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  #31  
Old 11-28-2009, 05:28 PM
Alexandra Alexandra is offline
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He doesn't "let" them disrespect me. He truly does not see that they are doing so. When I point it out to him, he can kinda see and understand what I'm saying but he thinks it's an issue between me and them, not all of us.

And as I said before, I think that if we can come to a mutually arrived at agreement that we are in a polyamorous relationship, then within that context, we may be better able to address and resolve these issues.

I'm not looking for guidance about my relationship with L. I was asking for guidance about how to help L understand and accept this idea of polyamory.


I don't even know why I'm trying to clarify this, since you've already made up your mind.



ETA Has this touched a nerve for you or something YGirl? It seems to bother you a lot more than it bothers me.
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  #32  
Old 11-28-2009, 06:53 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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And on the basis of a couple of posts, you've decided that you understand and disapprove of the way things are in my life.

Actually, I DON'T understand. That's what the meaning of "WTF" is all about in the first place.

And, (re: "disapprove") I SAID "different strokes for different folks".

However, I do think you are doing a lot of back-pedaling after Redpepper and Magdlyn posted.



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Originally Posted by Alexandra View Post
ETA Has this touched a nerve for you or something YGirl?
No, thank you.


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Originally Posted by Alexandra View Post
It seems to bother you a lot more than it bothers me.
I'm not one of your husband's groupies.


There was no hidden agenda, no dual meaning behind my last post whatsoever. I just gave you my two cents and chose not to sugar-coat it. I stand by whatever I said before. I will go one step further and say that it all sounds pretty co-dependent to me (note the use of E-Prime here and elsewhere). I have decided not to engage in a debate with you about whether my life is more or less "WTF" than yours because that is simply a red-herring.

I'll say once again that I find it a bizarre dynamic for someone to appreciate being disrespected because it is therapeutic. It seems obvious that you enjoy it, yet you say you have a problem with it. The distinction between whether it goes on in your home or not is aesthetic, IMO, since you say your husband doesn't even wish to recognize a problem or engage in understanding of why it is YOUR problem. I am paraphrasing, but your original words are up there if anyone would like to pick apart the minutiae of any discrepancies.

I have not violated and of the rules of the forum by what I said to you. I am not at all surprised that you received it way you did. In fact, I would have been surprised had it been any other way. I make a point to be as blunt as possible and have been told by others that it is appreciated. Of course I am prepared for the way I came across to be perceived as harsh and "judgemental", but if it is working out for you, it shouldn't matter what other people think. It makes no difference to ME what you do with yourself.

If you know yourself and what works for you and what makes you tick as well as you describe in your writing, it seems that you know the answers to what you need to do, deep down in your gut, and do not need strangers on an internet forum to validate that. You wrote enough that you have already given yourself the answer(s) and advice you need.

Last edited by NeonKaos; 11-28-2009 at 07:00 PM.
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  #33  
Old 11-28-2009, 07:12 PM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
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Some of the people who want, need, to experience this sense of being amazing are shy, awkward, needy etc. And when it's a woman who is these things, one that L finds attractive, who makes him feel protective and adored... well, then they start to feel Special and Chosen. And then when they feel Special, they start to think they might be More Special than the wife.

I am aware that their cocky disrespect towards me is often born out of their own feelings of inadequacy or low self esteem. And L makes them feel amazing!

I don't want to take that away from them! That's pretty cool; isn't it? That L can help them to feel good about themself?

I don't begrudge that, why should I? His ability to give people an awareness of themselves as extraordinary is a gift to be shared. And who needs it more than people who feel badly about themselves?! How selfish would I be to disallow those people from experiencing what L can give them?!

The issue - the problem - is that they carry that attitude into my home, and that L enables and allows that to happen.
I'd say that's amazingly dysfunctional. That you're uncomfortable with the disrespect shown you shows that whatever you gain from that whole dynamic is outweighed by the negative elements. I figure whenever you're truly disenchanted by whatever it is you gain from allowing this dynamic to continue, you'll finally take action to end it.

I just don't see it ending while you're busy defending it.
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  #34  
Old 11-28-2009, 11:06 PM
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L and I were friends for almost five years before we became a couple. So we've known each other a good long while

When we first met I was barely out of my teens (he's 7 years older). I was kooky, odd, fucked up. I was needy, low self esteem etc.

He was attracted to me, to my odd kookiness. I got better, I'm sane and well and happy now. So I'm no longer the odd fuck up I was when he first knew me. But he still has a hankering for that type of girl.

The girls he tends to choose are in some senses a version of the earlier me. It's flattering in a way!

He looked out for me, looked after me, helped me find my way to health, made me feel amazing.... and I think perhaps he is doing all that for these other girls. The difference is that I was young at the time, and I grew up, got better, and these gfs of his are still the way I was then.

My heart goes out to them, truly. I recognise myself in many of them. And truth be told, I was probably capable of the disrespect thing when I was younger too.
I had a thought. As it doesn't seem that he "gets off" on the fact that they disrespect you then perhaps you could be helpful to them too. After all, you have been where they are and can show them, tell them with your own story what can be accomplished in life and how they can gain their own self esteem for themselves rather on the backs of others.
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  #35  
Old 11-28-2009, 11:13 PM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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I had a thought. As it doesn't seem that he "gets off" on the fact that they disrespect you then perhaps you could be helpful to them too. After all, you have been where they are and can show them, tell them with your own story what can be accomplished in life and how they can gain their own self esteem for themselves rather on the backs of others.
I love the positive aproach to a negative situation! That's a great way to promote growth Lilo
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  #36  
Old 11-28-2009, 11:46 PM
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It sounds to me like this man did a good job rescuing you. You must love him very much for doing that. It sounds like he encompassed you with his appreciation for women like you and showed you how you too could appreciate yourself. That is lovely and very caring, but might suggest that it is time to take the show on the road and get out of this co-dependency.

This thread has turned into a concern for your primary relationship because those who have chosen to write to you are concerned that you have not taken all the steps to being self actualized. Part of that is that you seemingly have no problem with these women thinking they are better than you when it comes to your husband. No one should EVER think they are better than you. I am still concerned by this. Your husband is right. It really isn't to do with him and everything to do with you. However he is not being helpful and proactive in helping you out of these situations. Maybe because he doesn't want you to be self actualized as you won't be the woman he fell in love with anymore. Therefore he may fear that he won't be attracted to you anymore.

As a self actualized individual I would NEVER let anyone think that it is okay that they treat me the way you describe. Especially when they are friends/lovers of my husband. I can understand that people have esteem issues, I can understand that they think hes the "bees-knees", I can understand that they are learning from him, but they have absolutely no right to think they are in anyway entitled to him over me. I'm afraid that they would be pulled aside and quickly put in their place.

My husband and I have negotiated veto power for such occasions. If there is someone in our lives that the other has a problem with then we reserve the right to ask that they not be a part of our lives. There is time to this however, I would not simply demand this right, a process would have to ensue whereby I would ask (he usually sees it at the same time I do anyway) that he talk to them first and let them know he is not pleased with what they have said or their actions and this is what the consequence will be if it happens again. Usually it means that I will talk to them, or we both will.

Usually, at this point in our relationship, we see together what has happened or been said and address it immediately in the moment and without hesitation. We are very practiced with this by now. It takes time. We are used to calling each other on stuff and those that are close to us.

I am amazed that you have this dynamic and find it fascinating. It's almost D/s (domination/submission) to me. That is why I wondered if he gets a charge out of the women treating you the way they do. People spend years developing that in some SM relationships. The difference being that they have an arrangement that is acceptable to both of them, I am unsure that it is acceptable to you.

It's a shame he won't go to therapy with you. This is NOT your issue alone and you can do all the therapy you want, but if this is an issue that is keeping you from reaching your full potential then it will become evident and eventually it will be necessary for him to go if there is a hope in hell of the two of you staying together. His unwillingness makes me wonder if he is fearful or just doesn't want you to reach your potential because he doesn't dig women that have.

I wonder if you can take yourself out of the realm of whatever makes your husband such a celebrity and see this for what it is, two human beings trying to make their relationship work. It makes no difference what he does that makes him acknowledged, as a human right, you are entitled to respect. You deserve it as a fellow human being. If all of you were sitting in my living room right now and as I don't know who your husband is and in what way he is famous, I would expect him to treat you with dignity and respect. I would hope that you would ask for that and demand that. It's nothing to do with how much you love each other, or what is going on for others around you, it's a right.
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  #37  
Old 11-28-2009, 11:54 PM
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I'm not one of your husband's groupies.

There was no hidden agenda, no dual meaning behind my last post whatsoever. I just gave you my two cents and chose not to sugar-coat it. I stand by whatever I said before. I will go one step further and say that it all sounds pretty co-dependent to me (note the use of E-Prime here and elsewhere). I have decided not to engage in a debate with you about whether my life is more or less "WTF" than yours because that is simply a red-herring.

I'll say once again that I find it a bizarre dynamic for someone to appreciate being disrespected because it is therapeutic. It seems obvious that you enjoy it, yet you say you have a problem with it. The distinction between whether it goes on in your home or not is aesthetic, IMO, since you say your husband doesn't even wish to recognize a problem or engage in understanding of why it is YOUR problem. I am paraphrasing, but your original words are up there if anyone would like to pick apart the minutiae of any discrepancies.

I have not violated and of the rules of the forum by what I said to you. I am not at all surprised that you received it way you did. In fact, I would have been surprised had it been any other way. I make a point to be as blunt as possible and have been told by others that it is appreciated. Of course I am prepared for the way I came across to be perceived as harsh and "judgemental", but if it is working out for you, it shouldn't matter what other people think. It makes no difference to ME what you do with yourself.

If you know yourself and what works for you and what makes you tick as well as you describe in your writing, it seems that you know the answers to what you need to do, deep down in your gut, and do not need strangers on an internet forum to validate that. You wrote enough that you have already given yourself the answer(s) and advice you need.
Ygirl and I quite often see eye to eye on these things, with two distinct ways of "talking." I find that Ygirl gets to the point in a different way and can be very blunt. She does however, in my experience, get that way out of concern for others and needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Sometimes she evokes some strong emotions for people, and while they can evoke anger, I believe she does it with a bit of tongue in cheek and as a way to make people look at their shit from an un-sugar coated approach.

Good for you for giving her a good yelling at. I was beginning to think that you didn't have that in you and that you let people walk over you. I'm glad to see that my assumption was wrong Nice to see some strong woman in you, because by all accounts your situation doesn't indicate its in you, just yet.
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  #38  
Old 11-29-2009, 05:25 PM
Marcelo Marcelo is offline
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As Freud taught, there is no such thing as a joke... I chided him [T] for it and he excused himself saying "Sorry, that was a Bloke thing" or something similar. Actually, he is very respectful and generous about L. He has never pressured me or made me feel in any way as if L is a difficulty for him. When I ask him about this ability, he says "He's your rock, your root, you love him, you're with him. Loving you is about wanting you to have what you want, what makes you happy, and L makes you happy". He is not greedy or needy about my time, energy or attentions.
Unless I missed it, Alexandra, you haven't said whether T's situation is symmetrical with your own. That is, is T married or involved with a full-time partner? If so, how is T handling the disclosure issue with his own partner?

On the other hand, if T is not as tightly attached to a partner as you are, then there's an asymmetry. When a relationship is pre-sexual, it sounds reasonable to tell a woman, 'I'm not greedy or needy about your time, energy or attentions.' But, if and when the situation changes to sexual intimacy, a man who doesn't have a partner of his own to spend time with, is likely to become highly focused on you, meaning, wanting more of your time for himself.

In my case, the new relationship energy from corresponding with a distant, married girlfriend since June has gotten channeled into being physically closer to my wife -- hugs every day, more frequent sex. But, if I didn't have a wife that I love to channel this new energy, I think I would now be overly obsessed with my girlfriend, to the point of wanting to take her away from her husband and have her with me all the time.

My point being, symmetry (both parties having an established partner to rely on) can be a stabilising factor; whereas asymmetry in terms of existing partners can lead to unbalanced needs between the two new lovers.

I hope you and T continue to enjoy the love you've found. It has certainly transformed my life to find another woman, outside my marriage, that I feel so emotionally connected with.
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  #39  
Old 11-29-2009, 07:43 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Good for you for giving her a good yelling at.
Aw dang.. love you too!
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  #40  
Old 11-29-2009, 09:34 PM
Alexandra Alexandra is offline
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Unless I missed it, Alexandra, you haven't said whether T's situation is symmetrical with your own. That is, is T married or involved with a full-time partner? If so, how is T handling the disclosure issue with his own partner?

On the other hand, if T is not as tightly attached to a partner as you are, then there's an asymmetry. When a relationship is pre-sexual, it sounds reasonable to tell a woman, 'I'm not greedy or needy about your time, energy or attentions.' But, if and when the situation changes to sexual intimacy, a man who doesn't have a partner of his own to spend time with, is likely to become highly focused on you, meaning, wanting more of your time for himself.

In my case, the new relationship energy from corresponding with a distant, married girlfriend since June has gotten channeled into being physically closer to my wife -- hugs every day, more frequent sex. But, if I didn't have a wife that I love to channel this new energy, I think I would now be overly obsessed with my girlfriend, to the point of wanting to take her away from her husband and have her with me all the time.

My point being, symmetry (both parties having an established partner to rely on) can be a stabilising factor; whereas asymmetry in terms of existing partners can lead to unbalanced needs between the two new lovers.

I hope you and T continue to enjoy the love you've found. It has certainly transformed my life to find another woman, outside my marriage, that I feel so emotionally connected with.

Thank you Marcelo, this is useful food for thought.

After the drubbing I received earlier, I am now chary of giving any more information.

However, I can say that it has helped to clarify some of my thinking and experience.

I will say this: T has not said to me 'I'm not greedy or needy about your time, energy or attentions.' He has consistently demonstrated it by his behaviour.
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