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  #11  
Old 05-01-2012, 10:08 PM
ThatGirlInGray ThatGirlInGray is offline
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Originally Posted by PassionFlower View Post
Also, some grace would be nice. There are a lot of monogamous people out there who don't understand polyamory, and would be very quick to judge you, but that doesn't mean they're right. Thanks.
Well said! I haven't commented thus far, because I don't have any personal knowledge of the type of situation you're talking about. However, as I re-read this caught my eye:
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Originally Posted by PassionFlower View Post
He is definitely monogamous, and only wants to be with me.
Has HE done any reading about polyamory? It is quite possible to be mono oneself and be in a healthy, satisfying relationship with someone who is poly. I know later you said there was no way he'd be poly or "let" you be poly but I wonder how much reading and soul-searching he's done, to complement the work you've so obviously been doing for yourself.

If he's completely against you being poly and refuses to do anything at all to learn about this way of having relationships that appears to be so crucial to your happiness, then I would say he doesn't really love YOU. He may love the idea of you, or the person he thought you were or convinced himself you were when he married you, but he doesn't love the real YOU. And you deserve better than getting lip-service to "loving" you. I promise you there's someone out there who will love you for who you really are, poly, therapy, and all. Seeing as how, as poly, I don't subscribe to the idea of "The One", I would venture to guess there's multiple people out there who would love you for YOU! That doesn't mean it will happen quickly, but it can't happen at all until you take that step of not allowing your current, broken relationship to dictate your chances and choices for future happiness.

I wish you the best of luck in dealing with all this. I sympathize with the fear of not being able to know if you're making the right decision, and I know what's right usually isn't easy.
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  #12  
Old 05-01-2012, 10:27 PM
km34 km34 is offline
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I apparently feel exactly opposite most people commenting on this do.

If he doesn't want a poly relationship, then that's his prerogative. If he still has those Christian beliefs, then asking him to let you be with other people could cause some major psychological issues for him.

I think making a conscious decision to lie and cheat to your spouse is a terribly hurtful thing to do. Cheating when you get caught up in an unexpected passionate moment is one thing. Purposefully seeking after careful consideration is another. I personally have a zero tolerance policy on cheating, either way. Always have.

I think you are both doing things that are hurting the other (him by not accepting your poly-ness and you by continuing to disrespect your relationship with him) and it needs to stop.

Which is more important? Him or poly? That is the real question. It doesn't matter what happens after, it doesn't matter what successes or failures you read about, what YOU want is what matters.

You've said he's tried threesomes, you've said he's read a bit even if he hasn't done a lot of research, so he has made some effort before saying there's no way he wants this. Now it's your turn to officially decide.
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  #13  
Old 05-01-2012, 11:23 PM
ViableAlternative ViableAlternative is offline
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Originally Posted by PassionFlower View Post
And while honesty is a basic premise of polyamory, so is not breaking relationships
I think this view might be a bit misguided....

If the most basic definition of polyamory is "ethical nonmonogamy", then while honesty is pretty basic to being ethical, I don't see any way to figure in "not breaking relationships" as a "basic premise" of polyamory.

I think I'm ethically nonmonogamous. I'll end any relationship I'm in that is unhealthy and unfixable.

What I mean to say is, if you don't want to end your relationship with your husband, then don't. But if you think that you are obligated to remain in a relationship with him to be "true" to the idea of polyamory, I think you're possibly lying to yourself as much as to your husband.

The rest of what I'd like to say has been said by others, I think. I guess I'll just add that I sincerely hope I never find that I've been put into the same situation as your husband. Or you. It sounds very unhappy, for both of you.
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  #14  
Old 05-01-2012, 11:28 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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You can't know whether poly will really work for you or not until you try. But you CAN find another mono partner even if poly doesn't work for you... your husband is not the only possible person in the works with whom you could bond, I guarantee it. If you've been thinking of leaving for years, maybe you just should. It certainly doesn't sound like a happy marriage. Show some courage.
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  #15  
Old 05-02-2012, 02:48 AM
PassionFlower PassionFlower is offline
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Originally Posted by ThatGirlInGray View Post

If he's completely against you being poly and refuses to do anything at all to learn about this way of having relationships that appears to be so crucial to your happiness, then I would say he doesn't really love YOU. He may love the idea of you, or the person he thought you were or convinced himself you were when he married you, but he doesn't love the real YOU. And you deserve better than getting lip-service to "loving" you.
Thank you, this means a lot to me. I have thought the same things myself. He has tried by having a threesome, and has read a little bit, but not all of the books I recommended. The threesome was awful emotionally for me, and I realized that if this was how polyamory was going to look in the marriage, it wasn't going to work, largely also because he wasn't willing to work on things because he doesn't want to be polyamorous. I think at the beginning of the relationship we both convinced ourselves I was someone else, so I can't blame him for thinking I was that person, but I was trying to be who my religion said I 'should' be.

I have suggested he allow me to be polyamorous, including having sex with other people, and he be monogamous, but this violates his ideas of the sacredness of sex and the union of marriage. He says he can accept that I am polyamorous and bisexual as long as I don't ACT on it, but I just don't see that working for me.

Thanks for the encouragement that there are wonderful, loving people out there than I can have healthy relationships with, however that ends up looking for me. I am feeling better today and more confident that I will be okay and that I can take care of myself and love myself.
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  #16  
Old 05-02-2012, 04:40 AM
smokymtngirl85 smokymtngirl85 is offline
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Reading through your post & your response, you sound like me. . .7 years ago. My husband was never controlling over things like time & money was he was demanding that i be monogamous. We got married with me going from being openly poly to monogamous and worried i couldn't do mono in the end. But i loved him more than anything and I was determined to try for him.

I also grew up in strict religious upbringing. I to at one point openly came out as bisexual which eventually took me back to being poly. It was a VERY long and hard process that was FULL of mistakes. It was even harder on my husband because it meant changing or leaving me. I don't believe in divorce especially when kids are involved partially because of my background but partially because i believe when you really love someone you find a way and my husband also believes the same.

I'm not gonna say there are right vs wrong decisions.
There are simply the decisions that work for you & your husband.

What I will say is that even when it hurts the most, honesty is always the best policy because even when you doubt yourself and your decisions if you've been honest you will at least feel good about that no matter which path you head down.

Cheating should never be an option. Be upfront with your husband and say this is what i need and this is what i would like to do. And work through it, communication is vital ESPECIALLY in a poly relationship. If you love each other and are committed you can work to find a middle ground you both are happy with.

Perhaps the insecure one is not you, questioning life doesn't mean you are insecure it just means you are trying to find yourself and there is nothing wrong with that. Mistakes along the way just come with the territory. It sounds to me that he's the one feeling insecure and threatened. Its a hard transition to go through and it means changing your whole mindset to realize that just because your partner wants to be with another person it or does not mean you are any less important or loved or wanted or needed. But at the same time if he came from the same deeply religious upbringing, he may never come to terms with it.

Have you tried inviting him to this website? Letting him see what others have to say might help and at the same time he can ask his questions too.
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  #17  
Old 05-02-2012, 05:13 AM
PassionFlower PassionFlower is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokymtngirl85 View Post
It sounds to me that he's the one feeling insecure and threatened. Its a hard transition to go through and it means changing your whole mindset to realize that just because your partner wants to be with another person it or does not mean you are any less important or loved or wanted or needed. But at the same time if he came from the same deeply religious upbringing, he may never come to terms with it.
You're right, he is feeling insecure and believes that if I want to be with someone else it means I don't really love him or want him, and that he will be left out. He has a very big issue with feeling excluded. I am hoping that the counselling we will be going to to try to find a way forward, or if that doesn't work to help us end the marriage the best way possible, will help him to understand that me loving and having sex with someone else doesn't mean I don't love him or that I won't spend time with him. I have tried to explain to him, but he doesn't believe me or understand. Please understand that this is not because I cheated on him--I had been talking with him for 2 years about polyamory before that one night stand happened.

On a religious level, he may never be able to accept me having multiple partners. He says he is fine with me loving someone, as long as I don't have sex with them, but he's only started saying that since I said I am leaving--not even two weeks ago he was talking about how I can avoid having emotional affairs. His family is not deeply religious, but somehow he has become more deeply religious since I met him. I personally think it's tied into his control issues--religion allows a very nice illusion of control, with lots of rules to follow and prescribe for others.

I would love to have the love and knowledge of each other that we have, stability, security, connection, and live as a family with our children together, and also have other lovers. That's my ideal. I'm going to the counselling to see one last time if there is a way to have it. I'm scared of what might happen after I leave, in terms of whether I will regret it or not, whether I will find love or not, but I am feeling that unless there is some way to integrate what I want into the marriage, I need to leave.
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  #18  
Old 05-02-2012, 05:43 AM
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redpepper redpepper is offline
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Originally Posted by PassionFlower View Post
You're right, he is feeling insecure and believes that if I want to be with someone else it means I don't really love him or want him, and that he will be left out. He has a very big issue with feeling excluded.

.... understand that me loving and having sex with someone else doesn't mean I don't love him or that I won't spend time with him. I have tried to explain to him, but he doesn't believe me or understand. Please understand that this is not because I cheated on him--I had been talking with him for 2 years about polyamory before that one night stand happened.
Wellllll, I think you fucked up. Cheating was the worst possible choice you could of made if you had a hope in hell of creating the life you need with your husband. I had a big "bingo" moment when I read the above. His feelings of being secure, included and loved are where I think you whould of spent your time rather than going out and fucking other guys. If I were you I would stop the cheating now, never tell him about it, vow to never do that again (and don't) and get about showing how much he is loved, included, and secure in your life. Be over the top about it. Lavish the man with anything you can think of.

At the same time let him know that you will beging dating other men now and that this will be your new realtiy. If he is unable to accept it then he is welcome to leave. With all the lavishing and getting about doing what you need to do, in time it might just work that he "gets it."

I spent three years going at the pace of my monogamous boyfriend. You can read about it all over this forum from the time I started here until this past Christmas (09-11). I know something of where you are coming from. He is now at a point where he teases me about dating and me having sex with other men. I NEVER thought he would get there. He has because I lavished him every moment I could with genuine committed love. I told him every moment that I was hurting, but loved him actively with all my might. Ya, it sucked. Ya, I was sad, resentful, frustrated at times, but I did it and it worked. The thing is that I LOVE him in capital letters. He is worth it. Is your husband?
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  #19  
Old 05-02-2012, 09:15 AM
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Emm Emm is offline
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... it seems to me there are very few people who actually want and plan to live life without partners or lovers.
Now you do.

Hello! I have two male lovers and live alone by choice.
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  #20  
Old 05-02-2012, 03:49 PM
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CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
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I understand that some of what folks are writing may be upsetting to you - different people come at the same issue with their own filters and their own paradigms. They will give you their perspective on it, and you can decide whether it is something to take on-board or not...

The advice I most often give is that folks have to first understand themselves. What are their core beliefs and values? What things absolutely have to be in place in order to be content in life (because we all deserve to be content). Polyamory (the ability to love more than one, freely), honesty, religion, sanctity of marriage vows are some of them. Nobody should tell you what you should believe - only you can know that.

Just a little personal "war story" - I lived from my teenage years up until 12 years ago believing that monogamy was the only "right" way to go, while deep in my core I knew that it should be ok to love more than one. I also believed in honesty as a core value to who I am - I wanted to be seen as trustworthy and know I could trust others around me.

The trouble is, that monogamy/polyamory fight was so strong in me that I started believing that I was a very Bad Person. I stopped caring, and totally lost sight of my core values. I stopped taking care of myself, became depressed, and started doing dishonest things. I hurt the people I was supposed to be caring about the most. I lied about so many things. I also stopped caring at work - why should they want me?

It was a downward spiral that I am most certainly not proud of. The only way it ended was for me to reject monogamy for myself and really go back to working on what I cared about - which was honesty. The principles of polyamory - responsible, honest, open caring relationships - appealed to all of my core values and I realised that the only way I was going to live up to them was to take monogamy out of the picture and if that made me an evil person in someone else's eyes, so be it - I could at least start to live by a set of values I believed in.

My partner of several years believed that our relationship was at an end. I don't think she really understood why - I certainly wasn't in a position to educate her, with my own head being a jumble of self-hatred and loathing. She was a huge help once I started making my breakthrough - she believed at the time that she was doing it as a friend and that it would mean the end of us, but she cared about me enough to help me through. She knew in her heart that she was most definitely monogamous. So much of what I was saying while talking about my thoughts made no sense to her, but she listened, and questioned and helped me to find that inner "me" again.

It took me about 10 years to truly rebuild and put the crap that I had built for myself behind me. It wasn't easy, but over time, things have got far more stable. Those core values have become embedded again and I live my life according to those values. I will not compromise them again.

If understand where you are coming from, you have a fight going on inside you right now, trying to reconcile all the things you feel you should believe with all the things you really do believe. In my opinion, that is the first thing that you should work on - resolve that fight, and put an end to it. Maybe your husband can help, if he is open-minded enough, maybe you have to do this on your own, maybe you could use some professional help to get you the tools you need. I don't know.

But please understand that you have my sympathies and empathy for what you are going through. This stuff is NOT easy.
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