Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Poly Relationships Corner

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 11-27-2009, 01:49 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
Custodian
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: new england
Posts: 3,221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra View Post
But L tends to chose women who are often rude and out of order towards me. While I tolerate their behaviour when we are in public, I refuse to put up with in in my own home.

We have discussed this a lot over the years. If one of my boyfriends were rude to him, I'd soon say something, but L allows his girlfriends to disrespect me. It's very interesting, and there's much to discuss and explore here. I've certainly given a lot of thought to this dynamic myself.

I have never doubted L's love for me, his relationships with other women have never been the issue. I don't feel jealous or threatened, but it does piss me off when they are ignorant or cocky towards me in my own home! And it pisses me off that L allows and enables their behaviour.
This is categorically unacceptable. It's your life and all that, but these women disrespect you IN YOUR OWN HOME AND your husband condones it? I can't say I've walked in your shoes, but as a stranger with no vested interest in your personal situation, I would say that your husband and these women deserve each other, and that you deserve better.

RP, PLEASE say something.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-27-2009, 04:00 PM
redpepper's Avatar
redpepper redpepper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,634
Default

I'm not sure why you have called on me Ygirl? oh the pressure

Anyway, I am left feeling very concerned about all you say Alexandra. You say that you and your husband have had loving relationships before yet have never had sex with anyone that has come into your life in the secondary kind of way. You have said that the women your husband choices have treated you badly and you haven't really objected unless it's in your home.

If this thing with your T becomes sexual then it would follow to reason that your L would want to start having sex with the women he sees....

Major RED FLAGS with that one!

Sex will exacerbate them treating you badly and him not doing anything about it. I think you have some major things to deal with here. I am really quite concerned that if you don't deal with them you will end up being very damaged by all this.

I don't usually advocate therapy as I tend to think that people can work things out for themselves with a bit of guidance and good supporting friends, but this is huge to me as it is teetering on the edge of abuse. I suggest marriage counseling.

I would love to say that you need to stand up for yourself etc blah blah blah I am sure Ygirl and others will say just that, but this is a pattern it sounds like and could very well run deep. It sounds like both of you need some better ways of dealing with people in your lives and not letting them trample over you and run the show.

There is something rather sadistic in this whole thing. He could very well just be a bit in denial that these women are bitches to you or he could be getting off on it. If he is truly concerned that his girlfriends treat you badly and doesn't know what to do then I suggest that you have lots of things to communicate about and I would stop everything to reconnect in this way before moving ahead with T, but really I think that should of already happened and the problem should be resolved not repeated... it sounds like it never was....

It seems the bigger issue here is not T, but the relationship between you and your husband. All the rest is the same usual stuff that people who are trying to get a poly life going face and that all comes out in the wash one way or another when a balanced primary relationship is running smoothly.
__________________
Anyone want to be friends on Facebook?
Send me your name via PM
My blog
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-27-2009, 04:10 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
Custodian
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: new england
Posts: 3,221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I'm not sure why you have called on me Ygirl? oh the pressure



I would love to say that you need to stand up for yourself etc blah blah blah I am sure Ygirl and others will say just that,
Well of course I would SAY that, but saying that would be like showing someone a picture of a finished cake and expecting them to figure out how to duplicate the recipe.

To be honest, I didn't think you would say the things you said, so thank you for taking the time to spell everything out (even though this is not my thread). Hopefully it will be helpful to the OP and to future members and lurkers if they god forbid ever read the "older" posts on here.

I'm going to add a couple of tags to this thread, but I can only add 2, so maybe some other folks will contribute to that too.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-27-2009, 05:16 PM
MonoVCPHG's Avatar
MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: In Redpepper's heart
Posts: 4,742
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra View Post


You ask how T and I have re-connected after so many years. I'll start by asking a question of my own: I'm wondering why this is relevant? Especially since magdlyn has also asked the question.

.
Now that I have heard more about your relationship dynamic it is clear to me that my initial thoughts were not based an accurate assumptions and I apologize for that.

My immediate assumptions based on your original post? You went on line (probably Facebook lol) reconnected with an old flame, started an online affair, needed to justify it or find a way to work it into your life and found poly because it suited your needs.

I had no idea that your relationship invovled very close "friendships" on both your parts. I would not have responded the way I did in light of that info. Sorry for letting my mind run free

Because I am not familiar with this type of dynamic I don't think I know how to give advice in this. RP and friends have a much more worldly view and experience base to draw on.

Peace and Love
Mono
__________________

Playing the Game of Life with Monopoly rules.
Monogamy might just be in my genes

Poly Events All Over
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-27-2009, 05:49 PM
Magdlyn's Avatar
Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Metro West Massachusetts
Posts: 3,556
Default

Wow, yeah, this added info does change things a bit. First of all, you 2 already seem kinda poly in some ways, with these intense emotional relationships you both have w others, "loving" others you call bfs and gfs.

It's very disturbing he keeps choosing women who are dissing you. wtf?

I couldnt bear that.

I am not anti-therapy as redpepper is. My ex and I had counseling several times in our lives for this or that reason in our long relationship; it did help us get over certain speedbumps and deal w putting to rest certain things from our childhoods. (We never made poly work tho... but that's irrelevant here.)

The links I provided really spell out all the stages that a couple needs to go thru, all the issues that could possibly need to be dealt with as you open a mono relationship. It's great youve both dealt already with how to feel sexual towards others w/o jealousy, now youve just got the next step of actually acting on it.

But it's not cool at all that he lets his gfs diss you.
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-28-2009, 02:10 AM
Alexandra Alexandra is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 23
Default

Wow....


Um...

A lot of assumptions here, redpepper.



First off, thank you for your kind concerns


Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Anyway, I am left feeling very concerned about all you say Alexandra. You say that you and your husband have had loving relationships before yet have never had sex with anyone that has come into your life in the secondary kind of way. You have said that the women your husband choices have treated you badly and you haven't really objected unless it's in your home.

I didn't say that they treat me "badly", and I'm sorry if I gave that impression.

They tend to be cocky and disrespectful, to be sure, but I am in charge in my own home. When we are out and about, I don't feel that I have any jurisdiction (after all, they are independent individuals, in public). And actually, it doesn't bother me a bit when it's in public. I am strong and amazing, I shine and their light doesn't obscure mine. Let them have their moment.

I should probably say at this point that L is a bit famous, respected and admired for the creative work that he does. He is a public figure and I don't feel that he belongs to me in any way. Part of who and what he is, is a public person. This has always been the case, and I have always "shared" him with his public. Sharing him - his attentions - with others is normal. More than that, other people (men and women) feel amazing when they spend time with him, and that's one of his beautiful traits. I don't have any desire to curtail or hamper that.

Some of the people who want, need, to experience this sense of being amazing are shy, awkward, needy etc. And when it's a woman who is these things, one that L finds attractive, who makes him feel protective and adored... well, then they start to feel Special and Chosen. And then when they feel Special, they start to think they might be More Special than the wife.

I am aware that their cocky disrespect towards me is often born out of their own feelings of inadequacy or low self esteem. And L makes them feel amazing!

I don't want to take that away from them! That's pretty cool; isn't it? That L can help them to feel good about themself?

I don't begrudge that, why should I? His ability to give people an awareness of themselves as extraordinary is a gift to be shared. And who needs it more than people who feel badly about themselves?! How selfish would I be to disallow those people from experiencing what L can give them?!

The issue - the problem - is that they carry that attitude into my home, and that L enables and allows that to happen. And yes, it is (as YGirl said) unacceptable. This is an ongoing issue between us, something that we have discussed and argued, every time it comes up. I do not cow-tow to it, I bring it up every singe time it happens. He is stubborn, and he obviously gets something out of it, something that is worth risking my happiness for.

This is an ongoing conversation between us.



Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
If this thing with your T becomes sexual then it would follow to reason that your L would want to start having sex with the women he sees....


Major RED FLAGS with that one!



Sex will exacerbate them treating you badly and him not doing anything about it.

Yes, I have considered this. I agree that if he were to have sex with these type of woman, the issues of respect / disrespect would be greatly increased. And I see that there is potential for damage.

So I have to curtail and dampen what is available to me (the love and honour I receive from T) because L's potential lovers may further disrespect me? That seems backward, and horribly reductive....


Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I think you have some major things to deal with here. I am really quite concerned that if you don't deal with them you will end up being very damaged by all this.

I agree that it's a major issue, it has been for some time. I have told him that he has dishonoured me, and he acknowledges this.

However, it is not constant and ongoing. He is a good man, he loves me, he is good for me. In the main, he is respectful and honourable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I don't usually advocate therapy as I tend to think that people can work things out for themselves with a bit of guidance and good supporting friends, but this is huge to me as it is teetering on the edge of abuse. I suggest marriage counseling.
I've had plenty of counseling and therapy myself over the years. I am well, sane, balanced, happy, able to take care of myself. I've made an appointment to see a counselor next week to talk all this through.

As for marriage counseling... Hm... Well, I did mention it in passing to L, but the suggestion got lost in the wind. He is emotionally intelligent, but he's not a talker. I know him well (after 20 years!) and I have learned that he works best when he allows thoughts and ideas to sit deep down inside for a while, he mulls them over beneath the horizon, ferments them, until he arrives at a new place. He is able to take on new ideas and concept, but slowly, sometimes very slowly.

I am by nature patient, and he is by nature stubborn (similar traits, if truth be told).

He won't agree to couple counseling, I don't think, although it is something that I may bring up again.

We've come through some really tough stuff together in the past, and I really do believe that we can do so this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I would love to say that you need to stand up for yourself etc blah blah blah I am sure Ygirl and others will say just that, but this is a pattern it sounds like and could very well run deep. It sounds like both of you need some better ways of dealing with people in your lives and not letting them trample over you and run the show.
Heh... I'm not getting trampled, I promise

Yes, it is a deep pattern, it predates our relationship, for both of us. I have done deep work on myself around the question "Why do I allow this?" and - as I said up there ^^ somewhere - it's part of an ongoing discussion between L and me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
There is something rather sadistic in this whole thing. He could very well just be a bit in denial that these women are bitches to you or he could be getting off on it.
That's pretty strong, and a huge assumption.

They're not "bitches" to me - from where did you get that impression??

They are disrespectful in quite subtle ways. When I bring it up with L, he tells me I am being petty (although if I explain it in terms he can understand, he does accept and ackowledge my view...). When I describe it to my women friends, they agree that I'm being disrespected.

I'd agree that it's odd, and not right. And yes, he is in denial that they are disrespectful towards me. But I disagree that it's sadistic in any way. I really don't think he's getting off on it. I mean, I've given this some thought since I read your post cos it's a completely novel idea to me, and I'm not getting any sense that he's getting a kick out of it. I think he's just... well, ignorant.




Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
If he is truly concerned that his girlfriends treat you badly and doesn't know what to do then I suggest that you have lots of things to communicate about and I would stop everything to reconnect in this way before moving ahead with T, but really I think that should of already happened and the problem should be resolved not repeated... it sounds like it never was....

Well I agree with you that things need to be resolved before any new situation is introduced. But that's an ideal. As it has happened, T has re-entered my life at this time, not in six months from now.

L has recently realised (or taken on board...) that his current favourite, J, is indeed a problem for me. He has changed his policy with her. Perhaps because T is now on the scene and the stakes have changed; perhaps he has realised that her behaviour is problematic for me and he now wants to do something about that... I don't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
It seems the bigger issue here is not T, but the relationship between you and your husband. All the rest is the same usual stuff that people who are trying to get a poly life going face and that all comes out in the wash one way or another when a balanced primary relationship is running smoothly.
Yes, this makes sense to me. Of course the bigger issue is my relationship with L, I recognise that. And I accept that all the other stuff is pretty standard, and I'm learning how that works as I go along, and with the help of everyone's guidance and help on this board, for which I am grateful.

I knew before this point that any attempt at polyamory would bring up and highlight any callouses, glitches, swampy patches etc. in my primary relationship. The point is that I'm not afraid to deal with those things. And the problem is that it looks as if L is reluctant or resistant to doing so.

Last edited by Alexandra; 11-28-2009 at 02:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-28-2009, 02:17 AM
Alexandra Alexandra is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 23
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
Now that I have heard more about your relationship dynamic it is clear to me that my initial thoughts were not based an accurate assumptions and I apologize for that.

My immediate assumptions based on your original post? You went on line (probably Facebook lol) reconnected with an old flame, started an online affair, needed to justify it or find a way to work it into your life and found poly because it suited your needs.

I had no idea that your relationship invovled very close "friendships" on both your parts. I would not have responded the way I did in light of that info. Sorry for letting my mind run free

Because I am not familiar with this type of dynamic I don't think I know how to give advice in this. RP and friends have a much more worldly view and experience base to draw on.

Peace and Love
Mono

No problem

I did think perhaps you'd assumed a friends reunited scenario or somesuch. I'm as cynical as you are about such things


Actually, I've found your input very helpful, thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-28-2009, 02:31 AM
Alexandra Alexandra is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 23
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Wow, yeah, this added info does change things a bit. First of all, you 2 already seem kinda poly in some ways, with these intense emotional relationships you both have w others, "loving" others you call bfs and gfs.
It does feel that way to me. As I said, when I first heard about polyamory, it just made sense to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
It's very disturbing he keeps choosing women who are dissing you. wtf?

I couldnt bear that.
Yes, I have asked this question: of myself, and of L too. What do you get from them? Why are they attractive to you?

I think it's this:

L and I were friends for almost five years before we became a couple. So we've known each other a good long while

When we first met I was barely out of my teens (he's 7 years older). I was kooky, odd, fucked up. I was needy, low self esteem etc.

He was attracted to me, to my odd kookiness. I got better, I'm sane and well and happy now. So I'm no longer the odd fuck up I was when he first knew me. But he still has a hankering for that type of girl.

The girls he tends to choose are in some senses a version of the earlier me. It's flattering in a way!

He looked out for me, looked after me, helped me find my way to health, made me feel amazing.... and I think perhaps he is doing all that for these other girls. The difference is that I was young at the time, and I grew up, got better, and these gfs of his are still the way I was then.

My heart goes out to them, truly. I recognise myself in many of them. And truth be told, I was probably capable of the disrespect thing when I was younger too.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post

I am not anti-therapy as redpepper is. My ex and I had counseling several times in our lives for this or that reason in our long relationship; it did help us get over certain speedbumps and deal w putting to rest certain things from our childhoods. (We never made poly work tho... but that's irrelevant here.)

The links I provided really spell out all the stages that a couple needs to go thru, all the issues that could possibly need to be dealt with as you open a mono relationship. It's great youve both dealt already with how to feel sexual towards others w/o jealousy, now youve just got the next step of actually acting on it.

But it's not cool at all that he lets his gfs diss you.

Thanks Magdlyn. I intend to look at those links when I have the chance.

And I agree that it's not cool that his gfs diss me. Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-28-2009, 03:55 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
Custodian
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: new england
Posts: 3,221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra View Post
Some of the people who want, need, to experience this sense of being amazing are shy, awkward, needy etc. And when it's a woman who is these things, one that L finds attractive, who makes him feel protective and adored... well, then they start to feel Special and Chosen. And then when they feel Special, they start to think they might be More Special than the wife.

I am aware that their cocky disrespect towards me is often born out of their own feelings of inadequacy or low self esteem. And L makes them feel amazing!

I don't want to take that away from them! That's pretty cool; isn't it? That L can help them to feel good about themself?

I don't begrudge that, why should I? His ability to give people an awareness of themselves as extraordinary is a gift to be shared. And who needs it more than people who feel badly about themselves?! How selfish would I be to disallow those people from experiencing what L can give them?!
I'm sorry, BUT -

This is perhaps the most WTF thing I've heard in a very long time.

Your husband has groupies whom he helps with their self-esteem issues by letting them disrespect you? But since you have overcome YOUR self-esteem issues, this "free therapy" he gives to these girls is OK with you in public, but not in your own home.

OK, um, different strokes for different folks, I guess.

After reading everything, you have my permission to go have sex with your boyfriend. I can't see how that could possibly make things any weirder than they already are now.

Last edited by NeonKaos; 11-28-2009 at 05:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-28-2009, 05:23 PM
Alexandra Alexandra is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 23
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YGirl View Post
I'm sorry, BUT -

This is perhaps the most WTF thing I've heard in a very long time.

Your husband has groupies whom he helps with their self-esteem issues by letting them disrespect you, his wife? But since you have overcome YOUR self-esteem issues, this "free therapy" he gives to these girls is OK with you in public, but not in your own home.

OK. OK. Um, different strokes for different folks, I guess.

After reading everything, you have my permission to go have sex with your boyfriend. I can't see how that could possibly make things any weirder than they already are now.
WTF yourself, YGirl.

How very judgmental of you. You have no idea how my life works.

Every relationship is a mystery to those who are not involved. I've answered questions here as clearly and honestly as I can. I've given information out because I am trying to find a way to understand and work with a new and challenging situation in my life. And on the basis of a couple of posts, you've decided that you understand and disapprove of the way things are in my life.

Really, WTF right back atcha.

I understand of course that you're free to come to your own conclusions. But I don't appreciate this certainty you have that things are weird and fucked up for me.

And wow, gee, thanks for your "permission" to have sex with my boyfriend
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
boundaries, red flags

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:53 PM.