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  #281  
Old 04-22-2012, 09:52 PM
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I came by to get some of my stuff tonight and find Vanilla completely incoherent after popping too many painkillers. Yay. So I'm not moving out it seems.
You can be there for her AND be there for yourself. Don't let her manipulate you with her self-destructive drama. Get her the help she needs by calling an ambulance or taking her to an emergency room, whatever, AND then move out. You aren't doing her any favors by staying. Save yourself, too.
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  #282  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:04 PM
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BrigidsDaughter BrigidsDaughter is offline
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I normally wouldn't say this, but you two need to stop; take a step back from ALL other relationships - I know this will be hard on Vanilla since she is looking for something BDSM wise that you cannot provide - but you are both suffering greatly. If Vanilla were a man, everyone would be advising him to take a step back to comfort his wife after her miscarriage, that all of his partners would understand, if they truly love him. So I will say that and more; it was totally disrespectful for Chip to laugh at your fight, to be so disrespectful in your house, and since Vanilla considers him Dominant, it is your job to make sure that people who come into your house understand that kind of behavior is NOT to be tolerated. You were being petty by having sex with Cookie - who you just said a few posts back - you kicked to the curb. Why are you letting him back into your life in that way? It seems to me that issues surrounding him were the cause of many of your fights with Vanilla in the first place.

Please, take care of yourself and Vanilla before something more serious than taking too many pain pills occurs.
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  #283  
Old 04-23-2012, 08:46 AM
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I got quite pissed off for the constant feeling of "I wish they knew how I feel about that" and "that's definately NOT how I see things", so BU said it would be okay for me to join the discussion!

I am not suicidal or self-destructive. When BU said she was coming to take her stuff for moving to her mom, I just felt I couldn't handle it and felt a great need to get myself somehow numb. I took four painkillers, which is not much, but got my head a bit messed up. Whatever happens, I do not plan to take more. But even the idea of her moving away hurts more than knives in my lungs. I feel like she's giving up with the situation and just running away instead of trying to fix things, while I would do anything to make things better. Of course if she really decides to leave, I don't feel like I'd have the right to stop her.

Chip respects our relationship and doesn't want anyone to get hurt or come between me and BU. BU just doesn't know him at all and so she misunderstands him. He didn't shout, he just speaks with a loud voice all the time. I really have to turn my phone's volume down when I speak with him. He really approves equality, and just talked about how he can't understand how some feminists hate men - even I don't concider hate as equality. I think BU was already so upset she saw everything he said as bad, bad, bad. Chip is worried about our situation and is frequently asking me if BU is okay and how could we make her feel better or at least not worse.

I've tried to tell BU that if she needs, I'll quit seeing Chip and take time for just the two of us or anything to make her feel better, but she doesn't want me to. She's said that she would then just be afraid of every single person I talk with and also feel too bad about limiting me. I'm quite insecure and confused about the situation and don't know would it still be better for me to stop seeing him whatever she says, but I just don't know what the hell should I do. She insists that I should continue seeing him and I really wish I could, but also I would gladly remove a limb of mine if she needed me to. I just don't know what would be the best thing to do, and I feel like she doesn't know either.

So, as BU asked, we have now agreed that I will not talk about Chip to her, not even mention his name, I will not answer his calls or text messages while I'm with her, I will not ask him here, I'll meet him just when BU's at work or has something else to do and I'll answer her calls and messages at least shortly while I'm with him. It's difficult to me with all this NRE, but I'll do anything to support her and make her feel better.

And by the way, I, as many other people I know, find it really disrespective to keep chatting on phone or with text messages while being with someone else. If I spend time with someone, I usually keep my phone quiet and focus on the person I'm with and so respect the time he/she has given to be with me, like on Saturday my mom, whom I see less than once a month because of the distance. I do understand different situations and crisis, but if BU texts me constantly whether it is crisis or not, how am I supposed to know, when she really, really needs me to answer, if she doesn't let me know like "hey I'm falling apart and need you right know"? But then I will tell the person I'm with that we're having a crisis and I'll have to focus on that, and could we please meet some better time again when I'm not just wasting anyone's time by being there just partly.

Anyway, just wanted to say that there are two versions of every story and mine is that there's nothing I wouldn't do for the love of my life.

I guess I'll have to think about starting my own blog instead of conquering hers...
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  #284  
Old 04-23-2012, 09:09 AM
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Ugh, maybe I should give space to others for comments before I chime in? Anyways, I named her Vanilla in part because I LOVE vanilla ice-cream. Like seriously, best ice-cream there is. And the only perfume I've ever been able to use was a vanilla perfume.

For now we've agreed to keep Chip away from my life for as long as needed, because I tend to fly into murderous rages with the mention of his name. We also have both made appointments with our therapists and I hope to bring Vanilla along to my therapy session on Thu. Also, we've agreed to establish a sleeping schedule, i.e. no relationship talk after 11 pm, and for me to set down some ground rules with Cookie (so he knows what's going on and how he can avoid things getting worse through his actions).

Also, we continue working through relationship self-help books, going to dates for just the two of us outside the house, and paying attention to our sex life (trying to get some action at least three times a week).

Cookie

I feel very torn about him and also somewhat addicted. When I made the WORST DECISION OF THE YEAR and had sex with him in the middle of relationship crisis and Vanilla in the next room, I felt very unloved and undesired. I had just accidentally seen a lengthy porn short-story Vanilla was writing to Chip, and their sex-chat on FB. Did I mention we also agreed that I never, ever use her computer again, even if I have to do something which takes 2 minutes and my computer is buried under paperwork? I don't want to be exposed to their hot crazy lurve, especially when I feel I lack some loving myself.
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  #285  
Old 04-23-2012, 09:22 AM
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I am glad you came here, too, Vanilla, since it is good to get both of your takes from the situation.

I wonder, do either of you see the ways in which both of you are acting passive-agressive? And the co-dependence you both are contributing to? Does it feel loving to you? What about the constant drama, is that what you really want in life?

It feels to me that both of you have quite an unconstructive approach to any relationship problem. It's always somebody's fault. Sometimes there's a disproportionate amount of blame directed towards oneself. Sometimes towards the partner. Sometimes the fault is seen to be fully in the metamour. It may or may not be deserved, mind you. But it's not the most relevant question. Really, it seems to me that you, together, create quite a co-dependent relationship dynamic. Even without other partners and NRE and stuffs to complicate things, I feel you'd need some work on communication, confidence, self-love, and boundaries.

I actually agree with BrigidsDaughter, while I normally wouldn't say this, I do think it might be best to close things up. To build a really strong, stable foundation for the two of you. I mean, it seems to me that that is the first priority for the two of you? I do thing poly is adding a lot of drama, and it looks like you are moving to more and more unstable ground all the time.

Psychologist, the best idea in a long time.

Moving out, maybe not the worst idea. I do agree with Vanilla that it is sort of running away from the issues. Similarly is the suggestion of becoming (possibly temporarily) monogamous. However, I feel that somehow you need to get to a more calm and stable place, whether together or separately, if you don't wish things to continue as they have been.
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  #286  
Old 04-23-2012, 09:46 AM
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Co-dependence is def our poison. We don't even know how to fight properly. I mean, prior to Cookie/Chip situation, our disagreements went like this: "I feel bad when you do x". "OMG, you are so right, I'm a horrible person for doing x". Lots of crying and embracing ensues 0_o.

Atm I'm fine with a strict DADT policy. My fantasy wishful thinking scenario would be for Vanilla to run away with Chip and have as much fun and romance as she wants, and them maybe come autumn she would be over her NRE enough to start paying attention to me again in a way I would notice and appreciate. I don't want to now tell her to ditch Chip and then have this thrown to my face 20 years from now and having to hear then that I broke her up with the (second) love of her life.

And were I to be freed of Chip, I would have to let Cookie go too, and I have a severe case of "sad-puppy-must-save" whenever I think of him .
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  #287  
Old 04-23-2012, 10:33 AM
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But even the idea of her moving away hurts more than knives in my lungs. I feel like she's giving up with the situation and just running away instead of trying to fix things, while I would do anything to make things better.
I am going to be very blunt.

Vanilla -- to me, it looks like BU leaving would fix things. You two seem pretty toxic to each other. I recall the posts BU used to write. She was an impressively insightful, vivacious young woman who was full of life and ready to meet it head-on. Since you and she got together, she has doubted herself, felt like a super fucked up person, and let people walk all over her, including you. She has put herself in bad situations with people who treat her like crap. Her self-esteem has spiraled downward. Something stinks here. I think a separation would help. Sometimes people can love each other but still be no good for each other. It seems that you both need to do some growing up, while taking time apart. That's how I see it.
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Last edited by nycindie; 04-23-2012 at 10:47 AM.
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  #288  
Old 04-23-2012, 11:47 AM
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I think peculiarities of internet blogging are at least in partly responsible for my changed public image . When I started out, I was single, unemployed and very sporadically educated. I had a lot of time to comment on every post out there at length.

Nowadays I'm a super-busy worker bee and also trying to wrap up school. When I log on, it's usually just to bitch and moan about my current relationship status, at times when thinking about home life is interfering with work so much that I need to get it out of my system that I deem it more productive in the long term to spend 10 mins of working day posting instead of not posting and spending 8 hrs well, bitching and moaning inwardly.

So when things are unicorns and rainbows and rose petals raining down, I don't post. Which they 90 % of the time are.
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  #289  
Old 04-23-2012, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackUnicorn View Post
Co-dependence is def our poison. We don't even know how to fight properly. I mean, prior to Cookie/Chip situation, our disagreements went like this: "I feel bad when you do x". "OMG, you are so right, I'm a horrible person for doing x". Lots of crying and embracing ensues 0_o.
The first statement seems like the perfect non-accusatory communication. The second is where the problem comes in. Falling into a self-hate spiral any time partner brings something up is just unhealthy for all involved. And it is not taking responsibility of your actions, nor is it having good boundaries. Since if partner says "I feel bad when you do x" there are multiple alternatives.

A, you may not be doing anything wrong (you need boundaries to evaluate that). If you feel like that is the case you need to say that. If your partner agrees, they have options of either agreeing to work on their own shit (e.g. overreacting) or to ask you to not do x for the time being. Note, being passive-aggressive and trying to guilt you into not doing x anymore isn't in the healthy options of action.

B, if you are doing something wrong (such as breaking an agreement) you need to apologise and then either start working on your shit (i.e. not do x anymore) or negotiate whether doing x might be acceptable behaviour. Note that self-hate is not the appropriate reaction here either. Not only is it extremely unproductive, it also sends the signal "do not ever bring up anything I do that makes you feel bad, unless you want to spend endless time and energy to make me feel better about myself when in actuality I should be the one supporting you since I did something to hurt you". Not facilitating good communication.

Neither is it good to fight and treat each other as adversaries (like, say, having revenge sex, seriously?). Obviously fights/conflicts sometimes happen, but you should act lovingly even when disagreeing. It doesn't seem this is happening, rather it seems that the response to feeling hurt is to hurt back. You might want to spend time thinking about what it is that triggers that kind of an extreme defense mechanism. Somebody trying to guilt trip you (or you perceiving somebody doing that whether they are or not)?

Lastly, I'd like to say something about the lack of partner-selection-skills you both seem to have going. While you have co-dependence going with each other due to lack of boundaries, that is not as worrying as the men in your lives. They do sound like total assholes, and it is telling of worrying things that you will put up with that. It certainly won't help to build self-esteem.
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  #290  
Old 04-23-2012, 04:42 PM
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We just got off from a meeting with a crisis centre support worker. That was really beneficial, since we hadn't seen anyone as a couple yet. I was really surprised that Vanilla resents me blowing up her phone daily with 2481204 text messages, especially when she is with someone else. Since I'm a supertexter and have been since the start of our relationship, it had never occurred to me it that bothered her, because I somehow figured she would say something if it did . Also, it was news to me that my rapidly cycling mood swings and impulsivity frighten her.

We agreed to not do anything drastic before Vanilla has her appointment on Wed with her therapist, where they will talk about the possibility of admission to a day hospital. It would be really good at this point, because there she must eat every day and she can't passively self-harm through fasting or some other method. Also, I will take her painkillers away for safekeeping. Our home is still full of liquids for consumption, but they sell that stuff at the corner pub, so really no prevention possible there.

We are welcome to stop by at the crisis centre again after our respective appointments, and I think it's good until we can secure a couple's therapist via the Student Health Society, which is easier on the wallet than a private counsellour.
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