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  #11  
Old 04-13-2012, 04:49 AM
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NovemberRain NovemberRain is offline
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Two words: Al-anon.

http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/

You were quite right to not participate and leave her to the conclusion on her own. I'm sorry you didn't realize that two years sober wasn't nearly enough; and more sorry you didn't realize most alcoholics cannot drink socially.

If she can't keep an agreement about what time to come home; what makes you think she can keep any agreements or boundaries you make about sex with other men?

My heart aches for both of you.
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  #12  
Old 04-13-2012, 04:59 AM
amuk amuk is offline
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Originally Posted by feelyunicorn View Post
Best thing you`ve said all thread. The only way open relationships work is if the girl is bisexual and is bringing you in partners.

Good luck.

Edit: Alternatively, if you`re bisexual and prefer to be with men.

Edit2: Alternatively, if you like to be your wife`s cuckold/submissive.
Though I do sense some sarcasm I also can see some truth in the statement. Especially when the man plays the patriarchal part in the sense that he is the primary source of income, sole manager of the finances and household paperwork, payer of bills, provider of house and car, has all the debt in his name, handles most all family "emergencies" (plumbing, appliances going awry, car needing repair, daycare falling through, medical bills, wife's computer dying during finals), does most all the household shopping, is the only driver, and responsible for the yardwork and maintenance of the house. I'm doing all that while also working myself through nursing school so I can be a stable source of income to support the family into the future. Sometimes for all I do I feel like I deserve that my wife bring a harem of girls home to me on occasion...not that I have ever said so, or even really felt that way. What is more true, is that I feel I deserve my wife to be my harem (at least sometimes when I have the time) like she was before she knew she had me as her own...when she was being the person she wants to now be to other men (at least this is what I think she means when she says she want to feel like she's free to be whoever she wants to be with another man and how if I were involved she couldn't experience that freedom).
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  #13  
Old 04-13-2012, 05:16 AM
amuk amuk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NovemberRain View Post
Two words: Al-anon.

http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/

You were quite right to not participate and leave her to the conclusion on her own. I'm sorry you didn't realize that two years sober wasn't nearly enough; and more sorry you didn't realize most alcoholics cannot drink socially.

If she can't keep an agreement about what time to come home; what makes you think she can keep any agreements or boundaries you make about sex with other men?

My heart aches for both of you.
I've been to AA (and NA and MA) meetings and she's not an alcoholic in that sense...I've studied addiction too and she's not an addict to alcohol. She may have been a habitual drinker but not an addict (in terms that an addict feels they cannot live without their addiction or that they cannot survive through the withdrawal of their addiction. I know some 12 steppers and ex-addicts/recovered addicts/life-long recovering addicts will say otherwise. But, the feeling she deserves and occasional (every several weeks or so) is more of an expression of her wanting to be free to be able to do whatever she wants to do. I'd say her phone is much more nearly and addiction than alcohol.
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  #14  
Old 04-13-2012, 05:20 AM
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Re (from amuk, Post #6):
Quote:
"... in order to appease me in the moment was consciously agreeing to something she had no intention of sticking to."
If she was really doing that, I consider that a pretty serious dysfunction.

Re (from amuk, Post #6):
Quote:
"I fear the 9th week when I'm likely to hear that because she fulfilled this agreement I should have no problem with her getting drunk with her friends and coming back whenever she feels like doing so."
It seems to me that her getting drunk with her friends, and having no fixed time when she'll return, is always going to be a problem for you, regardless of whether she honored some other agreement. If that's true, then I'd think it would be better to tell her, "Well actually I do have a problem with that. I'll probably always have a problem with that, no matter what other things you've agreed to."

She may be in the habit of emotionally manipulating you if that's historically worked for her. I have to say, I'm uncertain about the idea that she's making great progress with this therapist of hers -- unless she's treated you a lot worse in the past?

Anyway, her sticking to one spoken agreement shouldn't then obligate you to some future unspoken agreement (which she chooses later on). You can't control her actions, but you can tell her when you're not okay with something. You then have to decide what actions on your part would be in your own best interest if she still decides to do the thing you've told her you're not okay with.

Can you be happy living this life with her, the way she is, and with all the work you have to do? If you can't be happy with that, then the circumstances need to change. Either you need her to change, or if she won't change, you might want to consider what's a dealbreaker for you.
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  #15  
Old 04-13-2012, 06:50 AM
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Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
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Originally Posted by amuk View Post
I'm kind of scared to ask for her to do things for me at this point because historically if she does something for me that I asked for afterwards she often feels further entitled and says something along the lines of "now that I've done X for you, you should let me (or be okay with me) doing Y".
All the other posters do have some good advice about compatibility and all, but I did want to call this out specifically.

She is not doing things FOR YOU, she is doing things FOR US, and to balance out her contribution of the household. My husband brings in much more income than I do, and so when he is helping me do things around the house, I appreciate it. We actually had a discussion recently about what would happen if my social life started > me taking on the lions share of the chores, and although he is usually way too generous and forgiving, even he said he'd put his foot down if that happened, which was surprising, but nice to hear he's making sure to look out for himself too.

It does sound like you have a lot of work to be done in your relationship, since you are scared to talk to her. There are a ton of great book and website recommendations available in the book/website sticky at the top of the forum, and I'd suggest researching and borrowing as many books as possible from the library as you can, which will help you learn to debate, negotiate, and make sure you're drawing firm boundaries and asking for what you need.
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  #16  
Old 04-13-2012, 06:57 AM
amuk amuk is offline
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Ok, I'm going to try to get this thread headed back in the direction I was initially hoping for. Thanks for all the advice and allowing me to vent...but let's suppose she is making gradual improvements...and I truely believe she is trying and having some sucess doing so.

So what am I to do in the meantime is what I am left to wonder. I'm at a loss of what I can be dong for myself. I have so little time after nursing school and all the associated work and I don't feel I can neglect the responsibilities I have committed to when it comes to being the provider of the family (I am like a father to my 6 year-old step-daughter). I feel I deserve a vacation but I have no interest in going on one alone even if I somehow had the time. I'd like to provide myself with some special treat if no one else is going to hand me one, but I can't think of something I want for, or can imagine, enjoying alone by myself. I'm no longer much of a wanter of things...it is experiences I now cherish and have a strong desire to share. Another love in my life would give me that opportunity to share experiences however it's a chicken or egg, which came first, kind of delemma...I don't see much chance of a new lover until I can get myself off this fixation upon this negativity I feel in my marriage.
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  #17  
Old 04-13-2012, 07:44 AM
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Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
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Oh, Amuk, I hate to say it, but it seems like your last post is about trying to run a marathon while patching a festering wound with hello kitty band-aids, instead of letting the wound heal before gently walking a mile.

The old "relationship broken, add more people" issue is at play here. There is no "special treat" no "tit for tat" that will fix this. Work on yourself, your health, your awareness, & your self esteem. Polish your hobbies, get a new one. Having that new special partner who makes you forget how crappy you feel about your marriage isn't going to do anything in the long run but help you decide if your wife is ever going to pull her weight, which should be decided ahead of taking on new partners. I will say getting a new partner CAN give you an extra excuse to decide that though your marriage isn't as rewarding as you thought it was, the extra happy can make it tolerable to deal with the current problems for longer than you would if you were monogamous and unhappy.

"Another love in my life would give me that opportunity to share experiences"

Well what are those experiences, and are those things your wife just doesn't have in common with you (ie hates hiking when you love it, likes 3 day music festivals when a 2 hour concert is your limit, prefers vegan food while you hunger for a thick juicy steak?) If it is the experience of love, equality, fairness - well, go reread all the things other people have said to you so far. If it's you just don't want to be alone in a tent with your wife for three days because you would both be fine with it, but it'd lead to at least a full day of arguing and griping about your current relationship, that's pretty important.

It seems like you aren't sure what you want, or what you deserve, or even how to go about getting it if you figure it out. Starting at basics is probably more helpful right now than trying to figure out how to build the Eiffel tower. You wont be able to get off of the negativity you feel in your marriage until you have a solid foundation. I know you don't want to hear it, but you probably shouldn't be worrying about another love until you get your own house in order.



edit: I imagine there's also plenty of conversation that could be had about this - "I don't feel I can neglect the responsibilities I have committed to when it comes to being the provider of the family (I am like a father to my 6 year-old step-daughter)", and what that means about your wife and her responsibilities. But I'll save that for another time.
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Last edited by Anneintherain; 04-13-2012 at 07:46 AM.
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  #18  
Old 04-13-2012, 10:42 AM
feelyunicorn feelyunicorn is offline
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Originally Posted by amuk View Post
Though I do sense some sarcasm I also can see some truth in the statement. Especially when the man plays the patriarchal part in the sense that he is the primary source of income, sole manager of the finances and household paperwork, payer of bills, provider of house and car, has all the debt in his name, handles most all family "emergencies" (plumbing, appliances going awry, car needing repair, daycare falling through, medical bills, wife's computer dying during finals), does most all the household shopping, is the only driver, and responsible for the yardwork and maintenance of the house. I'm doing all that while also working myself through nursing school so I can be a stable source of income to support the family into the future. Sometimes for all I do I feel like I deserve that my wife bring a harem of girls home to me on occasion...not that I have ever said so, or even really felt that way. What is more true, is that I feel I deserve my wife to be my harem (at least sometimes when I have the time) like she was before she knew she had me as her own...when she was being the person she wants to now be to other men (at least this is what I think she means when she says she want to feel like she's free to be whoever she wants to be with another man and how if I were involved she couldn't experience that freedom).
Yeah, I`ve run across this being a 'liberated' woman insofar as it is convenient and snapping right back into macho gender roles when things get inconvenient quite a lot. And you did forget the chair-pulling, and door-opening...this is sarcasm.

I am actually quite serious about what I`ve stated, although I realize I did it in a douchey, blanket-statement kind-of-way. But, it seemed right for the occasion.

It sounds to me like you`re simply a mono guy at heart who`s being taken for a ride by an opportunist because she`s supposedly hot. There are actual prostitutes available to you for that particular purpose.

Maybe if you slept with a bunch of steaming hot women you might stop putting this one on a pedestal along with the other chumps. If entitlement is Snow White`s drug, Prince Charming is her enabler.
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Last edited by feelyunicorn; 04-13-2012 at 10:58 AM.
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  #19  
Old 04-13-2012, 01:44 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
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I do have feelings that I deserve better and the best thing I can do for myself is end this marriage, but at this moment I'd like to focus on ways I may be better able to accept things as they are. I know the less I focus on the negatives in my marriage the more likely I will find someone else for myself to have a crush on, fall in love with, and/or be able to go out on fun dates with.
And who is going to want to enter into the icky dynamic you have going on? Please don't lay the burden on some unsuspecting nice woman you might date to magically transform your life and rescue you. Unfortunately, you need to rescue yourself.

Yes, you do deserve better. I'm sorry but it sounds like she is not the type to want to change. It's unfortunate that there are people like this (both men and women) who feel entitled and do not look at the effect they have on those around them. If I were you, I would: end the marriage (as economically as possible) or separate, look at what attracted you to this type of person in the first, and then work on those issues. Did you want a trophy wife? I have a feeling that things will be much better for you if you move on.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #20  
Old 04-13-2012, 09:09 PM
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Re (from amuk, Post #1):
Quote:
"I do have feelings that I deserve better and the best thing I can do for myself is end this marriage, but at this moment I'd like to focus on ways I may be better able to accept things as they are. I know the less I focus on the negatives in my marriage the more likely I will find someone else for myself to have a crush on, fall in love with, and/or be able to go out on fun dates with."
... and re (from amuk, Post #16):
Quote:
"Another love in my life would give me that opportunity to share experiences however it's a chicken or egg, which came first, kind of dilemma ... I don't see much chance of a new lover until I can get myself off this fixation upon this negativity I feel in my marriage."
Well let me ask you this:
What are some of the positives in your marriage?
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