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  #1  
Old 04-12-2012, 10:07 PM
amuk amuk is offline
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Question Dealing with my wife's feelings of self-entilement???

I having real trouble dealing with my wife's feelings of self-entitlement and all that "the universe provides" her. My problem stem from the difficulty for her to see how much more I have to work to get the things I want and "need" out of life.

I've gone about this problem in the wrong way for quite a while by trying to explain how I see the difference between what I need to do to get X and what I see she needs to do to get X. Doing so I was in hopes that she'd see things from my side and show appreciation for all the work I do and have done for many of the same things that she, in my mind, takes for granted because those things have been handed to her.

Now, I'm trying to make the change in myself do my best to accept her more for who she is and how she sees the world instead of trying to change how she sees the world. I know others have felt the way I do and am interested to find how they worked through their own issues to be more at peace with the way their partner is in this respect.

Now comes some background and examples. First off, she's a sexy/attractive woman who has had 100+ sexual partners and she cannot think of a single time she offered herself sexually and was refused (except for one recent time where she offered herself to her current boyfriend and he refused because he respected her and my relationship and knew that I was not yet comfortable with her having sex with anyone other than me). Though I feel I'm a sexy/attractive guy, most all of my sexual advances in my lifetime have been turned down. In her life she's had plenty of men buy her things and give her money either directly in exchange for sex, or in hopes of "buying" her off to have sex with them. In her past she saw little wrong with this probably related to being sexually abused by her grandfather, boyfriends of her mother, and other various men. There was also the years the was a meth addict, which is a drug she's completely avoided for close to 8 years.

Some current examples that I'm particularly envious follow. She has a psychologist that she began to see a few years ago when we had health insurance that covered that cost who continues to see her for free because he enjoys the sessions they have. If I want to see a councilor or psychologist now for help I would have to pay fully out of pocket (something that is currently unaffordable since we are both unemployed students...I quit my job about a year ago when I began nursing school and will be graduating as an RN in Spring 2013).

Her boyfriend, and other guy friends of hers (even a couple of the gay friends she has) will take her out to the bar and buy her drinks or out to restaurants and pay for her food. If I come along I'm expected to pay for myself and her out of my personal spending money which is rather scant (which currently comes from student loans and what work I do on breaks from school). When on spring break I worked almost every day to have money to cover bills and the mortgage that were due before our next financial aid disbursement I told her that I'd appreciate if she used that time while I was off working to get done some of the various housework things that we are way behind on. She maybe spent an hour a day and would sit and do things like play video games even when I had come home from 8 hours of work (labor as an arborist's assistant) and began doing housework immediately after getting home. When the car was in the shop for a couple of weeks she could call up her boyfriend and he'd be happy to give her a ride at just about any time. He's landed her money for things like the fencing lessons that they take together when I'm having to put groceries on a credit card because there is no money left to spend in the bank.

If I go on much more I'm just going to nitpick and ramble. I do have feelings that I deserve better and the best thing I can do for myself is end this marriage, but at this moment I'd like to focus on ways I may be better able to accept things as they are. I know the less I focus on the negatives in my marriage the more likely I will find someone else for myself to have a crush on, fall in love with, and/or be able to go out on fun dates with.

Thanks for reading,
- Jason
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  #2  
Old 04-12-2012, 10:24 PM
faraday faraday is offline
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It is deeply annoying when people don't see there privilege. But would you want her to not act on it?

I live in a triad and two of us are grad students. We are super tight on cash all the time when other partners come in to play there can sometimes be resentment about opportunities that one partner has that the other one or two do not. But that doesn't mean I don't want them to pass on things that are offered. It also means I want them to understand that it's not something I can easily access.

For instance, my boyfriend was offered a free ticket to burning man. Which is something that the three of us have done together for years. This year it doesn't look like we can afford it but he has a free ticket. Am I jealous that he was offered it? Yes. Do I want him to turn it down so all three of us can't do the thing we want? Not at all.

My girlfriend is spending the summer in Europe traveling from conference to conference funded by her school. Am I jealous that I can't afford to do that? Yes, very much. Do I resent her for taking an opportunity handed to her? No! I don't want her to NOT do something just because I can't.

My hopes are that my partners support me when I get a chance to do something they can't. And right now it might feel a little unbalanced but that's life. Concentrating on things being Equal gets you no where. I want them to be happy and that means I don't want to guilt them into not doing things that they want simply because I can't.

On the other side I feel like it's completely acceptable to ask for support when things don't' feel "fair".

Are there things she could be doing that would help you feel better taken care of? Have you expressed those things?
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  #3  
Old 04-12-2012, 10:40 PM
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redpepper redpepper is offline
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Have you looked at "the five love languages" book? It could be really useful in determining what your love style is and what hers is. It sounds like you really need her to do some stuff to feel as if you are loved, and she needs stuff to feel loved. You aren't able to give her what others can and she doesn't seem willing or able to do stuff so you feel loved. So what do you do about it? Well, acknowledging that might help. Perhaps having a look at the book will create an opportunity to talk about it more. Then at least you can strategize about ways that you can get your needs met and so can she.

My red flags here are the "free" therapy and the sex she gives out for hand outs. This does not sound healthy or sane. This woman might be the hottest thing on the planet, but giving oneself for free is damaging to the self esteem and not a way to be loved that is healthy... lots of work to do there and I wouldn't at all be surprised if that is the root of the issues... she needs a therapist that is not willing to just give her what she wants. That is really fucked up if you ask me. Something going on there I think.
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  #4  
Old 04-12-2012, 10:53 PM
km34 km34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Have you looked at "the five love languages" book? It could be really useful in determining what your love style is and what hers is. It sounds like you really need her to do some stuff to feel as if you are loved, and she needs stuff to feel loved. You aren't able to give her what others can and she doesn't seem willing or able to do stuff so you feel loved. So what do you do about it? Well, acknowledging that might help. Perhaps having a look at the book will create an opportunity to talk about it more. Then at least you can strategize about ways that you can get your needs met and so can she.
The love languages book is awesome, but since you mentioned you are a bit cash strapped at the moment, you can also visit the website and take the assessments there. You don't get as much information on using the results in your life, but it at least gets you the basics. And it's free. Then when you have the money, you can invest in the book to get the full experience.

Quote:
My red flags here are the "free" therapy and the sex she gives out for hand outs. This does not sound healthy or sane. This woman might be the hottest thing on the planet, but giving oneself for free is damaging to the self esteem and not a way to be loved that is healthy... lots of work to do there and I wouldn't at all be surprised if that is the root of the issues... she needs a therapist that is not willing to just give her what she wants. That is really fucked up if you ask me. Something going on there I think.
I second this. Also, I'm not well versed in the legal/ethical guidelines for psychologists, but I'm fairly certain that if anything other than actual therapy/counseling is going on, he could face serious consequences.
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  #5  
Old 04-12-2012, 11:50 PM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Hi Jason,

As the others are kind of indicating, what you probably need here is to figure out some specifics in terms of what she can do to help you get more of your needs met. As you said, what you've been trying to do is to alter her perception of things, but that hasn't worked very well. Let me ask this: If her perception did change (in the way you wanted it to change), how do you believe that would affect her actions?

When you know the answer to that question, you may have some ideas of what to ask her to *do* that would be helpful toward you being able to feel more accepting of the situation.

It sounds like you are in for some stressful times, regardless of what happens with your relationship, due to how tight the financial situation is. Even if you were on your own, then you'd just be dealing with the alone-ness as well as the struggle to make ends meet.

Do you ever worry that you might be enabling her in some way? What about the possibility of her getting a job, have you asked her about that?

As far as work around the house goes, I guess you should, first, decide how important that issue is (that is, is it a dealbreaker), and second, put your foot down in proportion to the importance of the issue to you. That is, it might not suffice for you to tell her you'd appreciate it if she'd do some housework things while you were off working. You might have to say something more like, "Look, I want you to (x) and (y) while I'm away. Can I count on those things being done when I get back?" What you may want, emotionally, is for her to just see things from your point of view, since then she'd help out around the house more without you asking (or insisting). But since she seems to be pretty thoroughly set in her view, you may have to settle for telling her outright what specific things you expect her to do. If she's at least willing to cooperate with direct orders, that may mean she's not totally indifferent toward you. But I'm just seeing that she might need more explicit instructions here.

It sounds like there may be a bit of a maturity issue on her part. That may improve over time as she gets older (and wiser), but maturity is a slow and painstaking process (and in her case, it may take her extra long to mature). So yes, you may need to be able to say, "Okay, so she's not very mature, and doesn't have an appreciation of the amount of work that I do. What good qualities does she have that attracted me to her in the first place?" Then, try to capitalize on those good qualities (and be appreciative of them).

Hopefully you guys can get to a point where you're really communicating (sharing) with each other, and not just arguing about things. Let us know how things are going, or of whatever we may be able to say that could help.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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  #6  
Old 04-13-2012, 02:26 AM
amuk amuk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faraday View Post
Are there things she could be doing that would help you feel better taken care of? Have you expressed those things?
I'm kind of scared to ask for her to do things for me at this point because historically if she does something for me that I asked for afterwards she often feels further entitled and says something along the lines of "now that I've done X for you, you should let me (or be okay with me) doing Y".

For example, I've gotten frustrated with her going out with friends with plans to get drunk and not come back until daylight the next morning. Why do I feel such? Alcohol used to me a much more serious issue for her (prior to our relationship being drunk for days/weeks) and presented troubles in our relationship when it came to trust in her. Like the time we were living monogamously and she got drunk and cheating on me with a guy lying to him saying it was okay with me. At that occasion she was hungover for days and then told me what happened. Then there were all the times that she'd go out saying she'd be home at whatever time at night and she wouldn't be back until the next day without ever contacting me through the night. Or the time on my birthday she went out for a beer with a friend at 4pm and I didn't find her until the next day over at a friend's house still high on ecstasy in the early afternoon. A point came where I followed some excellent advice my councilor gave me...to no longer participate in her drinking at all. A few months later she came to the realization that she couldn't drink in moderation and decided to quit. That lasted almost two years. Within those two years we got married. Then came what I know realize was a huge error on my part...I had never had any personal issues with alcohol abuse and had read how many people who were not full-on alcoholics, but more of binge drinkers could, after a year or two break from drinking at all, could then handle occasional social drinking (a.k.a. a beer or glass of wine with friends). I introduced that idea and we discussed the prospect over a course of months. And then for months all was fine until she met a gay male friend that desperately wanted a friend to go out to "the club" and get drunk with him. Suddenly agreements to be back at 2am became not coming home till 5am and bitchy drunk texts being sent to me when I ask where she is or what she's doing an hour past when she agreed to be home. I suddenly became the controlling asshole in the situation because I'd cringe when she talked of how much she was looking forward to or how much she deserved a night out to get drunk.

Ok, back to the example I began at the start of the last paragraph...so at the end of Winter quarter she was saying how she deserved a night out with her gay friend and the group of his friends that have become her's too. By night out she stated she meant to get drunk and not to come back till late the next morning. I told her how uncomfortable I feel over that whole situation and proposed how she may help me feel better about it if she makes an agreement to me to not drink for a period of time that she feels is realistic for her. We had recently worked through some serious issues I was having over her making agreements which she later didn't keep and then telling me when she made the agreement she was either not really being realistic of what she could stick to or in order to appease me in the moment was consciously agreeing to something she had no intention of sticking to. So this time she agreed no not drink for 8 weeks. So now 2 week through those 8 she is continuing to stick to the agreement and also not using the agreement against me (a.k.a. "I'm only not drinking because you want me to...because you are a controlling asshole.."). However I fear the 9th week when I'm likely to hear that because she fulfilled this agreement I should have no problem with her getting drunk with her friends and coming back whenever she feels like doing so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
My red flags here are the "free" therapy and the sex she gives out for hand outs. This does not sound healthy or sane. This woman might be the hottest thing on the planet, but giving oneself for free is damaging to the self esteem and not a way to be loved that is healthy... lots of work to do there and I wouldn't at all be surprised if that is the root of the issues... she needs a therapist that is not willing to just give her what she wants. That is really fucked up if you ask me. Something going on there I think.
To be clear, the sex for hand-outs is a thing of the past. The hand-outs in hopes of potential sex probably still exists to a much smaller degree than in her past, but I don't know of particular examples. As far as the free therapy goes, I'm reasonably confident it is just that. He's on the verge of retirement and was rather particular of who he took on as a client and now I don't believe he is taking on any new clients. I truly think he wants to see her be the best person she can and enjoys helping her work through the crap of her life that she needs to work through. They both share Buddhist philosophies and she says he's really good at "calling her out on her shit". For example, once she came in after smoking pot earlier in the day and he told her to never come into his office again high because he was not going to work with someone that wasn't committed to being completely present when in his office.
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Old 04-13-2012, 02:55 AM
feelyunicorn feelyunicorn is offline
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Originally Posted by amuk View Post
I do have feelings that I deserve better and the best thing I can do for myself is end this marriage
Best thing you`ve said all thread. The only way open relationships work is if the girl is bisexual and is bringing you in partners.

Good luck.

Edit: Alternatively, if you`re bisexual and prefer to be with men.

Edit2: Alternatively, if you like to be your wife`s cuckold/submissive.
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Last edited by feelyunicorn; 04-13-2012 at 03:03 AM.
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Old 04-13-2012, 03:20 AM
feelyunicorn feelyunicorn is offline
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Originally Posted by km34 View Post
you can also visit the website and take the assessments there.
I took it. Thanks for referencing it.
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  #9  
Old 04-13-2012, 03:33 AM
amuk amuk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feelyunicorn View Post
Best thing you`ve said all thread. The only way open relationships work is if the girl is bisexual and is bringing you in partners.

Good luck.

Edit: Alternatively, if you`re bisexual and prefer to be with men.

Edit2: Alternatively, if you like to be your wife`s cuckold/submissive.
She's not bisexual. She's says she'd be turned on to sit in the closet and peek in while I'm with another woman, but she has no interest in helping me find that woman.

I'm not bisexual but I have stated I'd be willing to try participating in a 3-some with her and another guy. I've stated that it very well may help me more comfortable with her having sex with other guys if I felt that the whole experience was something that she and I shared together and that it would be an opportunity for me to see that she can really stick to agreed parameters when with another guy. She has repeatedly stated she has no interest in that kind of experience. The reason she always gave me was that she would be too embarrassed to be naked/sexual with two guys at once (even though she has before in her past but that was back on her drug-using days). It is only recently that she opened up to me that it's that she feels she can be a different (freer) with someone else and me being there would ruin that experience for her.
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feelyunicorn View Post
Best thing you`ve said all thread. The only way open relationships work is if the girl is bisexual and is bringing you in partners.

Good luck.

Edit: Alternatively, if you`re bisexual and prefer to be with men.

Edit2: Alternatively, if you like to be your wife`s cuckold/submissive.
I won't go all out on this, because I guess my sarcasm radar is way off. So tell me that this is a joke. Please.
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