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  #181  
Old 04-12-2012, 11:38 AM
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Dream away, girl!
I will, no matter what you say, you buzzkill.

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I don't wish to take your fun away, but I do want to comment on the points you made. To a, I do manage to have my own space even in a two-people setting, there's no reason you couldn't. Obviously, Dream City is an expensive place to live in, so financial considerations might do the difference, i.e., it might be somewhat easier for 4 people to manage a house with 4 bedrooms+living room (though that might be a challenge, too), than for 2 people to manage two bedrooms (yet, one-bedroom might be enough for two to have private space, as it is for me and Alec currently).
Well, your current apartment is awesome for that, but most apartments I've seen are not. And I was thinking about the financial aspect as well, as in it would be easier to find a good apartment with 4 people having their own rooms than 2 people having their own rooms. But in a way you're right, that is something I could make happen while living with JJ, at least in theory.

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To b, I don't think that would be necessarily so. I don't know if I would be much help with that, being an introvert. Besides, JJ's needs for your company are one thing, and his needs for company in general are another.
There would be Alec, too, and not just you to keep JJ company at times. But you're right in that his needs for my company would still be there no matter what the living situation is.

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C is kinda sorta true if you wish to look at it that way. But d I don't completely agree with again. If we had two apartments between the four of us, it would be easier I think for the guys at least to have others (if they wish to) since I figure it would work fine for you or me to go and visit each other and the one having a date could have their flat to themselves. Besides, I'm not sure I see everybody being comfortable with having sex loudly if there are other people in the same apartment, whether it's two of us or somebody with another person. If there are four people living together, there's rarely going to be privacy for loud sex no matter who wants to have it; more likely to happen with two flats available.

No objections to being a hippie, though!
C would actually be a big thing for me mentally in my quest for independence, but practicalities sometimes come in the way of my La-la-land dreams. What you're saying about the loud sex is true, but what if one of us wants to have it? Will you for example just send Alec to our place while you're doing it with someone else? So in this case I only half-agree with you, it would depend on who is the one wanting loud sex. Besides, it doesn't always have to be loud you know.

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I feel like a total buzzkill always coming up with reasons why co-habitation would not work. I also have a suspicion that because I always come off so against it Mya will feel like I don't want to live with her, which is completely not true. Also, my own need for space is something I still sometimes feel anxious to express (fear of not being enough), even though I have made the decision to not let my fear stop me from speaking, and I am working towards getting completely comfortable with it.
I don't think you don't want to live with me specifically, we've discussed this so many times that your opinion and the reasons behind it are quite clear to me. So all is well on that department. The only thing I'm having trouble understanding is that how would it be difficult to have your own space while living with 3 people if you could have your own room all to yourself? I know, we've discussed this too, but I just don't really get it. In my head I would have more my own space in a situation like that than living like we do now.

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However, I feel like I need to express it any time Mya brings up co-habitation, because I don't enjoy upholding wants that are unrealistic. Thus, I don't enjoy reveling too much in how great it would be if I could live with her, because in the practical circumstances I don't think that will happen any time soon. I know she approaches wants differently, so maybe I should just shut up and not be a total downer?
I understand that we have a different perspective on wants. But these things are on my mind, whether I write about them or not. I'm not demanding or even asking anything from you that has to do with living arrangements. Could I just keep dreaming without any expectations that it will happen please? I did write several times that I understand this is probably not going to happen, so what do you want from me? To stop thinking about it or to stop writing about it?

The reason why these things are on my mind is that I'm thinking about the living arrangements thing constantly because mine and JJ's is changing all the time. I have to really ponder what I want in life and how I want to live. Even though my main concern right now is to figure out how I want to live next month and then again how I want to live in 4 months, my thoughts - quite logically I think - go to how I'd like to live in two years as well.

Well, maybe I'm the one that should shut up now.
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  #182  
Old 04-12-2012, 12:32 PM
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Actually there's still one thing I'd like to add. Even though I was talking about real people, JJ, rory and Alec, it's mainly because they are in my life right now (and hopefully will be for a long time) and it's easy to imagine living with them. And I would like it, I'm pretty sure I would. This next one comes with the same disclaimer rory made for me earlier: It's not that I wouldn't want to live with her (because I would), but... But basically, this is more about me than any of them. I'm the one with the hippie-commune fantasy and it can be possible for me some day. Maybe not with them, but with someone else. Maybe JJ gets a girlfriend he would like to move in with and the three of us could live together. Or maybe I'll find a 3rd partner that would like the commune idea and she/he already has a partner or several and I'll move in with all of them. Or it doesn't even have to be with partners, I could just move in with close friends. Who knows? This is my dream about how I would like to live. It might never happen with anyone, and I'm sure I could still be happy with different kind of arrangement as well. Or it might happen, because I pursued it, because I've been dreaming about it.

But it's my dream and it stays in my head no matter how unrealistic it is.
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  #183  
Old 04-12-2012, 02:24 PM
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I did write several times that I understand this is probably not going to happen, so what do you want from me? To stop thinking about it or to stop writing about it?
Yes, you did write that very clearly, and I didn't mean to imply or say in any way that you should stop thinking or writing about it! I was just more pondering to myself (out loud, or well out visibly when it's writing), if I should just try to take your dreams as they are, as dreams, so that I wouldn't feel compelled to sort of "argue against it". Meaning that I was wondering if it would be rational for me to change my own behaviour in how I answer you when you bring it up, as you have made it clear that it's just dreams for you. Sorry if there was a misunderstanding.

And I do agree that those dreams of communal living are totally realistic for you, and there is no reason why there may not some day be people with whom they can very well happen for you! You would fit in well in a hippie commune.

I am not sure if the need for space of an introvert is something an extrovert can ever completely relate to (just like I can't relate to being able to enjoy other's company for long periods of time no matter how much I might like to do so). But those are just our differences and differences is what makes things interesting, right?
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  #184  
Old 04-12-2012, 03:33 PM
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Yes, you did write that very clearly, and I didn't mean to imply or say in any way that you should stop thinking or writing about it! I was just more pondering to myself (out loud, or well out visibly when it's writing), if I should just try to take your dreams as they are, as dreams, so that I wouldn't feel compelled to sort of "argue against it". Meaning that I was wondering if it would be rational for me to change my own behaviour in how I answer you when you bring it up, as you have made it clear that it's just dreams for you. Sorry if there was a misunderstanding.
Ok, good. I'm glad we talked (or wrote) this through. I'm also sorry if I misinterpreted your words. Yes, I would appreciate it if you could take these things to mean they are just dreams to me and not argue against it. And if I start dreaming of becoming an actress or something, please don't remind me that it's very unlikely that this will happen. I want to dream and perhaps make the dreams happen in some form or another, if not in their original form. When I tell you about my hopes and dreams, it doesn't mean that I will do everything I dream about. But talking about them reveals something about me and helps you to see who I am. You don't have to either start arranging the thing to happen (=fix it) or make me see the light that the dream was actually quite silly. Sometimes I just want you to listen and take it all in, so that you know what goes on in my head.

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And I do agree that those dreams of communal living are totally realistic for you, and there is no reason why there may not some day be people with whom they can very well happen for you! You would fit in well in a hippie commune.
Thanks, I think I would fit in there, too!

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I am not sure if the need for space of an introvert is something an extrovert can ever completely relate to (just like I can't relate to being able to enjoy other's company for long periods of time no matter how much I might like to do so). But those are just our differences and differences is what makes things interesting, right?
It's not that I don't understand the need for space, I just think it's illogical to think you don't have your own space if you have a room all to yourself where you can spend the whole day without anyone coming in. I guess I tend to see roommates a bit like neighbours, they can also hear you through the walls and you might see them occasionally in the hallway. Okay, you see your roommates more than your neighbours but when it comes to your own space, I don't think there's much difference. Unless you want to spend all your own time in the kitchen for example.
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  #185  
Old 04-12-2012, 03:57 PM
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It's not that I don't understand the need for space, I just think it's illogical to think you don't have your own space if you have a room all to yourself where you can spend the whole day without anyone coming in.
It's so confusing that it's actually for once me pointing out that not all emotions are logical. [Usually goes the other way around.] Maybe that feeling will change someday. But I am also not sure I could live with partners or metamours exactly as I would with roommates.

I hope that just because I tend to think about things in quite practical ways (i.e. if I have a dream, I will think about if there's a way I could make it happen), it doesn't always come off as me trying to fix something. I don't think I would be triggered to that fixing it sort of mode unless it was something really emotional and involving me, and I am more careful with that reaction nowadays anyway. I do enjoy hearing about your dreams, of course.

I hate to think that I would come off thinking your, or somebody else's, dreams are silly. I think dreams are great to have!
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  #186  
Old 04-12-2012, 04:19 PM
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I hope that just because I tend to think about things in quite practical ways (i.e. if I have a dream, I will think about if there's a way I could make it happen), it doesn't always come off as me trying to fix something. I don't think I would be triggered to that fixing it sort of mode unless it was something really emotional and involving me, and I am more careful with that reaction nowadays anyway. I do enjoy hearing about your dreams, of course.
It doesn't always. But sometimes it does. I know it's not an easy reaction to get rid of when that's the way you've always done. I do try to remember this myself and remind you when you're doing it, and also not to take it the wrong way.

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I hate to think that I would come off thinking your, or somebody else's, dreams are silly. I think dreams are great to have!
I kinda got that idea from this comment:

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I don't enjoy upholding wants that are unrealistic.
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  #187  
Old 04-12-2012, 05:05 PM
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^I wasn't trying to say anything about this particular dream of yours, I just got the feeling that you didn't think it was the most realistic/likely? (Still, unrealistic doesn't make something silly, it's perfectly fine to dream about things that may not happen).

Anyway, I will now stop giving you material for procrastination since I know you've got a lot of work to do. Let's talk more in Paris? <3
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  #188  
Old 04-12-2012, 05:22 PM
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^ Alright alright. It's true, I still have a ton of work to do before our vacation. So I'll also stop commenting on this now. We'll be in Paris in two days, great! <3 See you there.
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  #189  
Old 04-19-2012, 01:55 PM
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The Paris trip was wonderful. <3 So much talking, touching, loving and experiencing. I feel like we took a few big steps forward in understanding each other better. That was great, even though some discussions were quite emotional. But I just love the fact that we talk about everything.

Today I had a discussion with JJ about Bob. I told him that I'm interested in Bob but I don't know if anything will happen. He was just as cool as usual and was glad I told him. He also - like rory earlier - said "go for it!". I don't really need to tell in advance to my partners if I plan on doing anything sexual with someone else (we don't have a boundary like that), but I like doing that. I like talking about things that are on my mind and Bob is on my mind, so why wouldn't I.

I might be going out with Bob today. Not like a date, but we do have some uncertain plans on going to a bar together this evening. I'm still a bit tired from my trip but if he says he's going, I'm pretty sure I'm going too. So we'll see what happens.
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  #190  
Old 04-19-2012, 07:10 PM
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Okay, plans got confirmed and I'm going out tonight. Yey!
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