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  #21  
Old 04-10-2012, 10:46 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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I'm straight, so I thought about a situation in which two bisexual men were looking for a female.

On the one hand, two guys at once sounds awesome.
On the other hand, it also sounds like hell. You don't get to know them individually because they want to do the dating together. You have to get to know two people at once, at exactly the same rate, while they both get to know you (who are only one person) and then you know they're going to go home and talk about you behind your back. Even if it's in good terms. And so the relationship will keep going without you, and maybe even evolve without you. And the next date, you'll be where you left off, but the couple? They'll have talked about it and might have made decisions and suddenly there are decisions that were made without you and you need to catch up again.

It's hard dating and getting to know one person. I would never dream of trying to do it with two at once. And I would feel like I'm holding the candle (being a fifth wheel) and they're the one on a date, due to their history. They'll share jokes, they'll laugh.

Dating is awkward, you make yourself vulnerable. The upside is, the other side makes themselves vulnerable to. But if they're a couple, they have each other, they're stronger, and you're not. There is an obvious imbalance.

I would only give dating a couple a try if they allowed me to date them separately first until I got to know them.

Not to mention, are you going to stop dating and having sex with one another if your third isn't around? Because if you aren't that's another thing that's unfair. If I'm expected to always date both at once but they gate to date just the other, I'm obviously being treated differently, and it's easy for me to feel I'm being treated as less important. They each have the right to be there when I date their other partner. I don't have the right to be there when they date each other.

I think a lot of women will be scared off because they will feel they have to do most of the work and you'll get most of the benefits. I don't know exactly what the solution to that is, there are successful triads but I think I would suggest remembering all the relationships. When three people are together, there is a triad, but also three couples and three individuals. If you treat it as only one couple and one individual, you're being biased.

I'm not saying, be absolutely symmetrical, I'm saying, be fair. Any woman you date should be able to see you and treat you as the two individuals you are, not exclusively as a couple. The more you make it a "we" and "her", the harder it will be to incorporate her.

Think about it like atoms. Currently you are attached, and you think of yourself as a new unit. You need to break all the connexions first, and then get back together and create new connexions. You can't just add the new member to the existing relationship, you need to recreate the whole relationship to incorporate them. Your couple will remain, but if you look at all the connexions you see it's not a big connexion coming out of the previous relationship and linking the new individual to it. It's two connexions linking each of the two previous individuals to the new one.
Actually, I'll draw a quick sketch.

Here you go, this is what I mean:

I hope this helps you out. Good luck.
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  #22  
Old 04-10-2012, 10:48 PM
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CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
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Unicorn hunters are never "exotic" in an of themselves. To be exotic implies different and unusual, and there seem to be many many unicorn hunters out there.

I can only imagine how daunting it must be to meet a couple and get a "take us both or nothing" vibe, no matter how nice the couple is. I'm not surprised that the ones who don't run a mile after seeing that are the ones just looking for sex.

I firmly agree with what others have posted - you really need to develop each relationship separately - she's not expected to fall in love with BOTH of you, but EACH of you, and you can't force that or mold it into being the exact thing you want.

Now, I'm not saying that what you are looking for is wrong - heavens no. But the stipulations of what you are seeking narrows the possibilities down tremendously. If you want to be more successful, then you should probably consider relaxing some of the requirements, if you can, or be prepared for a very long wait.

Are you involved with any local poly groups? Meeting folks face-to-face in a social setting where you can make friends creates a much more low-pressure environment where folks can get to know you, rather than being automatically in "date" mode.

I wish you luck.

PS Wow, Tonberry posted at the same time I did - THAT is explained so very well and I love the sketch!
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Last edited by CielDuMatin; 04-10-2012 at 10:51 PM.
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  #23  
Old 04-11-2012, 01:03 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anneintherain View Post
I don't think anybody mentioned this specifically yet, which surprised me, as I often see it mentioned on threads about adding another partner to an existing couple.

"we decided we want to share our relationship with another woman"
I almost went into it more but decided to just give my one-sentence answer because it's been said a gazillion times already, by so many of us, to all the hordes of unicorn hunters that come here and have the same complaint.

Every unicorn-hunting couple thinks they have exactly what a unicorn wants, that they are being so very ethical and respectful, because they've got something amazing to offer the perfect bi woman who will share in the beauty of their love, the sublime package deal, and yet none of them can figure out why they just get the users and flakes and people only after sex.

We this, we that, our dream, our fantasy, join us, complete us... bleh! Who else here is as tired as I am of repeating the advice to date separately? Who else here is as exhausted as I am by explaining the difference between three individuals in a relationship and a "Couple Plus One"? Anyone else feel like going over the whole, "there are four relationships in a triad" mantra again? For the eight-thousandth time? Don't unicorn hunters know how to do a forum search?
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Last edited by nycindie; 04-11-2012 at 07:51 AM.
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  #24  
Old 04-11-2012, 02:41 AM
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Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
I almost went into it more but decided to just give my one-sentence answer because it's been said a gazillion times already, by so many of us, to all the hordes of unicorn hunters that come here and have the same complaint.
I figure I have another year or so before I get burnt out on giving the same advice to people

It makes me wonder if a few more stickies should be at the top of the forums, one specifically for unicorn hunters at the least. Often people don't seem to do searches or read "links to other threads worth reading" before they post, partly because they think their situations are unique. (Nothing personal LC209)

Maybe a giant UNICORN sticky at the top of the page would help catch some of that, even the people who don't know what unicorns are should have their curiosity piqued by the title. I know I've seen a lot of amazing advice and opinions given on the subject here that would benefit people in that situation. Like I love Tonberry's diagram, that'd be the perfect sort of thing to have on it!
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Last edited by Anneintherain; 04-11-2012 at 02:47 AM.
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  #25  
Old 04-11-2012, 07:28 AM
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Alleycat Alleycat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anneintherain View Post
Maybe a giant UNICORN sticky at the top of the page would help catch some of that, even the people who don't know what unicorns are should have their curiosity piqued by the title.
Someone indeed needs to make this happen.
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  #26  
Old 04-11-2012, 07:44 AM
feelyunicorn feelyunicorn is offline
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This is exactly my experience dating women as a single man. It feels like women are incapable of making consistent, communicable decisions on their own.

And, it also feels like everyone is interchangeable insofar as what matters to women is what you do for them, rather than who you are.

Lastly, it seems impossible for them to say 'no'. 'No' to a woman is her voicemail. It`s always silent, passive-aggressive, No. Usually, immediately after she, unprovoked, has led you to believe it was a 'yes.'

My wettest dream is to sit down with a woman, without having to compete with 1001 distractions, with TIME, and comfort, and be able to actually have an honest conversation with one. But, I think they feel giving you their undivided attention and time, as well as access to their feelings is something you only do if you`re married.

Flippety-flop flop. O.C.D.

00000000000

I`ve just had sex with a girl last week, and on the same day she invited me to her home (we went to a motel). Does she pick up the phone when it was time to meet? No.

Then, she calls me and claims to have missed me terribly, and calls me by all manner of endearing lovey-dovey names, and we arrange to meet tonight. Does she pick up the phone? No. Does she return my call? No.

And this is someone I`ve already fucked, whom I communicated no intention to date other than a one night thing (though, it would be nice. One can dream). She was the one who started the whole taking-it-further, angle. And, she acts diametrically opposite to what she communicates.

I would have been happy leaving it at the motel. Now, that she planted expectations in my head, here I am losing sleep in anger. Which, I can only imagine is what she was after. How else could one explain her motivation in expending her own energy and time into leading me on without the slightest provocation on my part.

I don`t know whether the fact that this is not the first, or second, or third time it happened makes it easier or harder to deal with it. It really makes one lose heart.

-----------
All the flakiness disappears magically by two means, however: paying, or marrying. Which, to me amounts to the same.
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Last edited by feelyunicorn; 04-11-2012 at 07:59 AM.
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  #27  
Old 04-11-2012, 08:00 AM
feelyunicorn feelyunicorn is offline
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This is exactly my experience dating women as a single man. It feels like women are incapable of making consistent, communicable decisions on their own. And, it also feels like everyone is interchangeable insofar as what matters to women is what you do for them, rather than who you are.

Lastly, it seems impossible for them to say 'no'. 'No' to a woman is her voicemail. It`s always silent, passive-aggressive, No. Usually, immediately after she`s led you to believe it was a 'yes.'

My wettest dream is to actually be able to have a woman`s undivided attention and time for 25 mins., and a clear yes or no, without having to marry her.

Flippety-flop flop. O.C.D.

000000

I had a one-night stand with a girl last week, and, unprovoked she invited me to spend the night at her place (we were at a motel). When the time came to meet, did she pick up the phone? No. Then a week later, she calls me, showering me with lovey-dovey endearments, and we arrange to meet tonight. Does she pick up the phone? No. Does she return my call? No.

So, here I am again, talking to a voicemail with the feeling she`s not going to respond, absolutely clueless as to what might have changed in the past few hours since we decided to meet, until now. And, losing sleep over it in anger.

Which, in the final analysis, is probably her motivation. Why would she actually expend energy and time into me without my prompting, only to leave me hanging if not for some sick (and, all the sicker because of how petty it is) power game?

I don`t know if the fact that this isn`t the first, or second, or third time it`s happened makes it easier or harder to deal with.

-----------
All the flakiness disappears magically by two means, however: paying, or marrying. Which, to me amounts to the same. As, I`ve done both.
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Last edited by feelyunicorn; 04-11-2012 at 08:31 AM.
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  #28  
Old 04-11-2012, 08:20 AM
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Alleycat Alleycat is offline
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Never lose heart.

Plenty of ladies out there prefer the straight up honest yes/no situation, but I find its dependant on age group;

24> : flaky, confused, dramatic, and frankly unsure of what is it is that they are actually looking for.

25< : Significantly less bullshit (normally), clear boundaries and expectations, both of which are clearly defined as "hardline" or "open to negotiation".

I have no idea why that particular chronological spot seems to make the difference, but in my experience its a consistently observable phenomenon.
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  #29  
Old 04-11-2012, 08:28 AM
feelyunicorn feelyunicorn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleycat View Post
Never lose heart.

Plenty of ladies out there prefer the straight up honest yes/no situation, but I find its dependant on age group;

24> : flaky, confused, dramatic, and frankly unsure of what is it is that they are actually looking for.

25< : Significantly less bullshit (normally), clear boundaries and expectations, both of which are clearly defined as "hardline" or "open to negotiation".

I have no idea why that particular chronological spot seems to make the difference, but in my experience its a consistently observable phenomenon.
Thanks for the word of encouragement. But, I would place that chronology way later than you.

I seem to think that it isn`t until after a woman has raised her children, and is into menopause, than she starts being able to make independent, clear, communicable, decisions.

What I see as an observable phenomenon is:

25 and under --- attention-whore; that includes, nagging, flaking, cockteasing, shit tests, etc.

25-28 --- gold-digging;

28-40 --- biological-clock bridezilla;

If it weren`t for cougars, I don`t think college age boys would survive.
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  #30  
Old 04-11-2012, 08:39 AM
km34 km34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleycat View Post
24> : flaky, confused, dramatic, and frankly unsure of what is it is that they are actually looking for.

25< : Significantly less bullshit (normally), clear boundaries and expectations, both of which are clearly defined as "hardline" or "open to negotiation".

I have no idea why that particular chronological spot seems to make the difference, but in my experience its a consistently observable phenomenon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by feelyunicorn View Post
25 and under --- attention-whore; that includes, nagging, flaking, cockteasing, shit tests, etc.

25-28 --- gold-digging;

28-40 --- biological-clock bridezilla;
So according to you two, I am flaky, confused, dramatic, all around unsure, attention-whore, nagger, and a cockteaser. At least. Possibly more terrible attributes could be assigned to me just because I fall in the "under 25" category. I am sooooo glad you shared this information with me! I thought I was a reliable person, as anti-drama as feasible - I may give you unsure, I am still exploring my options and discovering what life has to offer - supportive, straightforward person. My bad. I can't be any of that until I hit menopause. And after raising the children that I am 98% certain I won't/can't have.

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