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  #11  
Old 04-04-2012, 04:44 PM
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Feelings are fine, but I see nothing wrong with commitments either. That being said, the commitment doesn't have to be formalized into a marriage. I think the nature of the commitment should depend on what's on the table, if you will.
Actually, I do really want to be married someday. One thing that's painful to me is that if I end up with two co-primaries, that I won't be able to marry them both. If I ever end up having feelings for someone other than my spouse, I think I'd like to keep it at romantic friendship, or something casual...I don't really like the idea of a long-term "secondary", because it feels like half-assed commitment.
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  #12  
Old 04-04-2012, 07:37 PM
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Just a comment on this - why do you feel the need to be legally married? Some folks do have lots of good reasons why, some do it because they feel it's the "highest form of commitment".

You can't legally marry more than one, but you can enter into all sorts of contractual agreements that give most of the trappings of marriage.

There is a long way between marriage and the person being a secondary that the law can't touch anyone on.
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  #13  
Old 04-04-2012, 07:44 PM
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I haven't persuaded anyone who's monogamous to become poly, but I still like getting them to think a bit atleast (and I have managed that).
I agree - I'm not in this world to try to convince someone to change their feelings about something they want to do in their own lives because I respect their choices. However, this is about finding acceptance of our way of thinking, while allowing folks to be monogamous if they desire, is it not?
Aye.

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Seriously, what is so "different" about romantic love vs. the more platonic kind, -especially- if sexuality isn't involved? Actually that bring up a question; can romantic love truly be removed entirely from sexuality? I wonder...
A question I have asked quite a few folks, and the usual answer is "I don't know, it just IS".
A weak argument if ever I saw one, laugh :-).

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Trying to apply logic to discussions about matters of the heart is often futile, in my experience.
Well, like you said, this isn't really about persuading anyone that poly is for them, it's just about persuading them that poly can work for some people; and in that, I think, I've made some headway atleast :-p.
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  #14  
Old 04-04-2012, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott View Post
Feelings are fine, but I see nothing wrong with commitments either. That being said, the commitment doesn't have to be formalized into a marriage. I think the nature of the commitment should depend on what's on the table, if you will.
Actually, I do really want to be married someday. One thing that's painful to me is that if I end up with two co-primaries, that I won't be able to marry them both.
I hear you. I think that this is a dilemna that many poly people with more then one serious relationship face. That being said, I will follow my heart.

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Originally Posted by StarTeddy View Post
If I ever end up having feelings for someone other than my spouse, I think I'd like to keep it at romantic friendship, or something casual...I don't really like the idea of a long-term "secondary", because it feels like half-assed commitment.
I don't think it has to be that way. Also, I would never trust things to remain the same. Let me give you a fictional example:

I marry Lisa, but then get into a serious relationship with Kim. Lisa starts seeing Phillip and Kim starts seeing Nonamebrand (sorry, that's an inside joke :-)). So let's say that Lisa is my primary and Kim is my secondary. Phillip would be Lisa's secondary, and Nonamebrand becomes Kim's primary. Things can change. Lisa may decide she wants to spend more time with Phillip then with me; I may in essence be bumped to secondary even though (officially through marriage) I would be seen as "primary". Kim, meanwhile, may find that she likes me more then Nonamebrand. So, do me and Lisa divorce and marry our new primaries? Maybe, if it's worth the hassle. That's just the way life goes. Personally, I believe there will come a day when you can marry more the one person; there are ways around things like getting visitation rights at hospitals or what not, but it'd be the simplest solution in my view.
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Old 04-04-2012, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
Just a comment on this - why do you feel the need to be legally married? Some folks do have lots of good reasons why, some do it because they feel it's the "highest form of commitment".

You can't legally marry more than one, but you can enter into all sorts of contractual agreements that give most of the trappings of marriage.
Yeah, that's what I meant when I said that you can work around only being able to marry one person.

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There is a long way between marriage and the person being a secondary that the law can't touch anyone on.
What do you mean by this?
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  #16  
Old 04-05-2012, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
Just a comment on this - why do you feel the need to be legally married? Some folks do have lots of good reasons why, some do it because they feel it's the "highest form of commitment".

You can't legally marry more than one, but you can enter into all sorts of contractual agreements that give most of the trappings of marriage.
I hold marriage in pretty high esteem. I think it's one thing to be in a long-term relationship, but to be MARRIED, to declare yourself in front of friends and family, and legally too, that's like "the final frontier". I don't consider divorce as an option for myself, so if I marry someone, I intend it to last for the rest of my life.

And yeah, I guess there are ways around it...I remember a book that was published to help gay couples create legal bonds that are similar to marriage (I think that the legal benefits of marriage are very important)...if I'm ever in that situation I guess I'd do that, but a marriage license would be so much less hassle (and less expensive too). But I guess that's the cost of being alive now and not 100 years in the future.

Last edited by StarTeddy; 04-05-2012 at 03:04 AM. Reason: I really should proofread my posts more.
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  #17  
Old 04-05-2012, 02:08 PM
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OK, so here goes - my opinions, for what they are worth.

Some people see legal marriage as the highest form of commitment to a relationship. I see it as a legal document and nothing more. It has nothing to do with a degree of commitment or how much I love someone. I can be just as committed to my partner without a legal document saying so. If we have trust in our relationship and believe the promises that we made each other, then no government-sanctioned document is going to change that for the better or worse.

The other problem is that if legal marriage is seen as the highest form of commitment, and while the laws stay the way they are today (each person can only have one legal spouse), then by definition this is going to be ranking your poly relationships by setting one automatically above all the others.

So, for me, there are a large number of highly effective and desirable relationship options between having someone as a secondary and being legally married - it's more than possible to have multi-primaries, in the case of poly families living together. Even with secondary relationships, there can be a high level of commitment to the relationship without the sharing of the day-to-day running of a house.

I don't feel the need to have a formal ceremony to show family and friends how much I am committed to the ones I love in my life - they see that in the every day interactions. Commitments I make with my partners are between my partners, and I don't fell the need to share the making of those with my family or friends.

I'm not suggesting that anyone else should feel this way - just putting it out there as a different way of thinking than the standard that society tends to present us with.
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  #18  
Old 04-05-2012, 03:41 PM
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Given the things I've read and pondered for a while now, I sometimes wish I had not gotten legally married. I am more for civil unions or domestic partnerships which can include more than one person of whatever gender, and hope that that becomes normal soon. In the mean time, I'm realizing I'd prefer to have a cultural ceremony and ignore the legal "marriage license" (why should the government "allow" me to marry my love?), but sometimes things happen on default because that's what normal people in society do if they don't think about things thoroughly, especially when they're young. Honestly, the biggest benefit to legal marriage that I've seen so far is the tax deductions, but I could have gotten most of them (and maybe more) filing as head of household (because of the kids) and he filing as single. (Yeah, in my day job I'm an accountant).

That being said, legal marriage is default for acknowledging the parentage of children, so, in the instance that there was a pregnancy between Guy and another woman, I'd prefer to divorce him (on paper, anyway ) and the two of them get married legally, so there are protections in place for her and any children. (I can't have any more, I've been "fixed" ).

I think somehow we just got off the original topic of labels. So I have a question on labeling - what exactly does fluid bonding mean, and entail? Is it just practicing safe sex? And how does it differ in male/male, male/female and female/female relationships? Wouldn't open mouth kissing be essentially fluid? Or does it only refer to "sexual fluids"? And does that mean just the commingling of sexual fluids (cumming in a vagina without a condom) or any contact with sexual fluids (hand job or mutual masturbation without a condom or gloves)? Thanks!
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  #19  
Old 04-05-2012, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Eslynne View Post
I think somehow we just got off the original topic of labels. So I have a question on labeling - what exactly does fluid bonding mean, and entail? Is it just practicing safe sex? And how does it differ in male/male, male/female and female/female relationships? Wouldn't open mouth kissing be essentially fluid? Or does it only refer to "sexual fluids"? And does that mean just the commingling of sexual fluids (cumming in a vagina without a condom) or any contact with sexual fluids (hand job or mutual masturbation without a condom or gloves)? Thanks!
Have you done any searches here? There may be a definition of fluid bonding in our glossary. There is also a very informative thread about it here: fluid bonding/bareback
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  #20  
Old 04-07-2012, 12:45 PM
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Thanks for the link!
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