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  #41  
Old 02-14-2012, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
KM,

What kind of discussions were you hoping to spark? I thought it was interesting. Were you hoping for more discussion of how poly marriages might fit into a Christian context? I'm not Christian but that would have been intriguing.
Well, Christianity finds its source in the Bible, in the New Testament.

First, the New Testament doesn't go a lot into marriage. Paul wrote a lot about it, but he was one man - a man who didn't marry. Peter was married but didn't write about it and the dynamics of his marriage weren't discussed. The ancients didn't discuss marriage. Perhaps more than anything else that points out that they were sensible, didn't want any fights on their hands, didn't want any negative feedback - that a person may be an ignorant backwater primitive but still have good sense and be very smart.

I think the answer is Paul and his writings. He tried to spread Christianity to the Gentiles, the non-Jews. Non-Christian archelology indicates that the ancients practiced polygamy, homosexuality and other things all over the place. As far as Jews are concerned they practiced monogamy usually only because they couldn't afford more than one wife.

One culture and another, one era and another - seems like mixing them or connecting them seems like a wrong fork in the path. But maybe i'm being a little hasty.
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Last edited by catbird; 02-14-2012 at 10:46 AM.
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  #42  
Old 04-01-2012, 03:21 AM
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Here's an interesting article regarding christian marriage. It may not be completely accurate in some respects, but I thought it was definitely very educational...

Captive Virgins, Polygamy, Sex Slaves: What Marriage Would Look Like if We Actually Followed the Bible
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  #43  
Old 04-01-2012, 11:09 AM
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the article cited here errs actually, on at least eleven counts. To start with there are fewer than 300 Christian denominations anymore. Let me cut to the chase. The above writer QUIT worshiping how he used to worship, he's mad at Christians and seeking to put Christianity in as poor a light as he possibly can.

As far as Christians are concerned they've been in business for 2,000 years. Does anyone actually imagine they didn't ALREADY explore, and explore thoroughly, all the sexual combinations and elaborations this site talks about?

Of course they did, and of course they have. And of course they don't care whether it's cool or not. It's not a matter of what outsiders accept. Behind closed doors means behind locked doors.
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  #44  
Old 04-01-2012, 05:11 PM
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the article cited here errs actually, on at least eleven counts. To start with there are fewer than 300 Christian denominations anymore.
I'll take your word for it...

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Let me cut to the chase. The above writer QUIT worshiping how he used to worship, he's mad at Christians and seeking to put Christianity in as poor a light as he possibly can.
Could it not be that it's simply how he sees christianity? I'm not saying that he's necessarily right on all counts, but I don't think that assuming that what he wrote is based solely on his disposition towards christianity is the best course of action.

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As far as Christians are concerned they've been in business for 2,000 years. Does anyone actually imagine they didn't ALREADY explore, and explore thoroughly, all the sexual combinations and elaborations this site talks about?

Of course they did, and of course they have. And of course they don't care whether it's cool or not. It's not a matter of what outsiders accept. Behind closed doors means behind locked doors.
Personally, my stance is something like the author's (and no, I'm not a former christian, chomping at the bit to get back at them for something -.-). Essentially, when it comes right down to it, I see the bible as something like Aesop's fables. Sure, you can find some morality lessons in them, and I'm sure there's some historical elements there somewhere, but relying on the bible as a historical tome is the same thing as relying on fairy tales for history; not the wisest of plans.
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  #45  
Old 04-01-2012, 06:38 PM
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Oh, jeez, here we go.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #46  
Old 04-01-2012, 07:14 PM
polypenguin polypenguin is offline
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from what i've seen, there are roughly about 34,000 sects and about 9,000 denominations of christianity. But please don't take my word for it, google it. the fundamental problem i see with the bible is the same as any written word: Words are ALWAYS interpretable. take any sentence ever anywhere, and look up (via dictionary or otherwise) all of the words in that sentence, and how many different combinations can you get? the answer: a lot.

Here's an example: the letter/word "a" according to dictionary.com has 126 different definitions/meanings. when you take into account the bible has roughly 1,300 pages, you can quickly see where interpretations can spring up from.

Here's an example straight from the bible i think most people are familiar with "Thou shalt not kill." seems pretty straight forward, but does that mean we cannot kill in defense? or does that mean we cannot kill animals? or even plants for that matter? What about germs? To do that, humans could not live

I'm not saying i have the answer to everything by any means, but for anyone to say that anyone or anything does have all the answers, i don't believe they can be truthful in saying so.
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Old 04-01-2012, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by polypenguin View Post
from what i've seen, there are roughly about 34,000 sects and about 9,000 denominations of christianity. But please don't take my word for it, google it.
Tried, didn't find those numbers. Could you give me the google terms you used?

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Originally Posted by polypenguin View Post
the fundamental problem i see with the bible is the same as any written word: Words are ALWAYS interpretable. take any sentence ever anywhere, and look up (via dictionary or otherwise) all of the words in that sentence, and how many different combinations can you get? the answer: a lot.

Here's an example: the letter/word "a" according to dictionary.com has 126 different definitions/meanings. when you take into account the bible has roughly 1,300 pages, you can quickly see where interpretations can spring up from.

Here's an example straight from the bible i think most people are familiar with "Thou shalt not kill." seems pretty straight forward, but does that mean we cannot kill in defense? or does that mean we cannot kill animals? or even plants for that matter? What about germs? To do that, humans could not live
Definitely. There's also the fact that stories tend to change over time; the further down the line, the more distortion inherent. I personally feel that the Zeitgeist movie, especially when seen in conjunction with the Zeitgeist Companion Guide was an excellent resource in regards to religion and christianity in particular.

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Originally Posted by polypenguin View Post
I'm not saying i have the answer to everything by any means, but for anyone to say that anyone or anything does have all the answers, i don't believe they can be truthful in saying so.
I agree. To quote André Gide, "Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it."

Last edited by Scott; 04-01-2012 at 07:48 PM.
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  #48  
Old 04-02-2012, 01:44 AM
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from what i've seen, there are roughly about 34,000 sects and about 9,000 denominations of christianity...........

Here's an example straight from the bible i think most people are familiar with "Thou shalt not kill." seems pretty straight forward, but does that mean we cannot kill in defense? or does that mean we cannot kill animals? or even plants for that matter? What about germs? To do that, humans couldnot live.
Those tens of thousand of sects and denominations Google refers to - I've been told those are from all Christian history, 2,000 years. Many of them began and ended like a clam opening and closing its shell.

The ten commandments were written 6,000 years ago - at least - as missives for ancient Hebrews, who were unaware of germs and viewed animals, plants, women, children and often each other as commodities. Many believe that "Thou shalt not kill" originally read "Thou shalt not kill other Hebrews," and while I can't cite sources they make a good case for their theory. Other Hebrews makes a very different revisionist ball game.

That also can be googled. The notion sticks in the craw, doesn't it? It certainly did mine.
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  #49  
Old 04-02-2012, 07:50 PM
Vinccenzo Vinccenzo is offline
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Well the problem I have with using the bible as reference to encourage any standard of behavior is that it is treated like it floated down on the wings of some supernatural being and therefore nothing bad could possibly be found within it. Yet it, and many other religious texts, have been responsible for more bloodshed than can be quantified.
Prior to its creation, christian texts had been hunted and burned. Of what was left, later, was picked through by a committed hired by a ruler who wished to appeal to many religions at once in effort to create an army from divided people. Why should anything within be used to persuade, guilt, or control anyone to do something they don't want to do? It would be like using V.C. Andrews novels all mashed up into one book thousands of years from now to tell people how they should live.

I also come from a baptist family. You sound like you had a much better situation than what I experienced. I have family that feel women should be educated at a bare minimum and then home school their own daughters with what scant knowledge they acquired prior to marriage while their sons go the full 12 years to public school. I at least did get to go to school, but hard science was frowned on even by my immediate family.

Last edited by Vinccenzo; 04-02-2012 at 07:52 PM.
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  #50  
Old 04-02-2012, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Vinccenzo View Post
Well the problem I have with using the bible as reference to encourage any standard of behavior is that it is treated like it floated down on the wings of some supernatural being and therefore nothing bad could possibly be found within it. Yet it, and many other religious texts, have been responsible for more bloodshed than can be quantified.
Some have tried; the numbers are pretty large. That being said, I think that humanity as a whole is better off with christianity then without it. I think people don't stop to consider what we'd have had if christianity hadn't become the predominant world religion. Its main competition (Islam) is, in my view, generally worse.

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Originally Posted by Vinccenzo View Post
Prior to its creation, christian texts had been hunted and burned.
I find that to actually be one of the most encouraging aspects of christianity. The notion that self sacrifice can be a good thing is also something I respect.

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Originally Posted by Vinccenzo View Post
Of what was left, later, was picked through by a committe[e] hired by a ruler who wished to appeal to many religions at once in effort to create an army from divided people. Why should anything within be used to persuade, guilt, or control anyone to do something they don't want to do? It would be like using V.C. Andrews novels all mashed up into one book thousands of years from now to tell people how they should live.
I think there is some truth in what you say. That being said, I also think that there are some historical references in the bible; the truth may frequently be distorted to a great degree, but I do believe there is some truth in there. As to the committee you mention, I believe you're referring to the First Council of Nicea. After reading The Da Vinci Code and then seeing the film adaptation of said book, I decided to go further, to the main book it was based on, Holy Blood, Holy Grail. They all mention the Council of Nicea, but only after looking at the wikipedia entry did I find this interesting piece of information:
******
The biblical canon
Main article: Development of the Christian biblical canon
A number of erroneous views have been stated regarding the council's role in establishing the biblical canon. In fact, there is no record of any discussion of the biblical canon at the council at all.[54][55] The development of the biblical canon took centuries, and was nearly complete (with exceptions known as the Antilegomena, written texts whose authenticity or value is disputed) by the time the Muratorian fragment was written.[56] In 331 Constantine commissioned fifty Bibles for the Church of Constantinople, but little else is known, though it has been speculated that this may have provided motivation for canon lists. In Jerome's Prologue to Judith[57][58][59] he claims that the Book of Judith was "found by the Nicene Council to have been counted among the number of the Sacred Scriptures".
******

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Originally Posted by Vinccenzo View Post
I also come from a baptist family. You sound like you had a much better situation than what I experienced.
Who are you speaking to?

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Originally Posted by Vinccenzo View Post
I have family that feel women should be educated at a bare minimum and then home school their own daughters with what scant knowledge they acquired prior to marriage while their sons go the full 12 years to public school. I at least did get to go to school, but hard science was frowned on even by my immediate family.
:-/
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