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  #11  
Old 03-29-2012, 06:01 AM
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Does everyone think of it as that uncommon? I don't know, but I skimmed all the important stuff right from the start. What are the long term goal, ideal, ideas? Children? Building a house? Working in a different state/country? Going rural to shy away from all official social communities? and so on ... Sward and I talked about that during the first months. Doesn't mean that things where fixed with it, just to get an impression where the other was positioning himself and what his idea of future prospects are. I would always want to know where things are generally heading to.

Concerning the question of children, we discussed that topic in our vee during the last months a bit and came to the conclusion that both men would eventually have a biological child with me. As dh and I were already planning one, we go 'first'. Even though it may be a bit early to seriously consider it in your situation, maybe she just wanted to know if it would be a prospect ever? I think it is fair to ask for some clarification on this part from her side.
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  #12  
Old 03-29-2012, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NovemberRain View Post
Sometimes NRE can lead a person to forget to hold their tongue. However, it may be an indicator of her ability to be and/or stay appropriate. Hard to tell, this early.

I remember talking about babies with a boyfriend. He is thirteen years older than I am, and I was completely overwhelmed. He pointed out that consideration of babies is practically a biological imperative when you're having sex. He thought it would be unnatural if we didn't think about such things, even though we were both very clear in our preference to never spawn. And we were. At that point even, my tubes were already tied.

So, yah, I agree it's way too soon to give serious thought to such things. And, yah, I understand why some people think on it, and give voice to it. Doesn't have to be serious.
You put words to what I'm wrestling with, perfectly. Could be this, could be that, too soon to tell.

Is this a "normal" poly viewpoint? I mean I know you can't really call anything normal because every person/relationship/situation is different... I guess: is it common for secondaries to have children with the primaries? ("Secondary" & "primary" chosen because we as a couple have a hierarchy, I know that's not everyone's preference) I think part of my freaking out over that thought is that I never even considered that as an option. I always just assumed I'd be the only one having my husband's kids, and so did he.

We're giving it a month or so. At that point, if she's mellowed some, Hubbs wants to bring it up with her. He said he wants to make clear that he's not comfortable with them having kids together, but he has no objection to her having more kids with someone else. If that's not what she wants, we'll have to reevaluate.

The idea just sort of blind-sided me. I read 1 other post on here about that, and that's it. And the reactions to that one were pretty aghast, so I didn't think that was the norm in poly relationships.

Thanks for all the responses. I love how everyone on here is able to help each other sort things out & give perspective.
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  #13  
Old 03-29-2012, 02:29 PM
LusciousLemon LusciousLemon is offline
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My situation is far different as my primary relationship is unable to bear more children. So in our case we would be very happy to have children from a secondary relationship (I.E. a secondary and myself) as long as they were also comfortable with the situation.

I think children and poly all around is a very touchy situation. From what I've read many poly people are past childbearing age when they branch out into the poly world, and others simply never were interested in children. When you get the combination of childbearing age poly and interest in children you branch into a whole new realm. Then you're looking at the complicated dynamics of multi-parent households (more than two) is everyone on equal footing as parents to the resulting child(ren), who has legal say over the child(ren), how will the birth certificate read? What happens if the relationship does not last long term, does the non-birth certificate parent (in your case if your husband had a child with her, you) get any time or say in the child's life? It is a very touchy situation and thus one I think many people try to shy away from just due to the legal and emotional nature of possible entanglements.
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  #14  
Old 03-29-2012, 02:30 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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What are the ramifications if an accidental (wink wink ) pregnancy occurs?? What stops some head case from tethering herself to you (for life ) by getting pregnant?
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  #15  
Old 03-29-2012, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkNewbs View Post
Is this a "normal" poly viewpoint? I mean I know you can't really call anything normal because every person/relationship/situation is different... I guess: is it common for secondaries to have children with the primaries? ("Secondary" & "primary" chosen because we as a couple have a hierarchy, I know that's not everyone's preference) I think part of my freaking out over that thought is that I never even considered that as an option. I always just assumed I'd be the only one having my husband's kids, and so did he.

We're giving it a month or so. At that point, if she's mellowed some, Hubbs wants to bring it up with her. He said he wants to make clear that he's not comfortable with them having kids together, but he has no objection to her having more kids with someone else. If that's not what she wants, we'll have to reevaluate.
It is perfectly fine to tell her that neither of you would want your Hubs to father any children with anyone else. That is a boundary that needs to be respected, and then everyone would have to make sure that protection and birth control are used diligently. Or have a boundary against him having PIV sex with her, just to be sure.

Remember, you can still keep looking for a potential partner. She's not the only fish in the sea.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #16  
Old 03-31-2012, 05:32 PM
zylya zylya is offline
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It's one of those things where, if it's that important to you, you have to say it upfront. When people say things about kids and marriage and stuff early on, it's not because they're saying "let's have kids" or "let's get married" it's because they're trying to give you an idea of where they would ideally like to end up one day. Her saying that she wants kids with your husband isn't a "get me pregnant NOW" it's a question about the future - will I EVER be allowed to have kids with him is what she's asking.

If it's a no, then you've got to tell her because that's a pretty big deal. She should be allowed to make her decision to enter a relationship with you based on all the factors.

Whether or not it is common or uncommon in poly relationships is completely irrelevent, because you've each got to do what's right for yourselves, ESPECIALLY when it comes to future kids.

This is sometimes the problem with primary/secondary classifications, the primary couple assumes that the needs of the primary couple are more important than the needs of the secondary. What should really be the case is that the needs of everyone are met, and primary/secondary refers more to the live in situation, how much time you all spend with each other etc. It doesn't mean that someone doesn't get the right to have the things they want - if she wants to have kids with your husband some day (or the option to at least) and you're not willing to provide that, then it's not a case of the needs of the primary outweight the needs of the secondary, it's a case of three people not being compatible together.
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  #17  
Old 03-31-2012, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zylya View Post
Whether or not it is common or uncommon in poly relationships is completely irrelevent, because you've each got to do what's right for yourselves, ESPECIALLY when it comes to future kids.
THIS. I understand, oknewbs, you've talked about being a planner and a thinker and you want to know as much as you can before you dive in. But truly, every poly tangle is about what works for those people, and not about what works for anyone else in the world.
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  #18  
Old 03-31-2012, 06:37 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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You asked about whether it's common for secondary partners to have children together. I prefer to word it that way versus saying "is it normal for secondaries to have children with the primaries" because I think of those terms as describing relationships, not individuals -- she and your husband have a secondary relationship. And, since you're looking at things from an intentionally heirarchical viewpoint, the idea is that it will always be a secondary relationship, never a primary one.

From that perspective, not only would I say it doesn't seem to be common, I would also say that it probably should NOT happen if you can avoid it (accidents do happen of course, so it's not a bad idea to talk about what you would do in that event, but that's a different flavor of conversation).

Raising a child together is a huge, life-changing commitment, and if you're not prepared to live your lives together for the next 18 years, or at least give it your very best attempt, you're accepting from the start that the child won't live in the loving embrace of both of its parents. I'm not saying that single parent homes, or homes where one parent is a step-parent can't be amazing, of course they can, but shouldn't the first choice be to give a child the chance to live full-time with both biological parents if possible???

To me, raising kids together (assuming you want kids period) is part of what defines a primary relationship.
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  #19  
Old 03-31-2012, 09:06 PM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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This actually came up very early in my relationship with Dude.

MrS and I do not have children together. We had a miscarriage about 9 years ago and have not used protection together since - not "trying" but not NOT trying. A few years after the miscarriage I found out I had endometriosis, which decreases fertility/successful pregnancy rates (and hurts like a bitch ) so we pretty much were of the opinion that I was infertile.

When Dude and I got together MrS and I discussed whether I should go back on birth control (which incidentally helps with the pains associated with endometriosis) or if Dude and I should use condoms. A while into the conversation MrS hits the nail on the head "...OR, in your heart of hearts, are you wanting a baby badly enough that you are willing to have a baby by someone else?"

Yes, that, actually. (I can't keep secrets in general, and certainly could never keep something like THAT from MrS).

Dude had no particular interest in being a father. MrS and I approached him with this proposal. We were okay with me having unprotected sex with him IF he was OK with waiving parental rights should I get pregnant (i.e. essentially being a sperm donor) and with not knowing whether or not he was the biological father if that was what MrS and I decided was best for us. (i.e. MrS and I would be the "parents" regardless of who the baby's biological father was - he would be favorite "uncle" or sperm donor depending on the state of our relationship.) MrS asked Dude if he was willing to sign a legal document to that effect if asked. He was.

Long story short - I did get pregnant a few months in...and had another miscarriage. It was rough for all of us. We all pretty much assumed Dude was the biological father (due to frequency of opportunity). MrS had to deal with the feelings associated with having someone else be the biological father of "our" baby - along with the loss of potential fatherhood and a grieving wife. Dude had to deal with the feelings associated with having "fathered" a child (which I think affected him more than he thought it would) - along with helping his best friend and girlfriend deal with a pregnancy loss. I had to deal with losing another pregnancy and helping my husband and boyfriend sort through their feelings.

Actually, though, each of us having TWO people to lean on and support and commiserate with each of us through this period was very beneficial. We each had things going on that we could turn to different people for depending on our needs at that moment. After this I decided that I couldn't put us through the same ordeal again and resigned myself, over time, to the idea of NOT having a baby. I now have an implant (which prevents pregnancy and greatly helps the pain of the endometriosis). Making the decision to "stop trying" has actually reduced the stress in terms of planning a childless future (in the past I would be making plans along the lines of "we are going to do this and this but leave the possibility of THIS...in case I get pregnant...").

I still get sad, don't get me wrong, but I am able to see the positives and appreciate that my boys are willing to back me no matter what.

JaneQ

PS. I may have gotten off-topic in my reply...but I will leave it as it is related to secondaries having kids with a primary...
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Last edited by JaneQSmythe; 03-31-2012 at 09:47 PM. Reason: add PS
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