Don't even know where to begin...

[theque]

Originally Posted by Lemondrop

This really stood out for me. I don't feel qualified to hand out advice...but I do think you might want to ask yourself, do you want to hurt her? Are you trying to punish her? If so, what would that achieve for you? I think you should try to figure out what direction you want your relationship to take.

I just read a wonderful part of a book on polyamory that really resonated for me: it's not productive to tell yourself that you shouldn't have certain feelings, because you obviously do. Perhaps you need those feelings acknowledged before you can move on. Also, maybe reading a book on polyamory can help you identify how you feel about it--I know I've certainly had quite a few "a-ha" moments in the last hundred pages.

Yes, I need to do some more reading, but it's hard. I feel so pushed into all this that actively digging into it is a challenge. And that's really the root of that statement. It feels as if this is something that JustMe wanted, and rather than talking to me about changes in desires/feelings/etc like we had agreed to, she decided to risk our marriage by just "taking it" and having the affair. I mean really, we lived as a poly triad/vee for the better part of a year, I just didn't know it! So there's this feeling that I've been manipulated, and if I decide to embrace this, the manipulation will have succeeded. Her desires having been bought and paid for with her deceit and my pain; allowing her gamble with our marriage to succeed, when it feels like she shouldn't have been willing to gamble with it in the first place. And on point with your quote above, I feel like I shouldn't feel that way, but I do. It's one of the many (oh gawd, so freaking many!) things I'm having to sort out...

And sometimes, I do want to hurt her, to punish her. It wouldn't achieve anything for me except a short-lived feeling that "justice" had been served. For better or worse, I'm strongly wired for "justice", not necessarily "vengeance", or "getting even", but a sense that the appropriate repercussions for one's choices have come to pass. I hate it when someone "gets away with something", even if it's me. If I feel like I have come into something positive unfairly, the guilt of it is intense.

And as far as direction for our relationship, I don't even know that yet. I want whatever direction will allow us both to be the most happy. How's that for a non-answer?

[theque]

Originally Posted by Quath

Do you ever try to talk to Him and work it out with Him? (That almost sounds religious. ) It is hard letting go of feelings that don't quite want to leave. I hope that if you keep re-examining your life and morals, you will be able to align your feelings to your beliefs.

I have, but I think I did it too soon. I was so caught up in "doing it right" right from the beginning that I don't think I was really truly ready to be as magnanimous and forgiving as I was acting. I balled up as much of that anger as I could and buried it; civilized people don't get angry! Hah, right. And, honestly, I think it was too soon for Him too. So I think that while I meant everything that I said, there was so much unprocessed anger that it wasn't the right time to say it. Does that make sense? And that's been a big challenge for me, I can't figure out what to do with all the anger. I'm tired of fixing doors that I've punched through. Everything that I can think of that "makes sense" seems likely to put me either in jail, the hospital, or the ground...

It really frightened me that my anger towards Him was actually increasing, until it reached something of a breaking point last week. Since then we've had some pretty big shifts and events, and I think that's reversed for me, at least a little. When I think about Him now the first feeling is not the white-hot hatred it has been lately. I'm still angry, but it's tempered by other things again. There's sadness and disappointment of course; he was supposed to be my best friend too. So, I also miss Him. So yeah, I think that's a good shift. I hope it's a real sea-change, and we're not just at low tide...

I'm still not sure exactly what has changed, but for whatever ever reason, a lot of that anger has been bled off.

Which brings me to you, all of you that have contributed to this thread. Thanks again for your thoughts and compassion. I feel like this conversation has done more for me than the 6 months of counseling JustMe and I attended. Our poor counselor! She was a wonderful, caring, genuine woman, but I just don't think she was equipped for this sort of thing...

[River]

Originally Posted by theque

I am trying to learn how to restore that balance, but "closed" is offensive to my mind, and "open" hurts my heart.

I was re-reading your first post (I think it was the first) here, Theque, when I stumbled upon this quoted passage, and it somehow stood out as crucial.

I like alchemy as a metaphor--the transformation of lead into gold. Lead here is all of that anger, fear, resentment, etc. Gold is all the good stuff: love, joy, happiness, quality relating from a clear and open heart.

Making gold out of lead, here, probably will involve getting your head and your heart engaged in a sustained and mutally respectful dialogue. Like any respectful dialogue between persons who have dramatically different perspectives on a matter, your head and your heart need to listen very attentively and sensitively to one another, so that each knows that while there may be disagreement ... at least both parties are doing their very best to speak their mind and listen respectfully to one another. Both head and heart need to know that they can happily share a very small apartment or cottage -- and get along surprizingly well.

Let your head pour your heart a cup of tea, and let your heart genuinely thank your head for such a simple but delightful generosity.

Let your heart offer a cut flower to your head, from the garden.

Sit down as head and heart warmly welcome one another and form a genuine friendship. They are getting to like one another, and know and respect one another.

===

I don't believe all of the extreme emotion (fear verging into terror, anger verging into white hot hatred...) is entirely about what triggered it off, this time. Underlying this and giving it heat are other factors with older origins, even older than any previous adult relationships. At least I'd place my bets on that horse. I can't be sure, but the emotion just has the look of trauma-trigger about it.

Become in yourself a welcoming container, and seek to allow love and freedom and joy to grow large enough in you to welcome all of the pain in that atmosphere. Don't close up and surround the pain with only more pain, give it love. Hold it tenderly, however hot or hurt it may be. Practice like this a while. The more I practice like this, the greater becomes my love, joy and freedom welcoming container, which is the alchemical container where I am making gold out of lead.

[Lemondrop]

Originally Posted by theque

Yes, I need to do some more reading, but it's hard. I feel so pushed into all this that actively digging into it is a challenge.

Would it help if you approached your research as more of a journey to possibly help yourself feel better? Just because you read a book (or do anything else in regards to dealing with your feelings) does not mean that you have to commit to anything. You can walk away from reading a book on polyamory still thinking "This is not for me". And frankly, just about anything you find out that would help in a polyamorous relationship would also be helpful for a monogamous relationship, or even your relationship with yourself.

I'm really hoping that we are helping you, and not making you feel more pushed into polyamory. This is a deeply personal choice that only you can make, and I hope that we are conveying that you should make the choice that is comfortable for you.

[Lemondrop]

Originally Posted by JRiverMartin

...I like alchemy as a metaphor--the transformation of lead into gold. Lead here is all of that anger, fear, resentment, etc. Gold is all the good stuff: love, joy, happiness, quality relating from a clear and open heart....

Well, whatever else this post achieves, please know that it particularly applied to me today, and I appreciate it.

[Quath]

Originally Posted by theque

I have, but I think I did it too soon. I was so caught up in "doing it right" right from the beginning that I don't think I was really truly ready to be as magnanimous and forgiving as I was acting. I balled up as much of that anger as I could and buried it; civilized people don't get angry! Hah, right. And, honestly, I think it was too soon for Him too. So I think that while I meant everything that I said, there was so much unprocessed anger that it wasn't the right time to say it. Does that make sense? And that's been a big challenge for me, I can't figure out what to do with all the anger. I'm tired of fixing doors that I've punched through. Everything that I can think of that "makes sense" seems likely to put me either in jail, the hospital, or the ground...

Yeah, it sounds like you know what you should do, it is just hard to get your emotions on the same page. It seems like you are looking for ways to calm down some of your more intense feelings. I wonder if meditation or yoga or something like that would work. I don't do it, so I don't know for sure. I do try to relax myself when I feel strong emotions coming that I want to come out in a measured way. It is probably similar to meditation or something. I just try to breathe in a slow cycle until I feel enough calmness to continue. i don't know if that would help you or not, but i figured I would toss it out there anyway.

It really frightened me that my anger towards Him was actually increasing, until it reached something of a breaking point last week. Since then we've had some pretty big shifts and events, and I think that's reversed for me, at least a little. When I think about Him now the first feeling is not the white-hot hatred it has been lately. I'm still angry, but it's tempered by other things again. There's sadness and disappointment of course; he was supposed to be my best friend too. So, I also miss Him. So yeah, I think that's a good shift. I hope it's a real sea-change, and we're not just at low tide...

Yeah, it is a double betrayl. That has a lot of hurt behind it. I think the only consolidation you can really try to take from it is that they were not trying to hurt you. Their goal was to be happier, but they probably expected you not to find out. In a sense, everyone would be happier if you never had found out. However, they were probably rationalizing to get to that point.

If they really thought you would find out and be hurt, they would have probably behaved differently. This does not excuse their dishonesty, but it may be a perspective that helps you find forgiveness for them. People are majorly flawed. I think our capacity to love them with these flaws is something truely great. After all, we all have flaws. You may mess up on something and will hope to receive the forgiveness you have been able to give. That may help with the "win" idea.

I'm still not sure exactly what has changed, but for whatever ever reason, a lot of that anger has been bled off.

Some of it could be that time dulls wounds. It could also be that you are growing more confortable with some ideas.

Which brings me to you, all of you that have contributed to this thread. Thanks again for your thoughts and compassion. I feel like this conversation has done more for me than the 6 months of counseling JustMe and I attended. Our poor counselor! She was a wonderful, caring, genuine woman, but I just don't think she was equipped for this sort of thing...

You are in a safe place to say how you feel among people who probably think or understand where you are coming from. This is kind of unusual territory for most counselors.