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  #11  
Old 03-19-2012, 05:33 PM
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firehaus firehaus is offline
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Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
How would she want to be loved by this other partner? Whats her vision for all this?
I can't answer that on her behalf. She would have to respond (she said she is hesitant to join any forum re: polyamory). We have been talking, asking difficult questions, and sometimes getting back difficult answers. I feel closer to her now possibly than ever before. She had been closing up to me and now she is so open. Our discussions our very fulfilling in a way they haven't been in a while. Instead of talking about house payments or who is going to pull weeds we are talking about love, what it means to us, and more.

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Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
Whats her response to your last paragraph? How does building 2 separate outside romantic relationships help improve dates and intimacy in the so called "primary". Who's using the word primary you or her? Could that mean different things to each of you? Has that ever been discussed?
Well, your question has been my question. "How does building 2 separate outside romantic relationships help improve dates and intimacy in the so called 'primary'. " I don't see how it does help intimacy between my wife and I, but it is a little bit like it can't be worse than it was before (meaning over the past 2-yrs). I'm the one who used the word "primary", and I can't remember right now but she used a similar word to describe our relationship/marriage. In any case I believe that she and I are talking about the same thing.

Again I appreciate the questions. Really helps make sure I am thinking this through and asking the right questions.

Last edited by firehaus; 03-19-2012 at 05:36 PM.
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  #12  
Old 03-19-2012, 05:58 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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It's not important that her vision be known here ....but to you...you need to know.

So you were speculating on how she wanted to be loved by the other guy? (the part I quoted in my last posting)


Is she willing to read this thread and other stories here on the forum?

It's great the questions was asked ....What was the answer? Did you get one?
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  #13  
Old 03-19-2012, 06:12 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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There are a few red flags I saw in these statements of yours:
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Originally Posted by firehaus View Post
...we have not very often been together intimately (and yes this was related to her new feelings, not understanding them, but other issues as well). I had already been feeling so distracted by this absence of frequent intimacy that I was seriously considering having a sexual affair or affairs to help me feel "normal" so I could function day to day...
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...she started feeling something was wrong with her, with us, I felt it too. We would talk sometimes but never quite figure anything out....

Dating is something we really desperately need. We are aware of that...
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Originally Posted by firehaus View Post
We hardly date or sleep together now and if you're going to be sleeping someplace else then we'll never share our souls and bodies again.
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Originally Posted by firehaus View Post
...I don't see how it does help intimacy between my wife and I, but it is a little bit like it can't be worse than it was before (meaning over the past 2-yrs).
You think it can't be worse now - but you're wrong. It can become much worse.

Polyamory is not a cure for what is ailing in a marriage. You will see this written many, many times in these forums and on other poly sites. Just be careful if either of you has the idea that poly will make everything all better.

Managing multiple love relationships cannot work well for a couple without a good, strong, healthy foundation for the relationship they already have with each other. Sure, talking about opening it up can bring you closer as far as communication and understanding the love you share for each other, and so on. Finally, you're talking about things other than bill-paying and you're having great sex again! Woo-hoo! Then the euphoria passes and you have to deal with the real-life nitty-gritty of being involved with more people who have their own wants, needs, and baggage. It won't be theoretical anymore. And either one of you having another partner means that every crack and imbalance in your marriage's foundation will be intensified and magnified. So, keep reminding yourselves of that and working to strengthen what you have together before moving forward. Poly ain't a Band-aid. Good luck.
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Last edited by nycindie; 03-19-2012 at 07:27 PM.
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  #14  
Old 03-19-2012, 10:28 PM
Finney Finney is offline
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Hi. I'm firehaus' wife. You all are very nice for responding to him as he has started posting here with his thoughts and feelings.

I know I don't have to clarify for all of you, as you have said, but I do think it would help you give him more accurate responses.


He's right, I have had very few relationships, and I've slept with only 3 people, including him.

After my relationship that ended in 1997 where I was deeply hurt, I did indeed shut down many aspects of myself out of a feeling of self-preservation and protection. I also placed a lot of limits on him, when we started having a long term relationship, for the same reason. I know that that is not good. I tried to build my own safety net and safe place, and he, to his credit, put up with it. I feel badly for doing that. When all of this came to a head a month ago, the first thing I did was apologize for that, and remove all the blocks I had placed around ourselves. They were mostly around me, but a few were around him, and now are gone, something I feel terrific about.I am excited to see where he goes, how he grows and what he creates now, with the freedom I shouldn't have limited.

What I feel happened, is that I built my own prison, locking myself away from others. This started even before I was married. Over time, I started suffering from my own rules and "safety" jail I built for myself. By 2006, it was a problem. I had met one of the "two men" he has mentioned, and felt ripped apart inside by not being allowed to connect with him as deeply as I wanted.

This got worse and worse over time, and I became more and more inhibited and detached within my marriage. I had no anger or resentment towards Firehaus, I didn't even get what was going on, exactly. I just... felt incomplete, and that I was missing out on meaningful connections with people because that's what was expected of me, by society, by the fact I was married, and because to do anything else would be "wrong."

Combine that with the physical issues (cervical dysplasia) that appeared after I was pregnant, and just wasn't in the mood at all. I felt terrible about it, but I was just in a dark, lonely place, one I had mostly built for myself. I still felt very connected to Firehaus, we have always had, I feel, strong communication and connection, but it was failing with the different spheres we were moving in, almost like roommates in the same house, with a huge love for our son, but.... drifting.

When I finally figured it out, it was like a round peg going in a round hole. In the past 3 years I have met someone else that has become a close friend. And the same thing happened that happened with my first friend. I eventually ran against my own walls of what I felt was proper, expected of me, and the right thing to do to NOT be like my past boyfriend who brought me so much pain, fear and physical harm. I felt more and more polarized. I had been going out alone with friends for years at night, and didn't feel like coming home, because home was the prison I built for myself. I never did anything that would be cheating, I honored my husband and marriage, but I was being ripped part inside in sadness at not being able to connect with others, emotionally, physically. Feeling like I couldn't share with the few that have made their way into my life how much they mean to me, and that seemed like a very sad thing that I would really regret when I'm old in a rocking chair, looking backwards.

What do I want? The freedom to connect. Yes, right now, there is someone that I care very much for as a friend, and if it can go deeper, I would like that. Of the two friends Firehaus has mentioned, one I don't seek anything further with right now. He isn't living nearby, and the relationship has shifted during the past 8 years since we live on other sides of the planet. I am happy with where that friendship rests.

I really feel that love is infinite. Love begets more love. I am thankful and so amazed by Firehaus' willingness to let me be who I am, who I shut away before he even met me. I feel badly that I had been so hurt that I cut myself off from who I really am, when he met me. I feel he is very brave and loving to let me step out of the person he thought he married. I want this to work for both of us. One of you is correct, I feel. As I become happier, we will become happier. I really feel that. I want to be on this ride with him, not without him.

This is not wanderlust, or midlife crisis. It's something I have always been, but shut down after a horrible ending to a relationship where I let everything hang out, bare and unshielded. I knew something was wrong, honestly, before I even said "I do," but I did what I thought I was supposed to do, what society thought I should, what would keep me safe from ever being hurt again. Stupid. I hurt myself far more than that old boyfriend did, I let him change me, and I let his choices affect mine in ways that have been detrimental to me, and our family. The feeling of telling Firehaus was one of instant relief. I felt less tension than I had had in years. I know this isn't a band aid. It felt like coming home to who I used to be, and who I buried for the sake of those around me. Foolish.

We are working hard, communicating, checking in. I am trying very hard to make sure he understands that I want to be with him, I want our family together, I want to be intimate with him, and connect the way we used to, and in ways we never have before. We have lots to do between ourselves, but we are working on it. It's not easy sometimes but I love the conversations for how much closer they bring us together. I know that if we had continued as we were, before I finally put the pieces together from the damage I had done, we'd not have made it. Firehaus recognized that there was no going back, because back wasn't right, either. Only forwards could we work together and bring our connection to a better place. I think we are doing that.

It's my job to make sure he understands how much I love him, and want him, and have no desire to leave him, or the family we have created. I hope I can help him understand that my feelings for others do not lessen or dilute how I feel about him. It's just more love in the world, in my world. I want more love with him, and with the few others I feel may cross my path in the coming years. I know, never say never, but I really feel no need to go beyond one more person, and I am not casual with my deep connections. My track record is limited, and I expect it to stay that way, in general.

Love. It's one of the greatest things I think we have as humans. What I simply asked for is the ability to love as it finds me in my one life on this planet, which is what I told him initially I had lost, the freedom to do that. Had my friend not been here, the feeling would have been the same, the need would be the same. It isn't about this particular person, in the big picture. As I told him 2 nights ago, knowing I have that freedom, that ability, is what is important. I really, honestly feel that giving it out makes it return in even greater abundance...for me, for my friend, and for my amazing husband, who I am more in awe of every day as we process this and try to make it work. I hope he finds his life enriched as well, maybe not the same way mine is, but with the freedoms he now has that were missing, the way things were for over a decade. I'm happy for HIM, too.

I have asked my friend to get tested for STIs. If he can't play by the rules, then it's moot, for this particular individual, who will then remain a very dear friend. My vision is that I am free to love him, as a friend, or more, if that is how it unfolds, while loving Firehaus all the more for who he is, and for having the courage and love to let me be who I am.

This is the best I can do without writing a novel. I probably sound like a total newb, which, in many ways, I am. Heck, it is novel anyway. I hope it helps.
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  #15  
Old 03-20-2012, 06:30 AM
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NovemberRain NovemberRain is offline
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Hey Finney,

That was a lovely, impassioned intro. To me, you don't sound like a newb at all.
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  #16  
Old 03-20-2012, 08:01 AM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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Finney,

First I want to applaud you for the courage to finally get this in the open. I also admire the fact you decided to come here and express you side of things. I also think you are a very good writer and did a very good job. Well done.

You said the first thing you did when this came to head was remove all the blocks. What were the blocks? Your excited to see him grow ...where he goes? what does that mean?


It sounds like you had some very traumatic prior relationship ...never really healed from it ...found a caring guy....perhaps mistook that for love, or playing it safe ...married knowing something was wrong....went through the motions for years ...thought a child would help ...had a child ...eventually found love and connection outside which pushed the divide even deeper with your husband. Developing a roommate type relationship which is centered around your son. The dam finally broke and years of stuff come tumbling out. So now you know who you are... the old you is back ...and also you know what you want or need...this other guy.

I think it great that you found your old self. I think its really sad that the guy the gut it out, honor his commitment to you and his family for 12 yrs wont be the primary recipient... He get to be introduced to the new .."old " you and love the new old you along with the new guy... pending the STI test comes back OK.

To me this sounds really similar to what happened to me. My wife didn't want to destroy the family...really didn't want to be the bad person ...liked her life ...house,clothes, her Bmw or our cars, vacation home...had loyalty or guilt for the years I put up with her ....so how about a negotiated settlement.... ala open marriage. Well I thought at the time my family life was more important than who my wife was having sex with ...and because of the devastating blow or realization of her feelings it didn't really matter that much after that so I agreed. It took a several days or a week to mourn the loss of my marriage. The biggest problem for me was feeling played or lied to.
So I settled ...for an unknown percentage.... of time, focus, and not just me but the entire family. Everyone took a hit. Even the dogs. When asked how it would work ..."I don't know I've never done this we'll have to play it by ear". Her ear sucks.

The love you say you feel ...are sure that's not just gratitude for 12 years of service ...longevity or gratitude that the family hasn't been destroyed ...or gratitude for listening and excepting you and trying move forward with you for your sons sake.?


So the investment of large amounts time and energy to build outside romantic relationships helps the primary ...(if we can really use that word) by being happier. Happiness is the answer? Happiness ...just her happiness The hope is it spills over some. Really hard to bank on ...NRE does funny things to people...read up.

So now ...you'll start dating ...start having sex more frequently maybe ...out of desire???? or out of gratitude and or obligation to the new cause?


The red flags Cindie cited concern me from moment one.. hence all the questions. I think if you want your marriage (some primary type union ) to stay together you need couples counseling to deal with all that old stuff and introduce or help understand the new old Finney ...perhaps continue living like roommates and causally date each other ..invest the time and energy in the old guy first ....start over sorta. See how that goes before adding the new guy. Just a thought

Good luck D
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  #17  
Old 03-20-2012, 02:44 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finney View Post
We are working hard, communicating, checking in. I am trying very hard to make sure he understands that I want to be with him, I want our family together, I want to be intimate with him, and connect the way we used to, and in ways we never have before. We have lots to do between ourselves, but we are working on it.
It sounds like you have a good start in being honest with yourself. Just keep your eyes open and remember that, if you do date this man you're interested in or other people, you should be dating your husband, too. Don't let the relationship with Firehaus just be all about the household, bills, and child-raising, while other men are all about escaping to fun sexy times. You'd be surprised how many people come here and talk about the problems they have because they never quite figured that part out.

Yes, that means scheduling regular date nights with Firehaus, and getting a babysitter!

If you don't have time for hot dates with your hubby now, how will you have time for hot dates with him and someone else later? Like Dingedheart posted earlier, if you use each other for babysitters, resentment and distance will only grow. If you want romance with others, remember to stoke the fires of romance at home.
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  #18  
Old 03-20-2012, 03:46 PM
Finney Finney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
It sounds like you have a good start in being honest with yourself. Just keep your eyes open and remember that, if you do date this man you're interested in or other people, you should be dating your husband, too. Don't let the relationship with Firehaus just be all about the household, bills, and child-raising, while other men are all about escaping to fun sexy times. You'd be surprised how many people come here and talk about the problems they have because they never quite figured that part out.

Yes, that means scheduling regular date nights with Firehaus, and getting a babysitter!

If you don't have time for hot dates with your hubby now, how will you have time for hot dates with him and someone else later? Like Dingedheart posted earlier, if you use each other for babysitters, resentment and distance will only grow. If you want romance with others, remember to stoke the fires of romance at home.
This is the main issue I think we have to work on, and are working on. That IS what our relationship had turned into, and I am actively wanting that to change, even if there was no poly that would be the same situation and case!

We DO have time for each other, but we weren't working to isolate it and use it. We just weren't really making it a priority, due to other work, finances, etc., and my physical issues last year and unease the year before certainly not helping out. We do have a nearby sitter so we can go out together, and make fun dates at home, too, once our child is in bed. Making it a regular, calendared thing is a great idea.

As to time for both, there are special circumstances with this individual in that he is gone. A LOT. At least half the year, in total, scattered over weeks and months away, with shorter stretches of time at home. Large stretches of time will be just me and Firehaus like always. I'll miss him while he's gone, but that is nothing new, and his schedule away is not a mystery, we will know when he is going to be home. And it allows me plenty of time to focus on my family, and tons of time to focus on Firehaus and our relationship.

I'm going to duck away, again, I think. =) But I may check in, esp. if Firehaus wants me to.

Last edited by Finney; 03-20-2012 at 04:15 PM.
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  #19  
Old 03-23-2012, 04:37 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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Finney,
Hope you're not ducking away because of something I wrote.


Fire,
What were the blocks she removed?
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  #20  
Old 03-23-2012, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
Finney,
Hope you're not ducking away because of something I wrote.
I think Finney isn't looking for the same advice/suggestions/opinions that I am looking for. She already has a close friend of 9-10 years who she has been hearing about poly from nearly that entire time. And as I've mentioned we've both had friends who were poly. She probably asked them more questions than I did so had more outside info on which to base her new life-choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
What were the blocks she removed?
Finney was extremely anti-porn. My background is that of an artist so eroticism, nudity, sensuality, whatever you want to call it was normal for me. Don't misunderstand how she is though. She is not easily embarrassed nor shy about nudity. She has a liberal family background and experienced a very liberal college environment. Truly a free spirit in many ways open to experiences and the different life-choices of others.

She removed the blocks so I could pursue dormant interests. I would like to reinvigorate a neglected photography career/hobby which at some point would definitely involve photographing naked bodies. That's what I was doing the last time this career/hobby was interuppted.

We have had so much communication between us over the past weeks that I am feeling very comfortable with what may come. My eyes are wide open. I may have some painful or simply un-comfortable feelings about things as they develop, but I feel that I can deal with these as they come because at the core I know how I feel about Finney, my family, and life in general.

I'm actually still "on the fence" about outside love relationships for myself. I am not ruling them out but I'm not sure if I will pursue them or not. That may be a decision I make later on - or not.
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