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  #11  
Old 03-16-2012, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Qarzan View Post
The metaphor is: my emotions aren't a light switch that can be turned on and off at will; it's a bonfire. Over the past weekend, H and I gathered the kindling on Thursday, lit the kindling on Saturday, and piled on more wood on Sunday. The fire was big and bright, and burned hot.

Then on Monday, we tried to hide and contain it. But, how do you hide a 12-foot flame? Somehow we managed, but I'm sure there were quite a few people who could tell there was a fire that we were trying to hide.

On Tuesday, she was gone, and I was left with this huge bonfire, burning bright and hot. I was expected to snuff it out, or at least contain it to a manageable size.
Who says that when she's not in town you can't still have a big huge flame burning? It seems like you have a bit of tunnel vision with this relationship and are forgetting that she has other people in her life, and you potentially do as well. There can be a multitude of flames burning all at the same time. But leaving the metaphors behind, it sounds like H. is being honest with you about the limitations she has surrounding how involved she can be. It isn't her responsibility to nurture your emotional health, that's up to you.

I hate to say this, but to me, you do come off as a little needy and clingy in your expectations of H., and I think you need to wake up a bit, get your feet back on the ground, don't look for her to take care of you, and start seeing the reality of the situation and just enjoy it. If you start laying a heavy trip on her, likely it will not bode well for you, so ease up on the expectations or she will be gone. That's how I see it, anyway.

I'll tell you what I remind myself of when starting a new relationship: that I always want to be a source of lightness and refuge for my partner, someone with whom they can enjoy their time and experience pleasure. I feel that being with me should never be stressful or a downer in the early stages of a romance. I don't dismiss any negative feelings I have, I just don't burden any new partners with the crap in my head. I still communicate what needs to be said, but I work it out elsewhere beforehand to get clear on what, exactly, that is. I do this because I would rather take care of myself than be "high maintenance" for someone else.

Not only do I learn a lot about myself this way, but what I've found is that my lovers appreciate me as someone with whom they feel safe and free to be themselves. They then let themselves get close to me without my asking them to. Which means more to me than if they met any demands/wishes I had that they let me in, help me deal with it, etc. It's a slower process and very challenging because I am used to jumping all in right away. However, if I can be patient, when we do reach a stage of deeper closeness and intimacy, then, I feel the relationship has a better foundation for me to express the more difficult stuff, my insecurities, etc. -- but in the beginning, that needy shit's a killer. Unfortunately, I found that out the hard way. So, it has helped me enormously to take this tack.
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Last edited by nycindie; 03-16-2012 at 05:23 PM.
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  #12  
Old 03-16-2012, 08:28 PM
Qarzan Qarzan is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Who says that when she's not in town you can't still have a big huge flame burning? It seems like you have a bit of tunnel vision with this relationship and are forgetting that she has other people in her life, and you potentially do as well. There can be a multitude of flames burning all at the same time. But leaving the metaphors behind, it sounds like H. is being honest with you about the limitations she has surrounding how involved she can be. It isn't her responsibility to nurture your emotional health, that's up to you.

I hate to say this, but to me, you do come off as a little needy and clingy in your expectations of H., and I think you need to wake up a bit, get your feet back on the ground, don't look for her to take care of you, and start seeing the reality of the situation and just enjoy it. If you start laying a heavy trip on her, likely it will not bode well for you, so ease up on the expectations or she will be gone. That's how I see it, anyway.

I'll tell you what I remind myself of when starting a new relationship: that I always want to be a source of lightness and refuge for my partner, someone with whom they can enjoy their time and experience pleasure. I feel that being with me should never be stressful or a downer in the early stages of a romance. I don't dismiss any negative feelings I have, I just don't burden any new partners with the crap in my head. I still communicate what needs to be said, but I work it out elsewhere beforehand to get clear on what, exactly, that is. I do this because I would rather take care of myself than be "high maintenance" for someone else.

Not only do I learn a lot about myself this way, but what I've found is that my lovers appreciate me as someone with whom they feel safe and free to be themselves. They then let themselves get close to me without my asking them to. Which means more to me than if they met any demands/wishes I had that they let me in, help me deal with it, etc. It's a slower process and very challenging because I am used to jumping all in right away. However, if I can be patient, when we do reach a stage of deeper closeness and intimacy, then, I feel the relationship has a better foundation for me to express the more difficult stuff, my insecurities, etc. -- but in the beginning, that needy shit's a killer. Unfortunately, I found that out the hard way. So, it has helped me enormously to take this tack.
Thanks for the advice, Cindie. It definitely helps. I sent her this facebook message last night:

"Hi [H]!

I apologize if my last text may have freaked you out a little. I told you that it's very difficult for me to hold back my feelings. I felt that I missed you, and wanted to call just to say "hello", so I sent a text saying that I miss you, and asking if I could call.

Anyways, you might be busy, get back to me when you have time. "

I also had lunch with one of my close friends who I've just recently learned is poly. I do think all of this stress comes from the fact that H and I didn't clearly define what we had, or what was going to happen. It would have been much easier for me to deal with if we had decided something, anything, instead of saying "Let's take it as it comes" which basically gives me no information.

I don't blame H, maybe she's with another boyfriend, maybe she's busy, maybe she lost her phone. I will wait until she contacts me, or until I see her again. I did realize, once I calmed down, that my reaction came from a place of neediness and desperation. I need to cap that s4!t.
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  #13  
Old 03-16-2012, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Qarzan View Post
I do think all of this stress comes from the fact that H and I didn't clearly define what we had, or what was going to happen. It would have been much easier for me to deal with if we had decided something, anything, instead of saying "Let's take it as it comes" which basically gives me no information.

...I did realize, once I calmed down, that my reaction came from a place of neediness and desperation. I need to cap that s4!t.
By the way you can write the word "shit" here. This site doesn't have any problems with cursing.

Wait a minute -- I just re-read your original post.

You and H. have kissed, had dinner, and one "topless makeout session," as well as having taught a class together. And you are stressed about where it will lead? Wishing that a decision could be made? And you want her to define this with you? Unless things transpired that you didn't share here, you seem to be blowing things way out of proportion. As far as I see it, it is very defined: you two are just starting to date.

I can say, honestly, you might be coming off as very pushy if this is your approach. I wouldn't have sent that apology email. The previous text might not have even been a big deal to her. You need some objectivity and to not be reading so much into this. There is no obligation on her part for any definitions or explanations or decisions simply because you had dinner together and she made out with you once. While, of course, it is very exciting, the two of you are hardly an "item" yet. Ease up on this, date R. and whomever else you are drawn to, and get some perspective on H. or it will backfire!
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Last edited by nycindie; 03-16-2012 at 09:10 PM.
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  #14  
Old 03-16-2012, 10:14 PM
Qarzan Qarzan is offline
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You're absolutely right, Cindie. Thanks for putting things in perspective... yet again.

EDIT: And in terms of defining things, I wanted to ask her things like, if she prefers that I contact her more often, or less often, or if I should just wait for her to contact me... that sort of thing. Do you think this would come off as being pushy?

I would probably bring it up like, "I know you're really busy, and you're travelling a lot, and I definitely don't want to intrude on your time, so would you prefer that I contact you less often?"

Last edited by Qarzan; 03-16-2012 at 10:59 PM.
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  #15  
Old 03-17-2012, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
It seems to be going just fine so far. Everyone you date will be different so why try and box them in? Why worry about who gets more and who gets less? Its just different. Different stages and different approaches for different people. I don't get why you have an issue with making the first moves. What does it matter? Sounds good to me.
Red Pepper is wise and needs to make an affirmations calendar. Just sayin'.
As I go along in this experience, I find it better on me if I just go with the flow. Every time I try to fight it or keep score, I get bummed out.
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  #16  
Old 03-17-2012, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Qarzan View Post
And in terms of defining things, I wanted to ask her things like, if she prefers that I contact her more often, or less often, or if I should just wait for her to contact me... that sort of thing. Do you think this would come off as being pushy?
Well, if it's something like, "Where do you see our relationship going?" or "How do we define what we have here?" before there really is a relationship, that seems a bit pushy, or maybe more needy and clingy than anything else. Because it's like asking her to shape something out of the bare beginnings of a dating dynamic.

However, there is nothing needy in saying, "I like you," "I enjoy your company," or "I'm looking forward to seeing you again." Because those are direct statements about how you feel, not questions about what you're going to get out of being with her. Capisce?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qarzan View Post
I would probably bring it up like, "I know you're really busy, and you're travelling a lot, and I definitely don't want to intrude on your time, so would you prefer that I contact you less often?"
Oy. My reaction to what you wrote is that it's kinda wishy-washy, in my opinion, like you're standing there with hat in hand. What's wrong with just being direct: "How often can I call you?" (or "text you") And I would wait to say this until you see her again. And if she says something like, "I don't know, let's just play it by ear," then you say something like, "Okay, I just want to make sure I don't intrude on inopportune times" or whatever, which can open up a dialogue, but that's different than prefacing your ask with a "I'm so sorry to even be bothering you with this question" kind of begging quality.

And if she still doesn't give you a definitive answer, just be loose about it. Send a text if you feel like making contact ("Hey, thinking of you, hope all is well..."), and leave it alone. Don't send a half-apologetic one the next day. If you don't hear from her for three or four days, or a week or two, there's your indication of how often she wants to or can be in touch. Also, I would just practice making direct statements (with everyone in your life) whenever you want something, if I were you.

This is all just my take on it, and my perspective on how I would approach things. Others here may feel you're doing just fine the way you've been handling things, but I just think it's better to not be too heavy-handed in the beginnings of a possible relationship.
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Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me. ~Bryan Ferry
"Love is that condition in which another person's happiness is essential to your own." ~Robert Heinlein

Last edited by nycindie; 03-17-2012 at 04:12 PM.
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  #17  
Old 03-22-2012, 10:36 AM
Qarzan Qarzan is offline
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So, what I'm struggling with, is, isn't it supposed to be healthy to express what you're feeling? I feel all bottled up. Why is it not ok for me to express this? Why is it not ok for me to tell her that I miss her? Or that I wish I could be with her?

My self-respect is telling me that I need to watch out for myself. In this way, if someone comes along and is not willing to accept me the way I am (ie- expressive) then I need to move on.

Last edited by Qarzan; 03-22-2012 at 10:58 AM.
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  #18  
Old 03-22-2012, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Qarzan View Post
So, what I'm struggling with, is, isn't it supposed to be healthy to express what you're feeling? I feel all bottled up. Why is it not ok for me to express this? Why is it not ok for me to tell her that I miss her? Or that I wish I could be with her?

My self-respect is telling me that I need to watch out for myself. In this way, if someone comes along and is not willing to accept me the way I am (ie- expressive) then I need to move on.
It's not that it's not okay, it's a matter of timing. It may not be okay YET. You do need to express your feelings, just not necessarily to HER. Because you have not established whether or not you have that kind of relationship.

If I've been dating someone for a few dates, regardless of intensity, 'missing' would be a bit much for me to hear.

I have been lately expressing 'missing' to one of my men. He ignores it. Which is fine. But what I say is 'I miss you' and then follow it with the chatty conversation customary to our emails. It's a direct statement, and I have no attachment to how he receives it.

You want to say 'I miss you' and for her to miss you too. It comes across differently.

Who says it's not okay to express yourself? Her? You? This forum? fwiw, I didn't hear anyone hear say 'don't express yourself' ~ more like, think about what you're expressing and this is how we might hear it if you say it like that.


and you're absolutely right to notice that it's a clue for you. perhaps you need someone more available (not long distance maybe?) and more emotionally available ('aw, that's nice to hear that you miss me'). I actually think that's a brilliant insight for yourself!
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  #19  
Old 03-22-2012, 03:43 PM
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There's a big difference between expressing how you feel and asking for something in return with a little bit of "please like me as much as I like you" thrown in. One just lays it out there, assertively, the other is all wrapped up in expectation and wanting some sort of validation.

There's nothing wrong with expressing that you miss her or want to be with her. I did say to you:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
...there is nothing needy in saying, "I like you," "I enjoy your company," or "I'm looking forward to seeing you again." Because those are direct statements about how you feel, not questions about what you're going to get out of being with her...

What's wrong with just being direct: "How often can I call you?"
I'm sorry if some of the other things I wrote in my previous posts confuses or upsets you. Certainly, you can ignore my feedback and continue with how you've been approaching everything. My views are only my views. I was simply sharing my reaction if I put myself in her shoes: a few dates and a makeout session is not yet a serious relationship in my eyes, and it seemed like you were building it up to be something more than it is, and much too soon. She told you, "Let's just see how it goes," and "I don't really know what I want," but you were all stressed out, want things more defined, need to know where it's going, and it kind of seemed impatient and like you were asking for what you want in a way that sounds a little like begging for her affection/attention. I could be wrong. But it is new for you and it seemed you were chomping at the bit a little too much for what seems to be the early stages of dating someone.

No one is saying not to express yourself, but to monitor how you do it and what you want to get out of saying it. I agree with NovemberRain in that sometimes it is best to get out the confused thoughts or longings to someone else, so that you don't knock over your love interest with what you're hoping for.

How do you feel you might handle it if she just wants to keep things casual and not too committed?
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Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me. ~Bryan Ferry
"Love is that condition in which another person's happiness is essential to your own." ~Robert Heinlein

Last edited by nycindie; 03-22-2012 at 03:55 PM.
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  #20  
Old 03-22-2012, 05:00 PM
Qarzan Qarzan is offline
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I wouldn't quite say it's so much that I want her to say "I miss you" in return. What bothers me most is that she said she would call me "early next week" (which is this week), and she hasn't. Now it's Thursday, and I've made last contact by asking her to call.

Part of me tells me just to chill out, kind of what Cindie has advised, let her set a pace that she feels comfortable with. But then I feel what one of my friends told me, "What happens when you need something?" Seems the men in the beginnings of relationships are not allowed to express closeness.

If she wanted to keep things casual, that would be ok with me. It would tell me what to expect and how to deal with it, and I would be freaking out a whole lot less.

I will definitely start talking to friends more. This has been difficult, though, since she is a dance instructor and has her professional reputation to consider, so I've been very selective about who I tell. And also, many of those I've told, I haven't told them her name (because they already know who she is). This makes talking about it with friends difficult. I think this really adds to the pressure of not being able to express myself.

In addition, I will use these forums to ask advice and let off some pressure. Thanks for all your support!
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