Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Poly Relationships Corner

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 03-20-2012, 07:29 PM
AnnabelMore's Avatar
AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,229
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
We are in the clear now emotionally and the marriage feels strong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
I told her this in a long letter last night and was just yelled at on the phone for about a half an hour about how she can't make me happy because making others happy is impossible and that my writing the letter was a plea for pity, and who wants to have sex with someone who just feels sorry for themselves anyways. What she says is that I'm just trying to ruin her fun.
I'm sorry dude, but your statements are contradicting each other. In a relationship that's emotionally "in the clear" one partner doesn't spend a half an hour yelling at the other for trying to express a problem. I've blown up at my partner once or twice and felt like an ass and apologized, but there's a big difference between a brief emotional outburst and a sustained, belittling rant, which is what it sounds like you endured.

Your envy is extremely reasonable. If she doesn't want to try to heal your sexual relationship, and doesn't want to pull back on things with her lover during this rough time, well, that's a big shame. But to hold those stances AND to insist that you not have the same outlet that she has by having a partner locally? What the hell? What is the possible rationale?

What were you two thinking when you made this agreement? What is she thinking that she won't let it bend now that it's obvious it's not working?
__________________
The major players. Me, 30ish bi female. Gia, girlfriend of 4+ years. Clay, boyfriend/dom. Davis, ex/friend/"it's complicated." Eddie, roommate & fwb.
The supporting cast. Eric, Gia's husband. Bee, Gia and Eric's toddler. Dexter, Gia's lover. Helen, Eric's lover. Izzy and Nikki, Clay's partners. Liam, Eddie's husband.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-20-2012, 07:47 PM
SourGirl's Avatar
SourGirl SourGirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: South of an Igloo, North of a Desert.
Posts: 885
Default

Well, you`re playing the role of the pussy-whipped man.

A role I don't think you initially signed up for, but I hope you see it now.

She is most definitely going to kick and stomp like a child about any complaining you do. You signed on to do things as she pleased, without even negotiating what you wanted. Most likely because you didn`t know what to ask for, or what was possible. Very human mistake to make. Live and learn, right ?

So instead of ASKING PERMISSION for things, and being told what you can and cannot do, relative to what makes her happy,...How about you find a realistic approach on what you want for yourself, your needs, and what feels fair to BOTH parties.
Present her with it as a subject that needs negotiating, not as asking permission for what you want.
If the history you have provided us is true, shit will hit the fan.
As it should.
It`s time to figure out what you are really dealing with. If it`s just a case of a spouse having a greedy time period,...things will blow over, and a mutual agreement, and respect can start.
If this is how it is,...you better find out now so you can make some long-term choices.

The other option is to keep super-calm, super-understanding, and hope that it all sorts itself out. Meanwhile you can read 30 books on compersion, learn to lawn bowl, and waste 3 years of your life driving yourself crazy desiring physical intimacy.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-21-2012, 03:07 AM
Somegeezer's Avatar
Somegeezer Somegeezer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Leeds, UK
Posts: 804
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
When you come here asking for opinions and then say "no" to everyone's input, what can we really say? Are you looking for advice or just people to agree with you?
and also this from SourGirl - "The other option is to keep super-calm, super-understanding, and hope that it all sorts itself out. Meanwhile you can read 30 books on compersion, learn to lawn bowl, and waste 3 years of your life driving yourself crazy desiring physical intimacy. "

As everyone seems to be mentioning. It's obvious. But of course, when you're in that situation, it really is often difficult to see. Take a sit back [literally] and just have a good old think about your life. Where you are, where you want to be, what is the best way to get there?

You really are not happy here right now.

Arguments, I understand. People really don't have a whole lot of grip on their emotional brain. It gets harder to control the more tired, or depressed you are, or even just a little alcohol. It can really make you snap. If that is the case, I'd expect at least an apology for the half hour screaming match. On your part too, as I really doubt you're innocent in it. Even if you don't realise you did anything, it takes very little to trigger some people.

But once you're both calm and have had a good night of sleep and a tasty meal to fill you, both have a good sit down and really talk about what is needed.

You're jealous, she's not helping. She does have the right to sleep with whoever she wishes, as per these "rules" you both agreed on. and you can't ask her to just stop that. I think you should seriously consider equalising the rules though, so they work both ways. If she can have anyone, you can too. Why should you have to go out of town to do so? That's just silly. But she also has a point that you are just feeling sorry for yourself too. Because you don't go out there and find people yourself, doesn't mean she has to take the blame for it. You do have that chance.

As for you and her not having the sex with each other. Why is that? Have you made an effort yourself? How long has it been since you both just relaxed, went out for a meal and movie, and came home to just cuddle on the sofa, with a couple candles laid out? Assuming of course, either of you even enjoys that stuff. I know I do. =P But my point is, get doing some stuff you enjoy doing with each other. People get lazy in relationships and stop trying. The sex she has with this other guy is probably because it's something new and exciting. You did something great to get her to marry you. So you can sure as hell find something to turn her on now. ;]

Good luck and all that.
__________________
[Insert witty comment here]
Feel free to add me up on facebook. - Just click here.
Do send a message in your request saying who you are and that you're from this forum. It will help me filter out any spam requests.
=]
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-21-2012, 04:31 AM
NovemberRain's Avatar
NovemberRain NovemberRain is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 695
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SourGirl View Post
Well, you`re playing the role of the pussy-whipped man.

A role I don't think you initially signed up for, but I hope you see it now.

...

So instead of ASKING PERMISSION for things, and being told what you can and cannot do, relative to what makes her happy,...How about you find a realistic approach on what you want for yourself, your needs, and what feels fair to BOTH parties.
Present her with it as a subject that needs negotiating, not as asking permission for what you want.
I'm guessing her lover doesn't ask her for permission for hardly anything. I'm guessing you didn't ask for permission in the beginning.
Credit to Somegeezer for prompting these thoughts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somegeezer View Post
You did something great to get her to marry you. So you can sure as hell find something to turn her on now. ;]
__________________
Love is that condition in which the happiness of another person is essential to your own...
Robert A. Heinlein

Me: female, bi, (formerly hinge of a vee)
with FirstBoyFriend (FBF)(moderately long-distance)
and no longer with CurrentBoyFriend (CBF)(who lives in the apartment building next door)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-22-2012, 02:48 AM
feelyunicorn feelyunicorn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Brazil
Posts: 151
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
-She can go out and date and have sex while I stay at home with the kids. This has included a couple of weekend trips with her lover.

-I am only allowed to have sex outside the marriage on business trips, not at home. At this point I have not had any success on that front.
So, number one, you accept an inferior agreement the reasons for which you`ve kept under wraps in this thread so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
and not very good at the "pick-up" bar scene anyways.
Number two, you don`t address gender differences.

If anything, if I am going to have an open thing with a woman, we will have to deal with precisely the issue of pick up and gender. And, I would expect an empathic female partner to, at the very least, entertain the perspective that picking up requires a significantly greater expenditure of time, energy and resources for a male than it does for a willing female (assuming we`re talking about casual, heterosexual pick up).

So, if anything, you`re the slower partner, the agreements should be tailored to your needs, IMO.

That`s why I find it difficult to have open arrangements with women who aren`t bisexual. I`d like to hear of examples to the contrary, but basically, all open relationships I`ve seen between heterosexual women and men end up the same way: woman has multiple prospects, man sucks thumb...

Except for mine, I don`t know why. In the two open relationships I`ve had, I had more casual partners than my female counterparts, I believe. But that seems to be an oddity, and I was basically crazy to have gone into it, in retrospect. I was also younger and very actively pursuing women, which, would be hard to keep up at my age.

If the female half in a relationship isn`t a unicorn or wing (and she actively pursues casual sex), it seems almost impossible that the situation won`t revert to the pussy-whipped scenario you find yourself in.

I`m at a loss here, because it also seems that the usual female insistence on emotional connection may even things out in the end (as it did in my ORs). Or, maybe I simply don`t adapt to heterosexual pick up so well, especially nowadays. I also don`t know how much of that is because I am picky about women, in certain very specific ways.

I certainly wouldn`t want to reign in a female partner due to my inability to pick up women. Nor, would I want her to be a wing if she weren`t going to enjoy her pick ups. Hence the bisexual clause, so that pick up is in part a joint effort.
__________________
Independent, sex-positive, bi-curious, private, atheist, elitist, athletic dude.

Last edited by feelyunicorn; 03-22-2012 at 03:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-22-2012, 03:41 AM
AnnabelMore's Avatar
AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,229
Default

Feely, why the heck would you consider a guy "pussy-whipped" if his female partner has more prospects for casual sex than he does? That makes no sense whatsoever to me. "Pussy-whipped" implies that the guy in question is letting his female partner's desires dominate him unfairly. If a woman were not conventionally attractive, or socially awkward, or for some reason had more trouble finding hook-ups than her male partner, would that make her "cock-whipped" or whatever the equivalent would be?

__________________
The major players. Me, 30ish bi female. Gia, girlfriend of 4+ years. Clay, boyfriend/dom. Davis, ex/friend/"it's complicated." Eddie, roommate & fwb.
The supporting cast. Eric, Gia's husband. Bee, Gia and Eric's toddler. Dexter, Gia's lover. Helen, Eric's lover. Izzy and Nikki, Clay's partners. Liam, Eddie's husband.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-22-2012, 03:01 PM
feelyunicorn feelyunicorn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Brazil
Posts: 151
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
Feely, why the heck would you consider a guy "pussy-whipped" if his female partner has more prospects for casual sex than he does? That makes no sense whatsoever to me. "Pussy-whipped" implies that the guy in question is letting his female partner's desires dominate him unfairly. If a woman were not conventionally attractive, or socially awkward, or for some reason had more trouble finding hook-ups than her male partner, would that make her "cock-whipped" or whatever the equivalent would be?

We`ll probably not agree on this, so I will respond once. I was comparing equals.

If I get a goofy girl and a goofy guy, and see who has more prospects for casual sex... If I get an average girl and an average guy, and do the same. If I get Scarlett Johansson and Brad Pitt and do the same...I would think I`d find out the female equal does better each time in the number of available prospects for casual sex.

Though, I will concede that that might also be my perspective as someone who likes roles reversed in the gendered pursuer-pursued schema. Sometimes it appears normative machos (or, even, bread-winning doormats) do better than me in picking up women, sometimes the opposite...it`s hard for me to establish either as a fact; topsy-turvy world. I often times feel like a failure, when the numbers of partners I have had compared to the statistical averages I've read about are wildly successful. I also feel like I pursue women more than women pursue me, but that is also probably untrue and some kind of psychological editing. I`ve only recently become fully aware of how often I reject female attention, how picky I am in my choice of female partners, and my bisexuality, etc.

Now, obviously, if you`re comparing unattractive woman vs. attractive man, I would think the man has a good shot. And, indeed, unattractive women in relationships with attractive men can and do get whipped-equivalent in my observation all the time. I have recently ended a fuck-buddy relationship with a woman whom I would not consider attractive, but who has changed my sex life forever. In my sex life now, there is a "before-her" and an "after-her." And, I saw the opening there to lead her on if I wanted to, but I chose to be honest about my feelings. Which means I lost the sex, but it also means I don`t have to put forth the energy in being a douche (something that does not come naturally). Forgive me the liberty of putting myself on the attractive end of that relationship, it was just a close-to-home example.

Bottom line, if I am going to enter an open relationship, especially with a heterosexual woman (which, at the moment, I avoid), I would expect to move beyond the politically-correct taboo of discussing areas in which women might have an advantage over men.

And, obviously, in an open relationship, casual dating would be one of those areas and a central one to discuss openly and empathically.

It would seem the OP has failed to do that, or stand up for himself in that regard. IMO, that`s why he`s posting while his partner is having orgasms. And, that does feel like being treated unfairly.
__________________
Independent, sex-positive, bi-curious, private, atheist, elitist, athletic dude.

Last edited by feelyunicorn; 03-22-2012 at 03:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-22-2012, 03:19 PM
drtalon's Avatar
drtalon drtalon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 112
Default

completely wrong thread I posted in... apologies!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-22-2012, 10:42 PM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kansas City Metro
Posts: 2,186
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
... and she's communicated that quite clearly.
What she's communicated quite clearly is that she has no respect for you. Your choices can can include standing up and demanding respect, filing for divorce, or taking whatever she dishes out.

You decide.
__________________
When speaking of various forms of non-monogamy...it ain't poly if you're just fucking around.

While polyamory, open relationships, and swinging are all distinctly different approaches to non-monogamy, they are not mutually exlusive. Folks can, and some do, engage in more than one of them at a time--and it's all good.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-23-2012, 12:30 AM
AnnabelMore's Avatar
AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,229
Default

@feely -

Considering that you've explicitly said that you don't intend to engage in a dialogue about this, rather than put a lot of thought into it I'm just going to say that we must have very different ideas about what whipped means. Having different prospects does not mean that one person is whipped in the way I think of the term, any more than a woman would be considered whipped if her male partner gets a high paying corporate job when it might be harder for her, as a woman, to get such a job. Y'know, as long as we're being real about different realities different genders face.
__________________
The major players. Me, 30ish bi female. Gia, girlfriend of 4+ years. Clay, boyfriend/dom. Davis, ex/friend/"it's complicated." Eddie, roommate & fwb.
The supporting cast. Eric, Gia's husband. Bee, Gia and Eric's toddler. Dexter, Gia's lover. Helen, Eric's lover. Izzy and Nikki, Clay's partners. Liam, Eddie's husband.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
boundaries, envy, jealous, jealousy, negotioations

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:05 PM.