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  #251  
Old 03-16-2012, 03:32 PM
Hannahfluke Hannahfluke is offline
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Originally Posted by Phy View Post
Well, not ALL polyfamilies as we moved in Lin right after deciding on giving poly a go. But maybe that's the obligatory exception to the rule. But I have to admit that statistically (going by this forum at least) rushing things is a bad idea.
I wonder if the difference is that you knew Lin for a while before deciding to give poly a go. A lot of people meet the new person and then move them in right away after only knowing them weeks or months. It seems like if you've been friends with someone for years that it will work better than if you barely know them.
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  #252  
Old 03-17-2012, 01:31 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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I wonder if the difference is that you knew Lin for a while before deciding to give poly a go.
Maybe that is it for us as well. Dude has been, for all practical purposes, living with us since he and I "got together" (or a few months before). BUT Dude and MrS were friends for several years before I met Dude. (This is not unusual for us - MrS is much more social than I am, and he's barely social in the first place. By the time MrS introduces me to someone it is a good bet that they are going to fit right it - or he never would have invited them home in the first place.)

******

I think that, maybe, moving in together accelerates whatever dynamic is likely to play out - for good or for ill. We have not been a Vee for that long (a year next month) but spending practically every day together means that issues come up that much sooner and have to be dealt with. We have already dealt with many issues that, perhaps, polyfolks who spend less time together will have spread out over many months or years. (Everything from everyday shit, like who does the shopping and what brand of shampoo we use , to medium shit, like Dude sleeping with his ex [in my BED! ], to major shit, like me getting pregnant and then losing the baby )

Maybe some people benefit from the "take it slow" approach...and others may benefit from the "throw it in and see if it works" approach. It probably depends greatly on the people involved. (Maybe our "slowest person" is actually pretty damn FAST...)

Live your life. Find happiness where you are.

JaneQ
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Me: poly bi female, in an "open-but-not-looking" Vee-plus with -
MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (together 21+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (together 3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS
TT: poly bi male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


My poly blogs on this site:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe
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  #253  
Old 03-18-2012, 08:02 PM
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BlackUnicorn BlackUnicorn is offline
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I feel like you are getting lost and disappearing a little bit into all your concerns for everyone else.

Hullo-o-oooo, where are you?
I don't know. I think I would like most for everyone to be happy, but it seems that all three people can not be happy in this situation at the same time.

Vanilla is questioning whether she wants poly at all, or just open. She wonders on the other hand if it's just Cookie she is incombatible with. She is convinced that things shouldn't be this hard at every possible turn. I've tried to engage her with this forum for comparison's sake - I don't know if she's read anything else than my blog in here. She writes it all out on her personal blog, where her mono friends demonize me and try to convince her that poly/me/Cookie/all three are the problem. She has one beginning-poly friend who is at least a little supportive, but I think there is a consensus that Cookie has to go.

Cookie is at the point where he wants a monoship with a woman he can trust. He is absolutely phobic about catching HIV via Vanilla, in that Vanilla would go down on a woman who was infected, then pass the infection on to me (again via oral sex) and then he would get it and die - we are planning to skip condoms in two weeks or so, once I get my IUD in place. He trusts me but doesn't trust Vanilla. This all blew out in the open today when Vanilla asked via text if it were okay for her to go down on another woman. I said yes - risk of transmission is so low in my POW, especially if you make sure you don't have actually bleeding gums when getting ready for the deed. Cookie, however, doesn't believe the data and is hysterical about the possibility of transmission. That is his right. I also told him that everyone is responsible for their own sexual health, and if he is so worried about STDs, we should continue using condoms. At which point he said that he sees no point in continuing to see me if he must use condoms all the time, since they significantly affect his pleasure.

Vanilla said that since Cookie isn't willing to make any compromises to accommondate us, neither is she willing to use dental dams with her prospective mates. She thinks they would rather not have sex at all if she brought up the dams.

I am at a point where neither one of my partners is willing to make any commitments to increased sexual health. I feel resigned. Perhaps it is better that Cookie and I stop seeing each other. Vanilla I think would prefer open relationships where she wouldn't feel so emotionally threatened. Cookie would prefer a mono woman. I, it seems, am not able to really live up to anyone's expectations.

Sorry for sounding gloomy, but I kinda am.
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  #254  
Old 03-18-2012, 08:56 PM
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What I find hardest at the moment is that I have two people who really don't know what they want out of me atm. Vanilla at first wanted to find a shared boyfriend. Enter Cookie. Then she found Pistachio - by all standards a really bad find: possessive, depressed, mono and jealous. Fine, let her deal with that. Then she got super-anxious over what a bad fit Chio really was, and wanted to be exclusive with Cookie and me. No, actually, Chio was kinda cool, but Cookie obviously wasn't. No, actually, she isn't that into Chio and Cookie is a real problem. She thinks she wants to quit poly, because she can't do it. But now, out of the blue, she wants a triad with this another couple. Or if not a triad, then some really HAWT sex. Cookie needs to leave, because he's to blame for all the drama, and how tired she's been lately because of all the drama.

I get that she has the right to expect "first come, first served"-policy. I get that feelings change, and that reality is much messier and often scarier than fantasy, because reality involves REAL feelings, and people can't be disposed of like a piece of ill-fitting furniture. I get that she only wants to know that if she can't handle poly, we will quit and be mono or open together.

Cookie. 24/7 when we are together, he is constantly sending me the message that I am not what he prefers, seeks and would want. I'm too fat, I have bad posture, not tight enough, not attractive enough, I have too short a hair, he disapproves of the way I use money, he disapproves of my choice with partners, education, work and dress. He is literally constantly listing verbally the kind of ideals he has for a woman, naming women he prefers but can't get because he is too afraid to approach them or they wouldn't want him anyway, and stating that the only reason he is with me is that no other woman will ever want him. If I didn't have such a firm trust in myself as a worthwhile person and a good catch, I would have ditched him by now, like Vanilla did. I'm really tired but want to continue trying. Am I silly for thinking that one day, if I just try hard enough, he will wake up and decide that he wants me after all? Definitely. It doesn't make it any less hard to just give up on him.

I've spent the entire day asking both of them; "What do you want? What can I do?". They don't know. I think they should by now.
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  #255  
Old 03-18-2012, 09:34 PM
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rory rory is offline
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Originally Posted by BlackUnicorn View Post
What I find hardest at the moment is that I have two people who really don't know what they want out of me atm.
An excellent reason why you should concentrate on what you want and what is good for you.

You know one thing that can in no way be good for you? This:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackUnicorn View Post
Cookie. 24/7 when we are together, he is constantly sending me the message that I am not what he prefers, seeks and would want. I'm too fat, I have bad posture, not tight enough, not attractive enough, I have too short a hair, he disapproves of the way I use money, he disapproves of my choice with partners, education, work and dress. He is literally constantly listing verbally the kind of ideals he has for a woman, naming women he prefers but can't get because he is too afraid to approach them or they wouldn't want him anyway, and stating that the only reason he is with me is that no other woman will ever want him. If I didn't have such a firm trust in myself as a worthwhile person and a good catch, I would have ditched him by now, like Vanilla did. I'm really tired but want to continue trying. Am I silly for thinking that one day, if I just try hard enough, he will wake up and decide that he wants me after all? Definitely.
Whatever strength and confidence you have in yourself, this kind of thing is damaging. You do know that already, right?
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  #256  
Old 03-18-2012, 09:49 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Woah woah WOAH.

"He is literally constantly listing verbally the kind of ideals he has for a woman, naming women he prefers but can't get because he is too afraid to approach them or they wouldn't want him anyway, and stating that the only reason he is with me is that no other woman will ever want him."

This whole passage is troubling (well, a LOT of this is, such as Cookie insisting that Vanilla use dental dams so that he can go without condoms... how in the hell is that supposed to be fair? that is just some entitled bullshit, I'm sorry) but that last clause... that last bit about only being with you because he can't get someone else...

God, no. Just no. You deserve better than that. You can set whatever guidelines you want in your intimate life, but if you could only have one I feel like it would need to be "my partners must respect me". And that is one of the most disrespectful, callous, and just plain gross things that someone who's supposed to be a partner could say to you.

Why would you put up with this BU? There are people who would treat you better. Vanilla's indecisiveness is kind of worrying, but she's absolutely right that this is a not-ok pile of drama. No matter how strong your sense of self, it will eventually begin to be worn down by stuff like this and you might not even notice it happening......
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  #257  
Old 03-18-2012, 10:02 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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If you can't bring yourself to break up with him for your own sake, then do it for his sake. If he persists in getting positive reinforcement (emotional engagement, sex) for such messed up behavior it will only make it harder for him to wake up to the fact that it's not ok to treat people like this.
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  #258  
Old 03-18-2012, 11:08 PM
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NovemberRain NovemberRain is offline
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Originally Posted by BlackUnicorn View Post
Cookie. 24/7 when we are together, he is constantly sending me the message that I am not what he prefers, seeks and would want. I'm too fat, I have bad posture, not tight enough, not attractive enough, I have too short a hair, he disapproves of the way I use money, he disapproves of my choice with partners, education, work and dress. He is literally constantly listing verbally the kind of ideals he has for a woman, naming women he prefers but can't get because he is too afraid to approach them or they wouldn't want him anyway, and stating that the only reason he is with me is that no other woman will ever want him. If I didn't have such a firm trust in myself as a worthwhile person and a good catch, I would have ditched him by now, like Vanilla did. I'm really tired but want to continue trying. Am I silly for thinking that one day, if I just try hard enough, he will wake up and decide that he wants me after all? Definitely. It doesn't make it any less hard to just give up on him.
BU, I feel sad when I read this. I lived with a man who did this. About 20 years ago (whoa! I hadn't realized it was so long). Sometimes, I still twitch. It is a wonderful thing that you are secure in yourself. I caution you, because I was secure in myself too, when I met him. I also thought (I cannot convey in words) that if I just tried hard enough...

I'm curious as to why you think Vanilla ditched him because she has less trust in herself as a worthwhile person? Am I understanding that correctly? Because knowing what I know now, I wouldn't even begin to take up with anyone who did that, and/or at the first sign, they'd be out.


All that aside, I entirely agree with rory, that you have
"An excellent reason why you should concentrate on what you want and what is good for you."
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and no longer with CurrentBoyFriend (CBF)(who lives in the apartment building next door)
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  #259  
Old 03-18-2012, 11:56 PM
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BlackUnicorn BlackUnicorn is offline
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Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
Why would you put up with this BU?
I've been thinking a lot today and tonight about how my history of abusive relationships might have sort of prepped me for that. I know how to deal with abuse, I know how to love people who constantly hurt me.

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Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
If he persists in getting positive reinforcement (emotional engagement, sex) for such messed up behavior it will only make it harder for him to wake up to the fact that it's not ok to treat people like this.
Yup, I've been thinking I need to try to solve this situation like I solved it the last time: downsize, distance and deinvest. Atm the positives of this relationship are not outweighing the negatives.

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Originally Posted by NovemberRain View Post
I'm curious as to why you think Vanilla ditched him because she has less trust in herself as a worthwhile person? Am I understanding that correctly? Because knowing what I know now, I wouldn't even begin to take up with anyone who did that, and/or at the first sign, they'd be out.
Yeah, I guess she's the assertive one after all - despite having low self-esteem at times, she can at least recognize BS when she hears it. She thinks her self-esteem is good enough for her to realize that she doesn't have to listen to BS and unfair criticism, so maybe it's really me who has the low self-esteem issue here .

I think I need to work on drawing personal limits for what is acceptable behaviour towards me and what is not, and stop reinforcing the negative behaviours .
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  #260  
Old 03-19-2012, 03:05 AM
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NovemberRain NovemberRain is offline
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I think I need to work on drawing personal limits for what is acceptable behaviour towards me and what is not, and stop reinforcing the negative behaviours .
Hurray! I think so too. I think that would be really a nurturing thing to do for yourself.
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and no longer with CurrentBoyFriend (CBF)(who lives in the apartment building next door)
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