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  #241  
Old 03-14-2012, 11:43 AM
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BlackUnicorn BlackUnicorn is offline
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Originally Posted by rory View Post
I'm wondering, how do you actually behave in NRE? Is that true how Vanilla put it, that you spent a lot of time making out with Cookie?
It's true. I'm a horrible NRE crazy inconsiderate person .

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Originally Posted by rory View Post
I don't think it would really solve anything for you to only see Cookie when Vanilla is unavailable. It only puts off dealing with the issue, whether the issue is that she feels uncomfortable seeing you in NRE with somebody else or that you neglect her when you're in NRE with somebody else (do you know which one it is, the issue?).
I think it's me neglecting her. Yeah, maybe me being an arse is not her responsibility to manage, but I think it would be beneficial to calm things down for a bit, like until the end of this month, before inviting Cookie over to hang with us again. I'm looking forward to our trip together with Vanilla, which will hopefully generate a lot of positive energy and good, happy memories between just the two of us.

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Say, you and Cookie met with a good friend of yours and had coffee all three of you. Whatever you think could (reasonably) make your friend uncomfortable, you should consider stuff that may make Vanilla feel uncomfortable. Your friend would assumably be fine with you hugging or kissing briefly a few times, but not with foreplay. So, even if you do sometimes have hot threesomes, it is still the case that when you're out and about Vanilla can feel like a third wheel if you have your tongue in his mouth for the whole evening. Or what do you think?
This is really good advice. Me and Vanilla have very different ideas in what comes to PDA. I tend to think making out in an club environment is okay, whereas she is uncomfortable even with kisses on the mouth in public.

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Oh, and really? You think all three of you moving in at this point would be a good idea?
Oh my, where did you get that idea ? Have I posted something crazy I can't remember anymore? Now, def not moving in together anytime soon . We all enjoy our space as it is, and we barely just moved in with Vanilla to our new apt.
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  #242  
Old 03-14-2012, 04:12 PM
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rory rory is offline
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Oh thank god, I must have then misunderstood you (I think from this)
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... for Cookie not to start moving into our place,...
I think taking time for the two of you can't be a bad thing to calm things down. Though, I think it would be even more important to Vanilla to see that you can take her into account also when Cookie is around and not just when it's the two of you.

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Originally Posted by Phy View Post
I disagree as I know how I can be at times without having any bad intentions. I sometimes don't get it. It's as simple as that. I sometimes need someone pointing out to me what I have caused by behaving like this or like that. Therefore, no, it shouldn't be a responsibility, but it can help to bear in mind if a person is bad at picking up signals from others in special situations. I am often made aware of my shortcomings in regard to interaction with others, and I am extremely thankful to my close friends and family minding it.
I don't particularly disagree with you. I guess it's about some kind of balance though. It is unreasonable to expect anybody to be completely mindful in every situation, and one should speak up. However, I do think it isn't the best dynamic if one has to constantly prod a person to get their attention/regard. Oh and yeah, you haven't had poly-drama (I knew there must be an exception to the rule and I must be forgetting some situation).

BU, good luck
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  #243  
Old 03-14-2012, 08:35 PM
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BlackUnicorn BlackUnicorn is offline
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Oh thank god, I must have then misunderstood you (I think from this)
Oh, that was more proverbial, as in "He's been staying overnight three nights in a row, don't you think he's practically living in here? Maybe he could go home for a few nights."

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BU, good luck
Thanks . I like to believe it takes practice more than sheer luck, but appreciate the thought.
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  #244  
Old 03-15-2012, 01:08 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Originally Posted by Phy View Post
...I sometimes don't get it. It's as simple as that. I sometimes need someone pointing out to me what I have caused by behaving like this or like that. Therefore, no, it shouldn't be a responsibility, but it can help to bear in mind if a person is bad at picking up signals from others in special situations. I am often made aware of my shortcomings in regard to interaction with others, and I am extremely thankful to my close friends and family minding it...there are situations I don't get the reason why someone is upset by something I did or said. And it is helpful to be reminded of that.
It took me a while, and some frustration, to realize that I had to communicate with Dude in a different "language" than I use with MrS. He is absolutely horrible with picking up any signals that aren't flashing neon with a siren blaring (especially if it is a circumstance where he wouldn't be upset, then he doesn't see why anyone would be upset). Apparently it never occurred to him, or he has never experienced a relationship, where someone could just state their feelings without having a hissy-fit/temper-tantrum and still expect to have those feelings respected. (Not saying this is you, dear BlackUnicorn)

An example, the way the house is set up whenever I get up off the couch (where my computer is) and go to the kitchen or beer fridge or library, I pass behind the boys' computer chairs. Dude would inevitable grab me for a kiss/cuddle every time I walked by (either direction). One night I was trying to get stuff done and had to get up every few minutes to go dig up something in the library. After a while the constant interruption was getting distracting so I said "Dude, this is annoying, you don't have to kiss me everytime I get off the couch - I'm trying to get stuff done." Next time - he reaches for me again - now I am getting pissed...

A while later I bring it up as an example of a time when he didn't listen to me and he says "But you weren't really annoyed. You were just teasing." I had to explain in detail that, yes, I was annoyed - he was impeding me getting something done that I felt was important. And the way that you can tell is that I SAID I was annoyed. I asked him if I had ever before TOLD him that I was annoyed? He admitted that, no, I had not, but that HE would not be annoyed by that, so he didn't think that I should be. Grrrr...I told him that in the future if I said I was annoyed he should just take it at face value and not wait until I got mad and made a scene before he believed me.

(It helps to know that I hate confrontation and will NOT make a scene if there are any "outsiders" present.")

Second example of different communication styles. We (all three) are out at a bar at the local casino. We were having fun but the boys were getting drunk...and loud. This is a town where I work so I feel the need to be a little discrete. With MrS - I can raise my eyebrows, give his hand a firm squeeze, and, looking him directly in the eye say quietly, but firmly, "Enough." And the message is conveyed. With Dude it progressed through: "Enough." "Dude you are making me uncomfortable and it is pissing me off." to taking him aside and saying "I am mad at you and if you continue to behave in this fashion I am going to leave." And he still didn't get it because he didn't see a problem...Double Grrrr....we had a LONG discussion about this one the next day.

Now, before you say "Jeesh, how do you put up with THAT!?" A nice thing, though, is that once Dude has processed what you have said - once you spell it out in excrutiating detail as to WHY you were annoyed/upset/mad and what specific behavior you want changed...and he actually understands the effect that it has on you - then it's DONE. You will never have that misunderstanding again, and THAT is nice.

(So ... MrS will change his behavior at that moment because you want him to, but because he may not understand the underlying reasons, you may have to ask again later. Dude doesn't change the behavior until he understands the underlying reasons, but then then he gets the message permanently...each of these has its advantages but I have to learn how to communicate with each person in the way that they understand.)

Sorry for the essay - but I was actually just thinking about this today and your post hit a nerve.

JaneQ
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MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (21+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS (1+ years)
TT: poly bi male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


My poly blogs here:
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  #245  
Old 03-15-2012, 10:42 AM
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rory rory is offline
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Originally Posted by BlackUnicorn View Post
Thanks . I like to believe it takes practice more than sheer luck, but appreciate the thought.
I agree with you, so I'll rephrase: good practicing!
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  #246  
Old 03-15-2012, 05:56 PM
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BlackUnicorn BlackUnicorn is offline
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Default Scheduling mess

I've been having a real hard time at school. Yesterday, on Wed, I was supposed to go spend the night with Cookie and Vanilla was going to be with her beau Pistachio. On Tuesday I realized that on Wed, I would be happy to get home after 11 pm, with so much schoolwork piling up. So I texted to Vanilla and asked if I should go to Cookie's on Thu instead. Vanilla's mum was coming over on Thu, so I thought it would be cool to get out of her way. Vanilla responded that she saw no reason why her mum and I couldn't hang out in the same space, but that she could always ask her mum. I took this, for some reason, as a go ahead-sign.

So, come this morning (Thu). Vanilla climbs to bed with me after her night with Chio and we talk. I say I'm happy she came for a morning cuddle because we are not going to see each other again before tomorrow, Friday. Vanilla says no way she is going to sleep four nights apart, and insists that we specifically agreed that there should be no overnight dates this week, because she is going to her parents' for the weekend. Should I have gone to Cookie's tonight, we would have slept four nights apart (Wed, Thu, Fri, Sat).

I'm upset because I thought we agreed that because of deadlines, I changed my night with Cookie from Wed to Thu, and she's upset because she thinks I've gone against her specific request not to have any overnight dates this week. She was okay with us both spending the night with our respective beaus on Wed, because today we would sleep in the same bed before she goes away. Last night, when I came home instead of going to Cookie's, she assumed I had simply skipped seeing Cookie before her trip because of school. She argued that since me and Cookie were going to have the whole weekend to ourselves anyway, I could postpone gratification on this one. I argued that since Cookie works during the day and I have to work both on Fri night and the whole of Saturday, the whole weekend would mean a few short hours together before she comes home on Sun. I'm extra pissed because I know Cookie and I won't see each other again before my trip with Vanilla next week.

I text to Cookie and cancel our date. He responds that he is upset and disappointed and feels unsafe in a configuration where one person can call off dates between the other two entirely arbitrarily whenever she wants to. I texted back that it was I who was communicating badly and making spur-of-the-moment decisions, and just got off the phone with him where I explained in detail what went down. Vanilla offered to have Cookie over on Mon before our trip, for all of us three to hang out, since she misses him, too.

No major drama, just a minor hiccup, but now we have a reservation system where I mark down my date nights with Cookie to the family planner on the wall in advance and we agreed that I would let Vanilla know before I make any changes to prior plans.
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  #247  
Old 03-15-2012, 06:04 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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I hate miscommunication over scheduling SNAFUs, because no one wins. Just something more to discuss as a group on how to handle better next time.
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  #248  
Old 03-16-2012, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by SNeacail View Post
I hate miscommunication over scheduling SNAFUs, because no one wins. Just something more to discuss as a group on how to handle better next time.
I had to google SNAFU, it's brilliant! Sweetheart is always teaching me new slang expressions, like cup of joe. And what do you know, I was watching Twin Peaks the other night and Agent Cooper used it right there! LUR-VE Agent Cooper >sigh<...

Anyway, I digress. Vanilla's mum was over last night, and for reasons unknown to God and man, I had a complete wedding freak-out, which progresses into an hour long whispering discussion on hierarchies in poly with Vanilla at 00.30 with her mum, aka The Lady with the Super Hearing, sleeping in the next room.

(While I don't like the way Vanilla's mum treats her some times, I do appreciate how she at least is making an effort to get to know me.)

So, at midnight, a crazy thought pops into my head. Maybe we shouldn't invite any of our other partners to the wedding, because it's about us, right? What if Vanilla freaks out over me giving a hug to Cookie (or anyone else I might be with at that time)? Vanilla: "If you are worried you might not know how to act around our other partners on OUR wedding day, better we don't have the wedding until you know". Fine.

My biggest problem with this hierarchy thing is that I need specifics. I need to know what she wants on concrete terms, and need to figure out if I am compatible with that. So, we are primaries to each other. What does that mean? "It means no one will ever come before me". Well, can anyone be on an equal level with you? "I want us to be the core couple". What does that mean? "I want us to get married, live together, have kids, grow old together". Can someone come in at some point to also live with us, have kids and grow old together? "Maybe, but if in the retirement home there are only two-person rooms, you better be damn sure I'm going to be the one in that room with you!"

So we have a new hierarchy rule. In case of two-person rooms only, we are in that room together .

(The wedding is still on, provided I can imagine myself in the future sticking to the two-person room rule. I felt better after my wedding freakout when I went through a mental list with Vanilla on all the stuff we need to do. And kissing other partners on the mouth at our wedding is not okay, but pecks on the cheeks are good. And we will not be seated separately, but with our close family all at the same table, which will include any close family-like partners we might have at that point. I crave specifics, you know?)
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  #249  
Old 03-16-2012, 09:15 AM
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I think it must be good to have those specific discussion. One issue with primary/secondary is that those terms seem to be used in different ways by people, so it's good to clarify what exactly is included.

One thing that came to mind: what is it that you want? You seem to be writing and discussing about what Vanilla wants, but not your own wishes. Make sure not to ignore those (advice about something I am working towards getting better at myself).
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  #250  
Old 03-16-2012, 03:31 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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One thing that came to mind: what is it that you want? You seem to be writing and discussing about what Vanilla wants, but not your own wishes.
^This is exactly what I was thinking when I read your last few posts. I feel like you are getting lost and disappearing a little bit into all your concerns for everyone else.

Hullo-o-oooo, where are you?
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