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  #131  
Old 03-11-2012, 03:37 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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First, sorry wasn't my intention to upset you.

In the phrase back to back I was thinking of encounters close together time wise. You have sex with one ...enjoy the moment, sleep a little, then get up, grab a snack, hydrate, check phone and email and go find the other. This what I would consider back to back. Having sex with one in the morning and the other in the evening I wouldn't see as back to back. With in a short period of time from leaving one and starting with another.


Again wasn't implying anyone was a pack animal just wondered why or how if its bring up these feelings what greater feeling is over riding them. I was just thinking out loud. And I'm sure I've thought of sex as time filler....once in a blackout I know I suggested it ..it was fun too.

Could I do what you do ....doubt it ....1) physiology and 2) I tend leave it all there emotional, ....mind and body. Switching gears ..starting over would be very difficult for me.
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  #132  
Old 03-11-2012, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
First, sorry wasn't my intention to upset you.
No harm done, it got me thinking which was actually good to encounter the root of the possible problem.

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Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
And I'm sure I've thought of sex as time filler....once in a blackout I know I suggested it ..it was fun too.

Could I do what you do ....doubt it ....1) physiology and 2) I tend leave it all there emotional, ....mind and body. Switching gears ..starting over would be very difficult for me.
That would be something I could hardly do, if I think about it. It would be totally against my nature or style. I am in the mood or I am not, but getting in the mood when or even because I am bored and lazy ... no, I don't think that will ever happen.

Maybe you can think of it as some kind of additional gear already put on. It's not always the case but even if I am emotionally totally drained by the 'first encounter', there are still those emotions that can't be satisfied by sleeping with the respective other. It's the same kind of mechanism that prevents me from satisfying the need for one by being with the other. If I long for Lin, Sward can be as attentive and sweet and lovely and whatnot, this won't go away because of him trying to fill that void.

It was a huge problem when we were still separated and Lin was far away. Sometimes I stayed up longer just to prevent lying next to Sward as I knew that he wouldn't be the one I was longing for. That's why I think of comments stating that I will be well off in any situation as there is always one of my loves there to tend to me to be kind of wrong. This just won't do.

But I digress. What I wanted to say: It doesn't feel like switching gears and starting all over. At times like yesterday both urges are there simultaneously, if I satisfy one, there is still the one that was left alone during that time. And this one won't go away by itself.
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  #133  
Old 03-11-2012, 05:47 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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When you stayed up late to avoid contact with your husband because you longed for Lin ...could this be sorta the opposite of that. Primary or most pressing urge satisfied then work to complete the others?
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  #134  
Old 03-11-2012, 06:08 PM
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The two aren't always there simultaneously. I just had to smile because I have had a hard time already explaining the way my mind and feelings work to Sward and Lin. But I will try again.

Basically, there are three stages of the need for physical expressions of my feelings: exclusively Sward, exclusively Lin, both of them at the same time. Each relationship has it's own dynamic and pace and it isn't the case that when I am in the mood for one I am automatically in the mood for the other as well. Therefore there was no other urge to satisfy during those nights I stayed awake to wait for my feelings to calm down. The possibility of something in the direction of Sward developing afterwards was possible, but not a must.

There is no primary urge that is more pressing than the other(s) in the case of me longing for both. If I am in that kind of state, first come, first served. It's not all the same for me on the one hand, but on the other … it is. As soon as I really get things started with one, the other urge is in some kind of waiting position, without me still noticing. I am always totally concentrated on my current partner, it never happened that I unconsciously thought of the other, but as soon as one side of the urge has been satisfied, the other comes knocking at my door. I am not calm afterwards, there is still something I want. This wouldn't be the case if it had been directed towards one of them right from the start.

Geez, this sounds so technical and strange … I hope it makes sense. *scratches head*
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  #135  
Old 03-12-2012, 04:01 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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The two aren't always there simultaneously. *

What two ?

How did you decide which one you wanted to be with first ?... in the example you gave. that's what I meant by primary urge.


I'm confused .."there is no primary urge that is more pressing than the other in the case of me longing for both." You said while longing for lin ...you avoided being intimate with Sward because he wouldn't be able to satisfy that longing. In that specific example wouldn't that be the primary urge?

Does the schedule ever conflict with your urges? And what about their urges...do they every conflict with yours and the schedule?
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  #136  
Old 03-12-2012, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
How did you decide which one you wanted to be with first ?... in the example you gave. that's what I meant by primary urge.

I'm confused .."there is no primary urge that is more pressing than the other in the case of me longing for both." You said while longing for lin ...you avoided being intimate with Sward because he wouldn't be able to satisfy that longing. In that specific example wouldn't that be the primary urge?
DH, I think I understand Phy on this. Phy, correct me if I'm wrong on anything. First of all, the most important thing to get out of the way is when Phy said "Punctuation marks are no pack animals" in her response to you, DH, she was referring to how you used four question marks in a row! LOL

Okay, on to other things. Phy said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phy View Post
The two aren't always there simultaneously...

Basically, there are three stages of the need for physical expressions of my feelings: exclusively Sward, exclusively Lin, both of them at the same time. Each relationship has it's own dynamic and pace and it isn't the case that when I am in the mood for one I am automatically in the mood for the other as well. Therefore there was no other urge to satisfy during those nights I stayed awake to wait for my feelings to calm down. The possibility of something in the direction of Sward developing afterwards was possible, but not a must.

There is no primary urge that is more pressing than the other(s) in the case of me longing for both. If I am in that kind of state, first come, first served. It's not all the same for me on the one hand, but on the other … it is. As soon as I really get things started with one, the other urge is in some kind of waiting position, without me still noticing.
OK, so sometimes Phy feels a sexual urge for Sward only, sometimes for Lin only, and sometimes for both of them. At those times when she only feels it for one of them, she knows the other will not satisfy that longing, so she avoids being with the one she doesn't feel an urge for. During those times when she desires both of them, it's "first come, first served," "no primary urge," which I take to mean that she doesn't have a preference but availability and circumstance play a part in which one of them she is with first. Maybe it's just not a big deal for her to decide who to be with first, when she wants both of them. It's probably something spontaneous.

Then, whomever she is with at any given time, she is focused and totally with him, so she's not thinking about her urge for one when she is with the other. After being with one of them, the urge for the other will rise up in her if it's one of those times she started out wanting both of them. Or, if she only wanted to be with one from the start, a new urge for the other might suddenly happen, or might not.

In the post where Phy said she felt uncomfortable with one of them knowing she's just been with the other and you, Dinged, said "if it feels bad why do it back to back?" meaning "if it feels bad, why be with one right after you've been with another?" I didn't get the sense that she necessarily felt bad about it, but that she noticed a hesitation to share with Lin any details about her time with Sward, and a sense that she didn't want to hurt anyone by talking about it, and she was questioning why it made her a bit uncomfortable.


So, Phy, I think when you realized that that monogamy still influences you, that is a good thing to be aware of. But it is also a perfectly reasonable and valid choice to manage your two relationships separately, and to respect the intimacy and heartfelt things you share with each of them separately. Just because you are in love and involved with two men who live with you, does not mean that each of them have to have access to all your private thoughts and moments with the other.
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  #137  
Old 03-12-2012, 09:30 PM
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*sigh* Way to go; you just got right to each point I was trying to make. I should let you explain and clear any further misunderstandings there may be
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  #138  
Old 03-13-2012, 03:28 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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In a nut shell you didn't or don't get uncomfortable having back to back sexual encounters its the talking about the previous encounter that's uncomfortable. Right .

My confusion was centered around these two sentences....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phy View Post
Lastly: your first suggestion ... wasn't that far off, even though I got the feeling you are hinting in a different direction.

But you hit a point there. I think that I am still, in a strange way, in my mono-mindset about things that can be done or shouldn't be done.

I wasn't far off ...by accident ?

Has this all morphed form the time you started thinking and talking about it or just came into focus?
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  #139  
Old 03-13-2012, 04:46 PM
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Well, I hope we get to the root of our misunderstanding finally .

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In a nut shell you didn't or don't get uncomfortable having back to back sexual encounters its the talking about the previous encounter that's uncomfortable. Right .
Right, that was what I was talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
I wasn't far off ...by accident ?

Has this all morphed form the time you started thinking and talking about it or just came into focus?
The moment you suggested something that felt to be off point I was able to corner the root of my discomfort with what you said and the general situation at hand. What I understood your comment meant was expressed in this post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phy View Post
Lastly: your first suggestion ... wasn't that far off, even though I got the feeling you are hinting in a different direction. No, I am not sleeping with each of them because I feel that it is fair to do so.
[...]
But you hit a point there. I think that I am still, in a strange way, in my mono-mindset about things that can be done or shouldn't be done.
[...]
2) I personally still know that it is hurtful if a partner sleeps and loves another. That is what I grew up with and even though I know that 1) has changed, I haven't adapted to a change of 2) as well. There is still a part of me that isn't able to think in 'poly-structures' and backs off if a situation comes up where I would have to fear (according to the old rules) overstepping a line and doing something 'not fair' to my love(s).
I know that this isn't the case concerning Sward and Lin, they don't feel that way, but as I am always the one 'on the other side' of everything, I am not the receiver, I am the one doing and not the one experiencing it, therefore I can't comprehend how they feel and still assume that they have to see things like I was used to see them back then.

It's one of my major faults: I always assume what others may think based on my way of thinking, my feelings in that situation and so on. I know that this is the normal process of empathy, but I tend to be unable to imagine other possible ways of coping and experiencing a situation and I always assume that I am right ^.^ Therefore there tends to be only 'my truth' and I can't accept that others may feel differently if I am convinced that my way of receiving things is the only 'reasonable' one. That's the main reason for the 'mono-mindset' when I think about reactions, thoughts and feelings of my two men.

That's why I think it is reasonable to say that the problem has been always there and may only really dissolve if I would ever be in the situation to experience what it feels like to have a metamour and experiencing 'sharing' a partner with someone. Did I ever mention that I tend to be stubborn as a mule with convictions once embraced? It's a real hassle from time to time with my mind.

The main reason for this confusion may be the nature of our relationship. We mingled mono and poly structures, there are many old things that are still true and there are many new things that are as well. Some seem contradictory, some exists peacefully next to each other. Problem is finding and eliminating the ones that are part of the monogamous-till-death-do-part-us-myth, that in a way never have been appliable to our relationship, which weren't detected by us because they didn't have any points in our everyday life they contradicted themself with. This changed the moment poly entered the picture. We are still in the process of figuring out, what our new 'truths' concerning relationships and the way to handle everyday life is. We will see where we are lead to and what we will discover.

Did this answer the question or are there new points I just made unnecessary complicated? I have to go right now, I will check in again later to confuse you even more
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  #140  
Old 03-14-2012, 01:44 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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I think you're right about the added complexity of co mingling of relationship styles and the tendency to second guess how everyone "must " be feeling or thinking from years of societal programing ....jokes about sloppy seconds and the like.

I don't however think that its a given that by you being second in line in a similar situation would automatically dissolve the problem. It could reenforce your opinion or belief. You may hate it and never be OK with it. Which is fine. And this would goes to your point about how you see things...your truth.
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