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  #61  
Old 03-11-2012, 04:43 PM
KyleKat KyleKat is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Again, you word it as if the wife is a piece of property that belongs to the husband and is his to share, when she has her own mind and makes her own choices. Though a couple will make agreements to work it out or not, both people make their own choices to stay or go, or whatever.

Many men don't see it as threatening when their female partners hook up with another woman, yet see other men as a threat. Ultimately, such thinking (yes, it can be called sexist) belittles and dismisses the potential emotional involvement a woman can feel for another woman. Your wife could fall in love and leave you for a woman just as much as she could for another man. So it's a house of cards to tell yourself that a "feminine energy" isn't as much of an intrusion/change/influence/threat to the dynamic of your marriage as "masculine energy" would be. The real work to make a poly relationship successful wouldn't center around what gender or biological sex your partner's other partners are, but the communication you have with each other, level of self-understanding, and willingness to support each other on the journey.
I don't see it that way. I've been told that many times by many girlfriends. "I could leave you for the girl I meet". Okay, you could also leave me for non-sexual or romantic reasons. I don't see women as a threat because I don't believe that people are limited to one love and I don't see homosexual relationships as the same as heterosexual. It's not sexist. I'm not saying that they are better or worse, but I couldn't offer my wife the same thing as a girl can and she can't offer what I can. My question is why someone would pick if given the option to have both and genuinely enjoyed both.

I helps that I find girl-on-girl insanely attractive (hey, I am a guy! We are all idiots). I was going to say something else too but forgot.
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Kyle: 27 year old male
Katie (rymmare): 25 year old female
Kids: girl: 5 years old, boy: 3 years old
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  #62  
Old 03-11-2012, 04:47 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Hi KyleKat,
My previous post was directed to SoCalDoc, whom I quoted, not to you.
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An excellent blog post against hierarchy in polyamory: http://solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-i...short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 03-11-2012 at 04:51 PM.
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  #63  
Old 03-11-2012, 04:51 PM
KyleKat KyleKat is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
My previous post was directed to SoCalDoc, whom I quoted, not to you.
I know. Just giving my perspective on why I agree with him as far as girl-girl not feeling as threatening. I do think he made girls sound like property, which I addressed in my previous post.
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Kyle: 27 year old male
Katie (rymmare): 25 year old female
Kids: girl: 5 years old, boy: 3 years old
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  #64  
Old 03-11-2012, 06:28 PM
bookbug bookbug is offline
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KyleKat,

I've read through this very long discussion. :-) First of all kudos to you. You are handling this beautifully despite the occasional emotional sneak attacks.

Like you, I don't tend to be a jealous person. I think in a lot of instances in polyamorous situations, there can be jealousy, but there can also be emotions mistaken for jealousy. In your case, you miss your wife. Understandable. You'd miss her if she were off on a business trip (or some such) too. However, it seems to me that a lot of people would make the mistake of misconstruing the missing her with jealousy because of the nature of her vacation. Which can lead a person down the road to all sorts of psychological hell, based on an inaccurate analysis. You aren't doing that. You understand the difference.

Likewise, you've discovered the physical parameters that can make you susceptible to coping poorly ~ lack of sleep and alcohol. While I know this isn't easy for you, the fact that you can sort out these nuances is remarkable.
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  #65  
Old 03-11-2012, 06:43 PM
SoCalDoc SoCalDoc is offline
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In this context, the use of the term "property" is offensive to me. My concept of marriage includes the idea that each person gives up certain freedoms in exchange for mutual devotion and commitment. There is no unilateral control or authority--yuck! My wife is not a piece of property (yuck!) but we do "belong" to one another in a symmetric and profoundly romantic way. I suppose someone could twist this into something negative--do so if you must.
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  #66  
Old 03-11-2012, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalDoc View Post
My wife is not a piece of property (yuck!) but we do "belong" to one another in a symmetric and profoundly romantic way. I suppose someone could twist this into something negative--do so if you must.
SoCalDoc, I was not assuming that you think of your wife as property or treat her as such. What I said wasn't about your situation/relationship. My post was a response about a general attitude that reads as possessiveness/ownership, which came across via the language in some of the posts you made earlier in this thread, and in this comment:
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Originally Posted by SoCalDoc View Post
...I find myself wondering why guys get married if they plan to share their wives w other dudes.
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The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post against hierarchy in polyamory: http://solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-i...short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 03-11-2012 at 07:39 PM.
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  #67  
Old 03-11-2012, 07:26 PM
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Arrowbound Arrowbound is offline
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Originally Posted by SoCalDoc View Post
I must admit though, I find myself wondering why guys get married if they plan to share their wives w other dudes. Maybe it's related to having kids or maybe the poly desires arise after they're married. This is probably just me layering my judgements and preferences onto other people.
But... why did you get married planning to 'share' your wife with other women? That's completely different?
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  #68  
Old 03-11-2012, 08:06 PM
KyleKat KyleKat is offline
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Originally Posted by bookbug View Post
KyleKat,

I've read through this very long discussion. :-) First of all kudos to you. You are handling this beautifully despite the occasional emotional sneak attacks.

Like you, I don't tend to be a jealous person. I think in a lot of instances in polyamorous situations, there can be jealousy, but there can also be emotions mistaken for jealousy. In your case, you miss your wife. Understandable. You'd miss her if she were off on a business trip (or some such) too. However, it seems to me that a lot of people would make the mistake of misconstruing the missing her with jealousy because of the nature of her vacation. Which can lead a person down the road to all sorts of psychological hell, based on an inaccurate analysis. You aren't doing that. You understand the difference.

Likewise, you've discovered the physical parameters that can make you susceptible to coping poorly ~ lack of sleep and alcohol. While I know this isn't easy for you, the fact that you can sort out these nuances is remarkable.
Exactly! And thanks for all the compliments. Ive been trying to think of it more as a business trip, just due to the fact that its those aspects of the relationshpp that are the most trying. The distance, limited availability, and an overall change in our schedule. She would tell you I am extremely schedule oriented. Things have to be done my way. Unfortunately, I'm also ridiculously flippant and my hobbies and interests change on a frequent basis. How she keeps up is beyond me.

I tell you, as it nears Tuesday I keep finding myself apprehensive about our discussions when she returns. This is all still very new to us and I just want the poly thing to work. It seems to be a very fine line between poly and going from partner a to partner b. I would be devestated if I lost her over this and even though they both have assured me that's not a possibility it still sits in the back of my mind. Having others remind me of what I already know helps to squash those fears. So thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalDoc View Post
In this context, the use of the term "property" is offensive to me. My concept of marriage includes the idea that each person gives up certain freedoms in exchange for mutual devotion and commitment. There is no unilateral control or authority--yuck! My wife is not a piece of property (yuck!) but we do "belong" to one another in a symmetric and profoundly romantic way. I suppose someone could twist this into something negative--do so if you must.
It appears we misunderstood. Yes, marriage is about compromise. But there is no compromise here. She wants to be with him, I want her to be with him and b happy. It works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
SoCalDoc, I was not assuming that you think of your wife as property or treat her as such. What I said wasn't about your situation/relationship. My post was a response about a general attitude that reads as possessiveness/ownership, which came across via the language in some of the posts you made earlier in this thread, and in this comment:
It does come off that way, but I think you and I both need to remember this is a forum and words are easily read with the wrong tone. we are all friends here, no need to continue this argument if he says his intentions were pure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrowbound View Post
But... why did you get married planning to 'share' your wife with other women? That's completely different?
To him, and most men, it is. Read what I put a few posts back. That's how a lot of people feel.
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"Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is the regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable." - Sydney Smith

Kyle: 27 year old male
Katie (rymmare): 25 year old female
Kids: girl: 5 years old, boy: 3 years old
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  #69  
Old 03-11-2012, 08:26 PM
SoCalDoc SoCalDoc is offline
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"But... why did you get married planning to 'share' your wife with other women? That's completely different?"

I acknowledged that this may seem like a contradiction--perhaps it is. Few things... First of all, my wife just recently discovered that she's bi, so this wasn't part of the "plan" when we got married. In fact, up until very recently I never would have imagined that we would someday consider opening up our marriage. Secondly, there's a big difference--this is just my own opinion--between my wife having a poly relationship w another woman versus another man. Both involve risks, but I'm willing to accept the risks and potential threat of a same sex relationship because another woman offers my wife something which I simply cannot. BTW, my wife and I are working through this, and we haven't yet reached a decision. She's trying to sort out how strongly she desires a bi relationship, and whether this desire might rise to the level of "need".
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  #70  
Old 03-11-2012, 08:42 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleKat View Post
It does come off that way, but I think you and I both need to remember this is a forum and words are easily read with the wrong tone. we are all friends here, no need to continue this argument if he says his intentions were pure.
I know this is a forum, I know tone gets misconstrued, and I'm not arguing anything. I'm discussing and sharing my viewpoints and opinions. SoCalDoc responded to my post and I saw that my words had been misunderstood, so I clarified. You responded to me earlier, and I clarified. It's a conversation. People post, other people respond, it goes back and forth like that. Anybody here can add to the thread and follow tangents (if not too far off), even if it gets heated and emotional, as long as it's respectful. If you want to have control over a thread, you can ask the Moderators to move it to the Blogs and Life Stories forum, where debate is not allowed.
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The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post against hierarchy in polyamory: http://solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-i...short-version/
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