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  #1  
Old 03-06-2012, 08:18 AM
Precious1 Precious1 is offline
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Default Midnight Ramblings - STDs, communication

Forgive an incoherent midnight rambling...
Feeling like I need to start relationship counseling to sort through my insecurities....
Background: I a monogamish poly in an essentially monogamous relationship. My only intimate partner "S" is married and has two partners (me & his wife), my "wife-in-law" has multiple partners. I have been the hinge in Vee relationships with mono men prior (essentially, reality would take too long).

I feel like I need to put their relationship first before my own needs, and an insecure that if they ever break up that my guilt that I will have caused or escalated issues and do not think I could survive that with my part of the relationship intact.
S says they have a strong marriage. I believe he believes that; she is unwilling to talk to me so I do not have opportunity to ask her about *any* of my concerns.. hence feeling like I am pushing issues that might not otherwise come to a head.

I am STD risk averse, having taught prevention courses & treated many who failed to follow them. S and I are fluid bonded. S has agreed to biannual testing. She still has not gone. S had not had relations with her since we fluid bonded. I believe he avoids it so he does not have to address the fluid bonding with me/testing issue and confrontation that will arise when he insists on condom use with her. Ideally, I would like to see neg test papers on all my extended sexual partners - as far out as her OSOs, or at least see her results regularly and have my own knowledge that safer sex practices are adhered to (better than just second hand that he says she says she does) and that she understands what good safer sex practices are (he didn't even have knowledge of dental dams for oral.)

S and I are making plans for a commitment ceremony later next year, and we would like to eventually/ideally see a co-housing arrangement. She knows about the ceremony plans and he says she's not freaked about that or my plans to take his name... but has no idea if she might even be open to co-housing.

He has agreed that if I ever hit a big lottery jackpot we can have a child together. I'm sure that never came up in conversation. Yeah, the odds are against it ever happening.. but a peri-menopausal woman can dream, and buy an occasional ticket.

Enough rambling for one night.. work in the morning, thus sleep beckons me.

~Precious
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  #2  
Old 03-06-2012, 06:54 PM
faraday faraday is offline
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Wow... I would be very worried if I was in your shoes. You are making all kinds of plans (and taking actions, like fluid bonding) without talking to or even really thinking about his wife. That seems like it's going to blow up.

I would be very upset if my partner decided to become fluid bonded with another and didn't talk with me about it. Not to mention making plans to move in.

How do you feel about this level of communication? Would you be okay with S treating you the way he is treating his wife? Do you want to live with him and his wife? It seems like a big commitment with someone you didn't feel the need to share big life decisions with.

You feel like you need to put there relationship first... but you decided to stop using protection and change the kind of sex they have within there marriage (He needs to start using condoms with her) without talking with her about it? She still doesn't know that they two of you made this choice for her? That doesn't sound like you putting there relationship first... honestly that doesn't sound like you were thinking about there relationship at all.

Last edited by faraday; 03-06-2012 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:06 PM
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SourGirl SourGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faraday View Post
How do you feel about this level of communication? Would you be okay with S treating you the way he is treating his wife?
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by faraday View Post
You feel like you need to put there relationship first... but you decided to stop using protection and change the kind of sex they have within there marriage (He needs to start using condoms with her) without talking with her about it? She still doesn't know that they two of you made this choice for her? That doesn't sound like you putting there relationship first... honestly that doesn't sound like you were thinking about there relationship at all.
Agreed.

Although I think the condom-issue was born out of self-preservation, and rightly so, if the wife won`t talk to her. However, in my world, fucking does not happen AT ALL unless I know what page everyone else is on, and they know what page I am on.

I also remember when I thought fluid-bonding was a big deal. It isn`t.
The stress of worrying about who does what with who, and when, pretty much kills the libido, I find.
The same kink/desire for fluid-bonding, can be put onto condom-bonding.

I am condom-bonded, and happier for it.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:49 PM
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You might want to look at some threads on "std" "sti" "fluid bonding" in the tags (found in the search engine). It might be helpful and interesting to read what others have gone through.
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Old 03-07-2012, 05:19 AM
Precious1 Precious1 is offline
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Thanks for the outside viewpoints. Much appreciated.

I was *finally* able to start a dialog with her, albeit through slow online messages rather than in person. Feeling better, or starting to. So far she says "pretty much he will go for whatever you want" and she in content as long as he makes time for her and his chores at their house do not go neglected.
So much more I want to clarify directly with her.

She knows about our level of commitment, and has voiced no concerns about our planning a hand-fasting next year.
Last fall I attempted to break up over open vs in the closet. I am open. They had been in in the closet with everyone since embracing poly about 4 years ago... it was a big concern of his.. who might see us together and talk. She was the one to intervene and keep us together. Since then they have come out to the (adult) children and select friends. I am comfortable with the couple groups of folks they would like to avoid confrontations with over their lifestyle choice and why they choose to do so.

As far as the fluid bonding goes, if she balks at condoms unless regularly tested negative.. I am willing to go back to using them. Actually, our emotional connection is much more important to me than any physical. S and I elected to bond until this is clarified through her as they have very little physical interaction while he and I are very active, for the sexual health of myself and him, and for the financial sense it makes. He has ED issues, and before we bonded did get pharmaceutical help to make condoms usable for us. Frankly I could care less if Mr Happy functioned fully as I am deeply satiated even without.

No, I wouldn't like it if he communicated with me as he does with her. He has learned not to hold back and sugar coat with me. I prefer to address things before they become issues. He knows my feelings on their level of communication, and does not try to prevent me from having contact with her or bar any issues form the table when I am able to get her to communicate. They have been married over two decades; established communication styles are difficult to change, and may never be as open between the two as I personally like in own primary relationships.
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Old 03-07-2012, 06:02 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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This situation sound a little off to me. The wife has several other partners and is unwilling to talk to you. Why? some bad blood. How did this all start for them? How long have they been doing this? How did you get involved?

Did you invite the wife and all of her other partners to the commitment ceremony?
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Old 03-07-2012, 06:19 PM
faraday faraday is offline
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She didn't get upset when you started talking about hand fasting... but have you mentioned the babies and the moving in part?

To be honest it sounds like you are using their bad communication as an excuses not to have good but difficult communication of your own. I think you know that she wouldn't be happy with this, that is why S is avoiding telling her about the condoms.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:55 PM
Precious1 Precious1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
The wife has several other partners and is unwilling to talk to you. Why? some bad blood. How did this all start for them? How long have they been doing this? How did you get involved?
No bad blood. She is very, very shy. I am his first partner that they did know socially as a couple first. They started in poly after she had a long term affair. When S overcame his feelings of hurt and betrayal and realized the relationship actually did not detract from their marriage, he suggested poly. That was about four years ago.
How did I get involved? S and I had been in love many, many years ago but due to fear had never disclosed our feelings to each other. We both married and moved away. Now decades later we are both back in hometown area. We located each other on Facebook, with a couple "hi" messages exchanged. About a year later, I had an open invitation on FB to join me at a flea market and S asked his wife her thoughts on inviting me to dinner with him afterwards. In all honesty none of us thought it would lead to this. He knew I was married at the time, and I knew the same of him. We respect that. He learned I was in process of leaving my abusive spouse and lived apart, and he disclosed his poly & happily married status (while I had been in DADT poly before, I did not have the vocabulary to go with it.) Our relationship developed from there as we discovered how our unrequited childhood love had not diminished.
He is currently my only SO; I am his only OSO. Neither of us are actively seeking other partners, but are open to that fact that it will most likely occur down the line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
Did you invite the wife and all of her other partners to the commitment ceremony?
We have not had the ceremony yet. Yes, everyone is invited and we are excited to ask her and my son to be our attendants. The exact date is not set, but planning for next year fall.

Quote:
but have you mentioned the babies and the moving in part?
He has talked about buying a big house for all of us.
As for babies.. no. He is fixed. And in all honesty, if I ever did win the lottery I would not go forward without her full support. I have talked about us being grandparents for all our future grandchildren, and my mother being a great-grandma.

Quote:
I think you know that she wouldn't be happy with this, that is why S is avoiding telling her about the condoms.
She may or may not be in agreement, which is why he knows I am willing to forgo fluid bonding if not. As for his avoidance, I would tend to agree and have actually called him on that several times. If he chickens out and has unprotected, untested sex with her, we will simply go back to protection ourselves until it is discussed and decided one way or another.

Last edited by Precious1; 03-08-2012 at 02:29 AM. Reason: spelling error
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  #9  
Old 03-08-2012, 09:34 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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Can't be too shy ....if she got several partners now and had some prior (cheating) to the poly adventure.

Do you know or have met all the other players in this?

I'd think they should have the same concerns????

So this was a response out of his circumstance... Why not go have some fun too. Was he reluctant at first?
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