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  #41  
Old 01-31-2012, 09:09 PM
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BrigidsDaughter BrigidsDaughter is offline
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I'm not saying that swindling people out of money is right. I don't believe that at all. I'm not sure if I'd call it hostile though. I don't know if the members of her church are "true believers" or just misguided. But you do sound like you're very hostile towards their organization.

I guess I'm just cautioning you to be very careful not to push her even further into the church's waiting arms.
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  #42  
Old 02-01-2012, 07:15 AM
bassman bassman is offline
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Ok, well we dont even talk about what happens at her meetings, or what they are teaching her, but when my opinion is asked for, I try and be polite and civil, and state my case in an assertive way.

I was thinking that her seeing these people 3 times in one week is a bit much. But, to be fair, Ive been away 3 weeks, - 1 week for work, 2 weeks personal. So I guess she feels she hasnt been out for 3 weeks out all, so I dont begrudge her going out last night.
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  #43  
Old 02-03-2012, 12:28 AM
jasminegld jasminegld is offline
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Originally Posted by bassman View Post
This is exactly what I'm up against at home, and "nothing you can say" rings true to me. So, I'm sure you'll agree theres no point in discussing it with her, is there?
I don't agree. I do, however, think you have to approach the discussion a different way.

You and your wife are speaking different religious languages. One of you has to learn the other's language.

Please understand: Learning to speak Christian has nothing to do with accepting dogma. It means figuring out how speak in terms of myth and story. People do this all the time, using all sorts of literature. We make casual references to Mr. Spock or Gilligan or Beaver Cleaver to refer to a larger concept in shorthand. So learn to do the same using Christian language.

For example, there's a Biblical passage about removing the board from your own eye before complaining about the mote in your neighbor's eye -- this is about projection. There's a passage in which Peter asks Jesus what will become of the "Beloved Disciple" -- this is about minding boundaries.

I recommend a book to you:
Remedial Christianity: What Every Believer Should Know about the Faith, but Probably Doesn't
by Paul Lana Laughlin
Polebridge Press -- the Jesus Seminar folks

Now I understand that you think the book has nothing to offer you in terms of your own religious needs or lack thereof.

But that's NOT the point.

The book might have something to offer your wife. If you read and learn the book, you might develop an ability to talk with her in a way that allows her to explore /examine her own faith more deeply.

Then the two of you just might find a way to communicate with each other on this challenging issue.

Jasmine
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  #44  
Old 02-03-2012, 03:36 AM
Quath Quath is offline
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Sorry, but I find that just not great discussion skill. WHY on earth would anyone tell you that they'd doubt their beliefs?
The idea is based on whether someone is being dogmatic or being skeptical. You can not outargue dogma. If someone says nothing will change their mind, you are dealing with dogma. If someone says something like "If XXX happened or if YYY happened, then I may change my belief" you may be dealing with someone who is open minded enough to evaluate their own belief.

For example, I can say that if God wrote his name in the stars I would believe he is real. That is not the only way, but it shows I am open to evidence to show God is real.

I talk to a lot of people who admit doubt of their beliefs. (I am a scientist and work around other scientists, so it may have more to do with scientific training.) While about 70% of the scientists I know are atheists (or nonbelievers) there is 30% who are religious. However, they are very light on the dogma. For example, several have said that all religions are pathways to heaven even though they identify as Christian.
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  #45  
Old 02-03-2012, 04:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quath View Post
The idea is based on whether someone is being dogmatic or being skeptical. You can not outargue dogma. If someone says nothing will change their mind, you are dealing with dogma. If someone says something like "If XXX happened or if YYY happened, then I may change my belief" you may be dealing with someone who is open minded enough to evaluate their own belief.
That is not always true, if someone has already passed the point where XXX happened and they changed their beliefs to believe in God. Than why would they change their mind? Dogma is a powerful tool, but sometimes people have real experiences that change their belief and you can't argue against those either; because they are personal.

I believe that God is real, but I also believe in spirits/ ghosts; after living in a haunted house for 2 years you'd be hard pressed to convince me they aren't. But that is my point, OP is taking a stance that because he stopped believing, his wife should too. Because her churches dogma threatens him in XYZ ways, it sounds like he feels like she chooses them over him when to her it might not be that simple.
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  #46  
Old 02-03-2012, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by BrigidsDaughter View Post
Because her churches dogma threatens him in XYZ ways, it sounds like he feels like she chooses them over him when to her it might not be that simple.
Summed up correctly.
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  #47  
Old 02-03-2012, 07:39 AM
bassman bassman is offline
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For now, we avoid the topic. My way of reducing the tension between us to just talk about everything else. Having been away for 3 weeks, theres lots to talk about, and it relieves any tension I thought there was.

For now, I'm not interested in reading any christian book, the same as she told me on the weekend she would not read any Richard Dawkins book. So there we are.

Yesterday we had lunch with a muslim who was bemoaning the fact the fiance would not do xyz during their engagement period.

So I used the opportunity to say that 2 adults dont have to follow tradition/culture. If the 2 adults agree to do something different, as long as they agree, then surely thats fine?

To my surprise, he and my wife agreed with me! A small result for me, but a slightly encouraging one.
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  #48  
Old 03-02-2012, 09:44 AM
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All,
A very dear friend, who has become very important to me in the space of just two weeks,

has read this thread, and has, metaphorically speaking, given me a fat smack on the head !!!

But, not for what I believe/dont believe, but for trying to live like this and do nothing about the issue at hand ! They correctly, with love in their voice, told me that I am avoiding confrontation, and they are correct.

Had a chat with the wife, and her and I have agreed to therapy (in spite of my bad experience last time) - I go alone first, and perhaps she'll join me later.



I feel so much better now that I have a plan, rather than doing nothing except be frustrated by the whole thing.
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  #49  
Old 03-02-2012, 04:07 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Good for you. BTW, I told you that a month ago.

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Such timidity on your part! I think you need to take charge of your life more, and make your marriage more of a partnership where you both work on goals together. Either that, or why do you stay?
<second smack!>

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An excellent blog post against hierarchy in polyamory: http://solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-i...short-version/
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  #50  
Old 03-02-2012, 04:10 PM
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Good for you. BTW, I told you that a month ago.



<second smack!>

lol, thanks for the 2nd smack! (was it with love?)
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