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  #11  
Old 02-25-2012, 08:23 AM
CherryBlossomGirl CherryBlossomGirl is offline
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That girl: Sorry, didn't see yer second post before mine went up - must have slipped in under ze wire while i was pounding the keys on my end with my response.

You say, "I'm probably seeing the more positive aspects because those speak to the way I "practice" poly, while others might see the negative sides more because of their own experiences."

With that kind of self awareness, i think you're on the fast track to happy no matter what you decide to do in your life. knowing yourself/the human condition like that is admirable.

All i can really say is that it's all so frickin' interesting to me, and i have a whole new respect for elemental and the incredible power inside of our relationship. I feel like we've walked through fire, and are coming out the other side, a little singed with some fucked up hair maybe, but still holding hands, in love, committed and solid. When you find someone who still makes you swoon after five years, you gotta thank yer lucky stars. Would make a billion agreements to respect that connection if needed, but i think we'll jes' settle on a few, and find someone who those work for too in a few months, and shelve that ideal/idea of a poly fi triad away for a good long time LOL.
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  #12  
Old 02-25-2012, 08:59 AM
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Why are people calling these "rules"??
Well, BP said they are their boundaries, but many of us here feel that boundaries are more negotiable, while rules are less so. These seem pretty restrictive and unmovable, so they have the whiff of rules to me. Whatever they are called, I couldn't be with someone who abides by them as they are written here.

I am approaching this theoretically, as a solo person who lives independently and has no desire to cohabit with anyone. I myself would not devise such rigid parameters for any of my relationships, and I would consider all my love relationships as equally important, so my feedback is based on my perspective and how I would feel being involved with someone who had these agreements/rules/boundaries with their partner, as they surely would impinge my freedom to love and be loved, and (at first glance, it seems to me, anyway) to be able to work toward more involved commitments to each other.

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If I reworded #1 as "All the rules in the world won't matter if you're not committed to respecting your partner by not crossing agreed-upon boundaries without prior discussion" would anyone have a problem with it?
I think the sticking point in #1, for me anyway, is "never put the sanctity of that primary relationship in jeopardy." It makes me wonder - if a relationship could be in such jeopardy, should polyamory even be considered?

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Originally Posted by ThatGirlInGray View Post
Or #6. I don't even have to reword that one much: "Respect your partner, communicate, act with kindness and compassion". How is that a bad thing??
Who said it was a bad thing? I don't think you're directing that to me specifically, but I cited that one as a goodie I agreed with.

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#2: "Don't put up with a partner who disrespects you/your relationships/your other commitments" Haven't there been TONS of threads around here about standing up for what's important to you in a relationship and not letting another person dictate the terms? Isn't this alluding to that??
No one's saying that anyone should disrespect a partner's primary, but most of #2 goes on and on about how the primary couple is of the utmost importance, is sacred, and all the love that makes poly possible flows out of those two people... honestly, I could not believe what I was reading! It seems to me like it's saying everyone involved should treat the couple as if their love is so-o-o special, that they are the only ones who count. Where is the respect that goes out in the other direction, to the other people who also make up part of the relationship dynamics by being connected to that most sacred and holy couple?

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I think perhaps there's too much focus on the restrictive aspects of these statements and not enough on the meaning behind them
Well, it is the restrictions some of us take issue with, so what are we supposed to do, ignore them and not point them out, nor explain why we find them distasteful? If you can live with stuff like this, more power to ya, but I wouldn't feel like a relationship would be allowed to take its own shape and form with restrictions like this. To me, it feels like trying to fit people into a pre-formed mold, with the focus on honoring the couple because their sacred union "allows all others to exist." I just never heard that take on poly before and it rubs me the wrong way!

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What if your feelings, needs, and goals are considered JUST as important, but he can't ACT on them because he's financially entangled with his primary, but not financially entangled with you? Are you going to dump him because he has to make decisions about money, for instance, like how much to spend for dates and vacations, jointly?? CONSIDERATION isn't the same as bringing things to fruition.
I know what consideration means. Did I say anything about demanding that what I want has to happen? I actually don't entirely understand what you're saying here, nor why you've put this kind of spin about money on my statement that it is "just as important [for] my guy to consider my feelings, needs, and goals, as it is to consider his primary partner's." You seem so heated about this, but I don't get why.

I wouldn't ask someone to spend money they didn't have, and I am independent, but I would hope that anyone who gets involved in poly relationships manages their finances well enough to take care of themselves and be able to invest their time and resources into all their relationships without neglecting family responsibilities. And what makes you think I wouldn't pay for a vacation with my lover, including his share, if I could swing it? Don't forget, I am imagining partnering with someone who has a primary, but I would have multiple partners too. I would have to manage my life and balance my finances to be with several partners, just as much as any of them would have to find balance in their relationships. I wouldn't be a single woman hoping for this partnered guy to feed, clothe, and house me, and take care of me financially.

When I wrote that statement, I was thinking more along the lines of emotional needs and life goals, that if someone is involved with me in a serious loving relationship, we can talk about those things, decide on stuff together, and not rigidly adhere to a decree that what the primary wants always must take top priority. There has to be give and take on all sides in a poly tangle, I believe. If I were seeing a married poly guy, his spouse is not a Queen I should bow to, but someone I hope I could hang out with, talk to, and negotiate with sensibly, and not feel like she always gets dessert while I'm only allowed crumbs whenever she deems it is okay for him to throw them my way.

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So, by this logic, because I agree with a lot of these (if not word for word, then at least the reasoning behind them) TGIB...doesn't matter? I'm sure he'd be amazed to learn that.
Now you're putting words in my mouth. My opinion is from my perspective. I dislike the tone of these rules or guidelines, and when I say the reason is because I matter, I mean that I won't defer to the "sanctity" of a couple. I don't see polyamory as necessarily couplecentric, even if an established couple opens up their marriage. I value autonomy. I know there are other poly peeps, who have partners, and see it the way I do. The people that don't view all the souls they connect with emotionally and physically as equally sacred to them, are not anyone I would be involved with. It's my perspective, take it or leave it. I'm simply participating in a discussion, adding my opinions. I am not saying that anyone else should conduct their poly lives the way I do mine. In reality this is all theoretical and not important enough to get all bent out of shape over. So, chill.

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Originally Posted by ThatGirlInGray View Post
STOP with the condescending, judgmental, "if people have relationship hierarchies then they're automatically not treating their non-primary partners well" assumptions.
I merely shared my initial reaction to the list BP posted. This is a message board where people do have and share their opinions and even, yes, judgments. If people didn't have the ability to judge, we'd never know to avoid a fist fight, how to dress ourselves, nor when to cross the street without getting run over. We're human, we judge - big whoop.

It is not automatically condescending to state how I feel, my subjective opinion, on a matter and state the reasons why something is not for me. If I don't like a dress that Mondo sends down the runway, am I being condescending if I critique it and say I wouldn't be caught dead in it? No, I'm just saying I don't like it, and here's why. If somebody else wears it and loves it, I don't think she's an asshole for it.

I know that hierarchies work for lots of people. I don't think any less of them for adhering to a hierarchy. Why confuse a passionate opinion for some kind of condescension? If anything, someone could easily say it is condescending for a couple to think that all the love in a poly tangle depends on the sanctity of their union being preserved.

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Everyone matters. Everyone here is clear on that. I kind of thank Whoever that this couple has their understandings and expectations so clearly realized so they can be honest and upfront with potential partners and therefore respect the new person enough to give them the information they need to make the best decision for themselves about whether or not they want to get involved!
Yes, of course! And I would walk away without looking back. And I have done so when informed of similar rules by prospective lovers. I would rather not get involved than settle (by my own subjective standards), or cling to hopes that I could change someone. It makes for good discussion, too, with all these differing thoughts on the topic. I enjoyed reading a lot of what you posted earlier in the thread.

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Originally Posted by ThatGirlInGray View Post
I took the point to be "remember that you don't get to put your primary relationship aside for the fun of a new one, just because you've been together so long and know each other so well". There may be an awful lot of people who treat secondaries shoddily in favor of a primary, but there's a lot of people who treat their primaries poorly in favor of a secondary as well. I'm probably seeing the more positive aspects because those speak to the way I "practice" poly, while others might see the negative sides more because of their own experiences.
Yes, indeed. And a secondary wanting to be treated with the same loving kindness and respect, and to have the freedom to love and relate to their partner according to their own relationship dynamic, is in no way to say that a primary should be set aside.
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Last edited by nycindie; 02-25-2012 at 04:24 PM.
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  #13  
Old 02-25-2012, 09:08 AM
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9) in their (my sis & her partner's) poly life, they do not see any of their partners (they have more than one other lover/houseboy/etc) more than three times a month. dates, sex, no overnights. all protected, all the time (gloves, condoms, dams, etc) they have ultimate veto power. most of their lovers are in other cities.
I just wanted to add: if that is your ideal BP, you should make it clear right from the start. Otherwise those rules will never work. Your gf was obviously aiming for more involvement than you could have been comfortable giving her, if this set was similar to the one you have had in the back of your mind. You may want to evaluate again why your triad went south. I have had some light bulb moments while reading that list and comparing it to what you described in your blog.

I have a hard time calling that poly, as mine is so different, but we live on variety here. All those rules/understandings/boundaries only work, if you make this point clear right from the start. The people getting involved in this kind of dynamic, shouldn't involve their feelings, at least that's how it appears to me. They are more in the friends with benefit realm, being distant and not involved with the couple mainly in everyday life.

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11) it took a long time to find your primary partner. assume it's going to take an appropriate investment of time/energy to find an equally awesome secondary partner. real relationships that will serve you for a long time don't occur during nre, they happen after nre. getting through that time period of 18 months is a minimum before assuming you should get serious.
Any secondary partner surviving those 18 months, being cut out of the life of his partner to such extend and still pursuing greater involvement has my utmost respect. And I would really be interested what 'getting serious' means for your sister and her partner? Moving up a bit on the involvement level? More time? More say in the matters that are important to the primary partner? Wouldn't this automatically threaten the primary relationship?

Yes, I don't have a first hand understanding what it feels like to be in this kind of dynamic myself, but what went through my mind when thinking about this list was:

Of course my old relationship (at the point of getting involved with a new one) matters and all should be on the same page regarding the importance of it, but I didn't find one spot in these 'understandings' (as you want to call them TGIG) that stated any empathy towards the new relationship that develops there. And that sounded really unhealthy to me from the point of view of the new person entering the dynamic.
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  #14  
Old 02-25-2012, 09:37 AM
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nycindie: ...they have agreed on shit, and chosen peeps who are cool with that. jes' getting clear: does that mean that you think that their secondaries don't matter or don't love themselves in some way?
What I shared was all very subjective from my point of view, imagining myself in the position of someone entering into a relationship as a secondary with a person who has those agreements/boundaries with their primary. Without a doubt, I am sure there are people with good self-esteem who love themselves and would be happy in that situation. I don't understand how or why, but I am only speaking for myself. I'm more of a go-with-the-flow old hippie chick.

It would not work for me, and would erode my esteem, I think, if I tried to fit myself into such a structure. Not just because I balk at any kind of box I'm expected to fit into, but because I would feel a lack of spontaneity and organic-ness to the relationship. That is just my sense of how it would be FOR ME, knowing my nature and how I am in relationships. Yes, I am fine with some boundaries, but they need to make sense to me and serve me as well as they would the partner who expects me to adhere to them.

And see, the thing about a couple having boundaries for their relationship is this: that's what works for them. I will have my own personal boundaries, too. And theoretically any relationship I have will need to be aligned within any boundaries that work for us. But why should the boundaries a partner of mine has with someone else be applied to me in my relationship to that same person? Different relationship! If their boundaries affect me in a way that doesn't clash with my own, nor with allowing my relationship to develop and grow organically, fine. But when one of my lover's boundaries with someone else has the effect of putting that someone else, with whom I am not involved, in control of my relationship, that just will not do.

I love people very easily, I wear my heart on my sleeve, I want to make the people I am with feel good and free and happy, and I allow myself to be vulnerable in relationships. I take people at their word and believe in the good in them. For that I need to feel safe, and that I can be myself and express my love without someone else's limits imposed on me. I absolutely cannot feel safe if a partner's SO has veto power - that is a deal-breaker for me. If someone's rules seem too strict, I feel like I'm not trusted, and therefore how can I trust? Sure, I can be with men who keep some distance between me and their hearts, and it is always a tough lesson for me. Since my separation and embracing poly, I've had my heart broken. But I could not have all those pre-fabricated expectations or boundaries laid out for me beforehand.

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you seem to really have found what works for you, and makes you happy, and have some pretty developed/firm opinions too - looked for your blog, but didn't see one, and my interest is peaked! Do you participate in having a primary partner? If so, how long have you two been together/were together, and what rules do the two of you share?
Oh, I'm an old lady, and had lots of relationships, and lots of therapy, in my lifetime. I've only embraced poly since the fall of 2010, after I cried my eyes out for four months straight when my marriage ended. I have had many blunders, a painful breakup, and much stress, and you can read my tales of woe in the Blogs forum - it's called "Indie... Solo... Poly..."

I also discuss my views on practicing poly as a solo, independent person in this thread: Solo poly people - what's your ideal?
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  #15  
Old 02-25-2012, 05:48 PM
CherryBlossomGirl CherryBlossomGirl is offline
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Phy: As we grow/learn, our perspectives are certs gunna change, no doubt about it. naievity/ideals vs. realities, and some life lessons come hard.

so to be clear, you're sayin' that because it's different than what you'd do, that it's not poly? and you're saying that their partners have hardship and deserve respect for being with them for more than 18 months (about how long it takes to actually get to know someone, btw)? hooo boy! i bet my sis & her partner & their partners would have a good chuckle over both those ideas

you don't have to feel the empathy - they've already got that goin' on in their own lives. so you wouldn't date 'em, that's cool. lots of peeps are doing lots of different things in poly, figuring it out, working on their relationships - kudos to 'em all, i say!

nycindie:

that's cool - glad you're finding yer way in poly after a sad divorce. it sucks that everyone gets their heart broke at some point, poly, mono, celibate - agreements or no agreements - participation in any relationship ends in hurt sometimes. so you've been poly for about two years, eh? and haven't had a primary relationship that you work outwards from? you've got some strong ideals, and i'm glad they're workin' for you! you must have some really awesome relationships with yer partner's SOs, eh?
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Old 02-25-2012, 06:29 PM
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@TGIG - "Why are people calling these"rules"?? I took them as "understandings" between people in a relationship, and for some of them just a smart, decent way of doing relationships in general."

Oh definitely much of it makes sense and is smart. In fairness I probably should have said so. All the stuff about communication and respect, that's all good. Like NYC said, I focused on the restrictive parts because that's what I took issue with. Normally I'd try to be more even-handed I think, but I got a little worked up thinking about it.

From my point of view, in this context, "We have a rule that we [each have ultimate veto power over the other's relationships][don't do sleepovers with secondary partners][don't see secondary partners more than thee times a month]." just doesn't sound any different to me than "We have an understanding that we [each have ultimate veto power over the other's relationships][don't do sleepovers with secondary partners][don't see secondary partners more than thee times a month]." So, I called it like I saw it. If it had been prefaced with "these are flexible, general guidelines that they use as a starting place, not hard and fast rules" that would have been one thing, but I didn't get that impression at all.

@BP -

I get that this works for your sister and her partner and I respect that, again I should probably have taken a line to make that clear. If it works for their other partners too that's great... though I do wonder if it really does work for all of them or if they just know this is what they can get so they adhere to it or/until they move on. I decided to look at this from a very personal perspective, which was kind of an odd choice I suppose considering that they're not trying to apply it to me and I could have examined it more objectively. But like I said above, I had a reaction to it and I was trying to understand that.

"do you have your own primary partner? if not, do you think that would change the dynamic of your concerns? and if not, do you think that you need more commitment/security from eric and gia because of that?"

No, I do have another partner but at this point I'd say Davis and I are still in a secondary mode in our relationship. We're talking about maybe moving in together and making a deeper commitment, so at that point things would change. I do think that I might well be coming from a different point of view if I was settled in and focused on my own primary partner. The fact that I come from the perspective that I do is actually why I thought it was important to post here, to provide a different voice, a different take on things. I find it hard to predict how my concerns might be different if my situation were different. I can say that I still don't think that I'd be down with an explicit veto power, I can't imagine feeling emotionally safe giving my heart in that situation no matter what.

I don't actually think I have any commitment/security from Gia or Eric per se, so I'm not sure how I could need less if I had my own primary? There's no rings, no promises, nothing like that. What I do have is her assurance that in her mind she's charged our relationship with the duty to last as long as is sensible, and his statement that he trusts me and has no problem with our relationship as long as it's making her happy. And I can't imagine going on for any length of time in something that was serious to me without at least that basic level... her desire to see it continue, her partner's lack of desire to make it stop.
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Old 02-25-2012, 07:05 PM
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Phy: As we grow/learn, our perspectives are certs gunna change, no doubt about it. naievity/ideals vs. realities, and some life lessons come hard.

so to be clear, you're sayin' that because it's different than what you'd do, that it's not poly? and you're saying that their partners have hardship and deserve respect for being with them for more than 18 months (about how long it takes to actually get to know someone, btw)? hooo boy! i bet my sis & her partner & their partners would have a good chuckle over both those ideas
Ah no, don't misunderstand me, I have a hard time because it is different, but as I said, variety is everywhere. It wouldn't be my poly, that's all and I would consider it as the thing nearly the farthest away from what I could imagine as loving freely, that's why I choose those words.

And I say that the possibilities are severely limited by their set of rules and that their primary relationship never gone through such a preset of rules like the secondary ones. And that I therefore respect the ones enduring those 'hardships' and still stay involved. And that I am curious about what they understand 'getting serious' means. Because I take that they have been kind of seriously involving theirselves in the early times of their primary relationship, haven't they? You don't really pursue a relationship if you are not serious as far as I am concerned.

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you don't have to feel the empathy - they've already got that goin' on in their own lives. so you wouldn't date 'em, that's cool. lots of peeps are doing lots of different things in poly, figuring it out, working on their relationships - kudos to 'em all, i say!
Again, don't misunderstand, as I have already said, if it works, great. No, it would never work for me, but I don't have to date them, you are right. I just suggested that you may want to evaluate why this resonates so well with you and what you could imagine for yourself and why things didn't work out before. That's all, don't feel attacked, I would never questioned your approach to say that it will never work for you (How could I? I don't know you), I just stated my personal opinion on it. (Didn't we have this statement already in this thread?)
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Old 02-25-2012, 07:51 PM
CherryBlossomGirl CherryBlossomGirl is offline
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thanks phy - means a lot to hear that it's about everyone having the right to their own experience, i was having problems hearing that in your last post, obvs. oh subjective experience, LOL!

"I just suggested that you may want to evaluate why this resonates so well with you and what you could imagine for yourself and why things didn't work out before." oh yah, this is what it's all about for us right now - finding the way that works best for elemental and i.

i think it resonated with me so strongly because they have so much experience, and have beliefs firmly entrenched in reality, instead of my most recent reality/relationship that was SO firmly based in ideals and NRE. It also resonates with me that they're from people who are maintaining balance in a primary relationship while both having other successful, loving partnerships.

while we're not sure that all of their agreements would transfer well into our relationship, they do make a lot of sense on the whole. i could def. do some dissecting of my own, but that's coming from an idealist still at this point LOL.

it kinda reminds me of how when i was younger, i thought my parents were spun, and that i was figuring out the world on my own the right way. as i grow older, i realize how much life experience and wisdom my parents have ALWAYS had to offer me, and that in my adolescence, i was naieve/silly enough to push away those gifts. Here i am, coming out of my first "real" triad, shakin' my head, and ready for some real "parental" advice. by parents, i mean people who have been 'round the proverbial block, have had a lot of experience, and can share that experience with me. that's gold right there - still free to take/leave their advice/wisdom as i like, and i don't have to latch on to everything they say, but having it there is pretty awesome.

i feel strongly this way when i read redpepper on this board. tried, tested, true, livin' out long term partnerships/realities - i really read her posts even MORE carefully now - there's a lot of wisdom there, and having that to draw on (whether I agree with everything she says or not) is pretty fuckin' amazing.

cheers to you phy - obvs to me that you are a happy poly person, and i'm glad you've got it goin' on over there! how long y'all been together?
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Old 02-25-2012, 08:57 PM
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1) boundaries need to come from within, not from outside. They need to serve the primary relationship, and in your heart, you have to make a choice to never put the sanctity of that primary relationship in jeopardy. you still need to make agreements about other relationships with your partner, but you have to make that commitment inside of yourself first.
OK, to dissect. This first rule applies only to already partnered, primary couples. "SERVE THE PRIMARY RELATIONSHIP"?? Are the secondaries their servants? Well, if your sis and her guy have houseboys, and subs, yes. If they have other (non-power exchange egalitarian partners, "serve" might not be the best choice of words. I'd prefer "respect." (ie, no cowgirls or cowboys allowed.)

Quote:
2) hierarchy exists for a reason (this is probably going to cause a comment RIOT y'all, but i really identified with this). only a very, very few people can deal with poly without any hierarchy, and noobs have will run into some major shit trying to mirror that tiny percentile of relationships. primary. secondary. tertiary. there should never be the same levels of intimacy, spontaneity, time commitment, life commitment to a secondary/tertiary partner.
I take issue with this, big time. "NEVER"?? I'd love the same level of intimacy with my Ginger that I have with miss pixi, and so far, at 2 months in, there is no limit to how deep he and I want to go... and miss pixi would never think of limiting my feelings for anyone else.

I can be as spontaneous as I want to be with my guys. I do confer with miss pixi, I mean, I do not just run out on a date when she and I have our long weekends together, we talk it over, but if something really fun came up, and she and I had had some quality time already, I don't see saying NO to someone else.

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they are different kinds of relationships. your primary relationship is sacred, and should be protected by both parties, as it is this primary relationship that allows all others to exist in the way that they do. the love starts in that primary relationship, and needs to be nurtured/protected by all partners involved
Again, this only applies to already established couples, and like others, I find all my love relationships sacred. Love is sacred, sex is sacred. When I share my heart and soul with anyone, it is sacred and divine. Now, if I was married with small children, I would put their needs first. If both miss pixi and Ginger had to have serious operations on the same day, I'd choose to be with her, as Ginger has a wife of his own to be at his bedside. But if miss pixi was stable, I'd sure as shit want to go see Ginger in the hospital too, bring him flowers, comfort him, as well. My heart would be with both of them, as they both rock and enrich my life.

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3) if you are with a secondary partner who doesn't respect the boundaries/hierarchy, move on. you do not want to be in a place where competition can exist for the core relationship in your life - it creates dramatic dynamics that are unnecessary and unhealthy for the primary relationship. avoid people with no boundaries, or who seem to want an equal status in relationship. equal love, yes. equal status/intensity of relationship, no.
Competition sucks. But equal love, status and intensity can be worked toward, if everyone has their big girl panties on.

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4) don't spend too much time with a secondary (we were spending weeks at a time together). maybe don't even have sleepovers.

Who is to say what is "too much" time? That is a completely personal decision. As long as the primary feels respected and nurtured, one could see another lover/lovers 6 days a week! And no sleepovers? God, I love a sleepover with Ginger. I am tired of a "wham bam thank you ma'am, back to my own life" kinda thang. Of course, miss pixi and I dont live together, and usually Ginger and Gentleman spend their overnights at my own place, but once Ginger, pixi and I all had a date together and he slept with me at her place, on the sofa bed. I had asked her in advance if this was OK with her, of course.

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Do what's necessary to separate the intensity of relationships, especially in the face of nre for at least 18 months. most relationships will not last this long even though they feel like they will at first. if and when they do, they are still secondary relationships, but because they are solid, should be taken more seriously and invested in by all parties more. until 18 months, assume most people are a little crazy, and be careful about who you allow into your love-biosphere.
This all seems a bit harshly stated, but yes, it is important to control NRE and not do anything crazy, move the new person in, neglect your primary's needs for sex and romance, etc. BTW, some people have NRE for 3 months, some for 18. No one should move in with a new partner on the 2nd date (not even you, U-Haul Lesbians!).

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5) keep things fair. don't go on fancy fabulous nights out with your lover and then just hang out with your primary and do laundry. don't compare your partners ....
Fine.

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6) be responsible to your partner. communicate. Be good to them.
Of course.

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7) if it's too much work too early with a secondary/tertiary, walk away. you don't need to be doing primary relationship style communication with a secondary partner, certainly not in the beginning if ever.
Totally disagree. Good communication is good communication. Doesn't matter with whom.

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8) even though you're controlling the speed (go slow) of the relationship, the time spent (quantified and controlled) together, you don't need to control feelings. because there are boundaries elsewhere, it will be easier for you to experience compersion for your partner (than when it's jammed up in your face for days on end).
Yes.

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9) in their (my sis & her partner's) poly life, they do not see any of their partners (they have more than one other lover/houseboy/etc) more than three times a month. dates, sex, no overnights. all protected, all the time (gloves, condoms, dams, etc) they have ultimate veto power. most of their lovers are in other cities.
Well, this makes things complicated. Personally I'd question your sis and BIL's decision to have more than a couple non-primary lovers each at a time. I was going crazy when I had one gf and 3 bfs. That was one too many, for me. And I much prefer non LDR relationships. I'd wonder if these people all over the country are really partners, in a full sense, or just play time fun buddies?

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10) slow it down. if it becomes uncomfortable, take a break.
Sure.

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11) it took a long time to find your primary partner. assume it's going to take an appropriate investment of time/energy to find an equally awesome secondary partner. real relationships that will serve you for a long time don't occur during nre, they happen after nre. getting through that time period of 18 months is a minimum before assuming you should get serious.
Like others have said, what constitutes "serious" for your sis and BIL, if they hold people so at bay? Serious,, to me would indicate co-primary, moving in, something like that.
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 58, living with:
miss pixi, 37, who is dating (NRE):
Master, 32
my bf: Ginger, 61, married to:
Robin, 60 (mono)
and dating (NRE): Carla and David, married couple, early 40s
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  #20  
Old 02-25-2012, 09:29 PM
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Phy Phy is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 602
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Originally Posted by BaggagePatrol View Post
cheers to you phy - obvs to me that you are a happy poly person, and i'm glad you've got it goin' on over there! how long y'all been together?
Just like NYCindie, I have my blog on here Phy's Story - As you like it, feel free to read a bit. It's a different experience than yours in many ways, but we indeed reached an awesome place by now (for now). My husband and I opened our marriage after having been together for more than eleven years to welcome my best friend of 6 years on a more intimate level than before. It will be a year in April that everything got started and so far, we are doing reasonably well, I guess. All of us are living together since September of the last year.

As I said, I can't do it with hierarchy. Boyfriend moved to 'co-primary' instantly and we juggled things out. That's the way I do it and the way all of us feel comfortable. I often heard the term 'emotional triad' for a vee were the arms are really close, this may work for us as well.
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Facts: 30, female, bi, v-type relationship with Sward (husband, straight, mono) and Lin (boyfriend, straight, mono), poly-fi and co-primary.

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