cowboy confessional

I’m a cowboy. I push boundaries to breaking points. I have cheated in all my previous long-term relationships under the guise of “polyamory." I have selfish tendencies around relationships and sex. I am very sexual, have a strong sexuality, love to experiment. I was a late bloomer sexually.

When push comes to shove, I have a history of giving myself what I want, when I want it. I have enabled my behaviour by refusing to address character deficiencies with self-serving explanations. I have been sneaky and dishonest with partners in the past. I have a long rebellious history with any kind of authority and am prone to addictive behaviours, having struggled with addiction issues and anger management most of my adolescent/adult life.

I am charismatic, attractive, masculine, strong and creative, a "man's man." I come from middle-class white upbringing, with an anarchistic street punk art student youth. I have been criminally minded, and a long history of living in the margins, in the shadows, between the cracks.

I am self-employed, a self-made man.

I am 42. I have been in a relationship with the woman of my dreams, Ivy, for the last 5 years. She is 10 years younger than me. We've married for 2 years.

We came together in a casual encounter, both being in sexually unsatisfying relationships, her with permission, me in a “don’t ask, don’t tell” forced-open kind of way. We fell in love. Ivy left her fiancé to be with me. I was already married, and left my wife.

Our relationship was bonded on an incredible sexual connection, and we worked hard to add the compatible elements of a partnership as we went along, both of us working really hard to stay together, to do our self work, group work, counselling, etc.

We have grown a great love, and understand each other like no one else ever has in our lives, having seen all the warts. Ivy knows me, keeps me honest by not letting me get away with my past patterns, and, for the most part, stands up to me. She is a strong woman, for sure, also a self-made woman. A Boss.

We both have a long history with poly, Ivy with multiple bfs/gfs, me with multiple gfs, and also being the secondary in a MMF. So when it came time for us to want to open up our relationship, to experiment, it came pretty naturally for us. We experimented with a threesome, had a great time. We moved to a couple, which was also great, except for some compatibility issues.

We moved on to another threesome with this great lady, Nell, a student at a local university, who was looking for us, as well. Things started so well-- fun, great sex, great communication. We quickly went deeper than we had in any of our previous experiences. Ivy was falling in love with Nell, quickly making plans to include her in our life. I cautioned against rushing into anything, but was quickly swept up in NRE, let my guard down, and quickly developed feelings for Nell, all with Ivy's encouragement.

That’s when my Cowboy tendencies started to really come out.

I started pushing our agreed-upon boundaries, the physical, the emotional, by initiating contact outside of the triad, initiating sex when it made Ivy uncomfortable. I was always wanting more. I was falling in love with our girlfriend, and it was scaring the shit out of Ivy.

We would talk and talk after each boundary transgression. I would assure her that it wouldn’t happen again, but still I would find ways to push the limits, always finding ways to justify my actions, my feelings. It came to a head when Ivy came home from work and found us in bed together. That changed everything for Ivy, killed her NRE for Nell, and was the moment of change in our poly life.

Me chipping away at her trust has now blown a huge hole in our relationship. After a month of trying to work it out, she broke up with Nell, again after another boundary transgression, me meeting up with Nell to have drinks at a bar with friends-- just showing up unannounced, uninvited. I was just doing what I wanted, not thinking of anyone else, just being a cowboy.

We had worked our way back to giving the triad another shot, and I just rambled in and fucked everything up with my stupid selfish behaviour. Now I have split up Nell and Ivy, who really care about each other. I feel I have eroded Ivy's trust to the point of not wanting to re-establish the relationship.

Nell loves the couple experience, and I have taken that from her. There has been talk of me and Nell continuing on in a V-shape relationship, but I don’t know if that is even possible now. I really care for Nell. I want to keep seeing her, but can’t have a relationship with her at the expense of my primary relationship. Yee–fucking-haw.

So I have this battle inside of myself, my wants and desires for poly triad partnership with Ivy and our (ex) gf, my desire to keep seeing Nell myself, and my concern and love for Ivy and our relationship. Add to it all my cowboy tendencies and it’s just a party in my head and heart.

I am posting this as a way to get it out of my head, to add to it as it comes. My questions to the community on here are mostly for others like me, reformed cowboys/cowgirls who, like me, have struggled with these issues. Any tips on coping or ways to work this out of myself? I really do want to be a better man, to be the man I know I can be. I want to be a good poly man, who lives his life being good to his partners, taking care of their needs and feelings, as well as my own. I want to change these cowboy ways.

Hmm, it seems you are using the word "cowboy" in a different way than most poly people use it.

So, why does Nell bear no responsibility? Was she unaware that Ivy would object to finding the two of you in bed together?

As for the couple experience, Nell can find that with many other people. Hot bi babes are always in demand. You haven't taken that chance away from her.

If I were you, I would step away and let it be a V, with your wife as the hinge. Let her and Nell be together, if indeed they want that, and you stay out of it until you all feel you've regained some trust. It's a test, basically. Will you actually be able to stay away? Can you change? Or, maybe you and Ivy should abandon poly for the time being altogether, while you do some counseling or soul-searching or will-strengthening exercises or something.

Your behavior pattern sounds kind of compulsive. What do you think caused you to act that way? On the one hand, your past history suggests you just have issues that need work. I almost thought antisocial personality at some points, since you seemed to have so much self confidence, to the point of arrogance, paired with so little regard for the feelings of others.

On the other hand, I wonder why was it so bad for you to be in bed with Nell, or to drop in on a social outing? I feel strongly that the dyads in triads need alone time to develop. So if that wasn't allowed, I can certainly see why you (and, perhaps Nell, as well) would strain against that particular boundary.

Seriously, I can never understand the idea that it's okay to fuck or socialize in a group, but not separately! It seems to set people up to break the rules, since it's such a natural desire to spend one-on-one time with someone you like now and then. It's like, if you're going to do polyamory, just go for it. How is someone your "girlfriend" if you're not allowed to meet them at a bar?

I know this doesn't address the issue you're asking for help with, so please excuse the mini-rant. It's just a pet peeve of mine, as someone involved with a married couple.

Kudos, anyway, for wanting to change. Nothing can happen without that.

Good for you 'fessing up to your shortcomings, as you see them. That is very brave. It seems that you need more bravery and more 'fessing up, however.

This is thread that might help with the term "cowboy." It doesn't seem to me that you are a cowboy by the usual definition, in poly theory. I would say you are a "cheater," with a cheater mindset.

I have been one also, and it took years to retrain my head. It takes years to get through the entitlement one learns to take on when one cheats. It's almost as if no one else exists.

The concept of being considerate, empathetic and compassionate has to be relearned. It sounds to me like you have not learned this yet. So start now. Every time you find yourself desiring what YOU want, with no consideration for others, ask yourself what would occur if you acted on that. How would Ivy feel about it, how would Nell feel, what would the possible scenario unfold if you were to go there?

I would suggest that if you have one ounce of doubt about what you are doing, either don't do it, relay the circumstance later to those involved, and check if your gut was right, or ask. Make a phone call and check it out. Don't assume anything, and don't expect others to be willing to just bend because you want them to. If they say that in no way would they be okay with what you are asking, then don't do it. Walk away.

I would suggest asking Ivy for help with this. You seem to be unable to do it alone. You will likely have to make yourself very vulnerable to her and others, but in that, you might be able to re-build your integrity in her eyes so that she can trust you again.

You will also have to work hard to get to a point where YOU trust yourself again.

Actually, his negative application makes more sense then the poly-applied one, when speaking of ignorant crap, anyhow.

Elemental, I give you total credit for being self-aware. You've acknowledged things that few would dare admit to themselves.

The challenge you have now is to be honest with others. It won't be pretty. When you live in an untenable lie, the only way to break it and mold it into something real is to be honest about your bullshit.

I wish you luck. You have the intelligence to do it, now show that you have the courage.

AnnabelMore said:

I wonder *why* was it so bad for you to drop in on a social outing?

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Because he wasn't invited. I mean, sure, it's a free country and people can go where they please. But when your partner tells you "I'm going out with some friends," and doesn't include "Would you like to come?" it's a clear indication that your presence will be unwelcome. Ignoring her desires and showing up uninvited is disrespectful. By the sounds of it, he got in trouble with Nell for intruding on her outing with friends, not from Ivy for meeting up with Nell behind Ivy's back.

redpepper said:

It doesn't seem to me that you are a cowboy by the usual definition in poly theory. I would say you are a "cheater." I have been one also...

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While I don't disagree that parts of his (mis)behaviour include cheating, I don't think that's the core of what he's referring to. His issue is much deeper than just cheating, it seems to extend into many aspects of his life.

I think the word he's looking for is "outlaw."

My girlfriend started out not unlike you. She cheated on virtually every partner she'd ever had. Eventually, she learned about polyamory, and it changed her life. She started living openly with her partners. She started being honest with herself and with them that she could not do monogamy.

So it is possible to reform.

But I think before you start working on being polyamorous, you need to work on yourself. To be blunt: what you describe as "cowboy ways" I describe as "being a jerk."

It's not enough to state that as a fact; you have to actually change it. Start doing things for other people. At first, you'll just have to force yourself, but eventually you'll learn how wonderful it feels to make someone happy (other than yourself). Once you get a taste of the reward, you'll probably start doing it more, and that can really be an upward spiral.

Pride and Falls

It does something wonderful to my heart to see you on here. No change can come from outside, only from within, and while there is growth that others can inspire you. It's the growth that you choose to pursue yourself that will alter the course of your life in unimaginably beautiful ways. I am proud of you for being on here, and speaking your truth, for sharing the places you hide, and being honest. Free yourself from old ways, and find a new way of being. I am here to support and love you as you find out what that new way is.

CherryBlossomGirl, I thought maybe this guy was your husband. Your situations seem so similar.

I don't know anything about the specifics of "cowboy ways," being in the Midwest and not being around many cowboys. However, self-gratifying, addictive, selfish behavior is found everywhere.

Your charm, charisma, intelligence, and physical appearance all help you feed this high sex drive. The moment is always worth the risk, or even makes it more exciting. Most likely, in the past, your skills could get you out of a jam when one happened. "It's just how I am!"

You need coping skills to learn how to honor agreements, or how not to think with your dick. How 'bout a big rubber band? When it starts happening, give it a good snap. (Oops, this suggestion just turned on a big segment here. Only try this if this would be considered unpleasant.)

Maybe talk to a therapist about past patterns and destructive behaviors. Discuss what's really important to you, long term.

Good luck,
D

Ahh, I see. You're CherryBlossom's husband. That provides a lot of context.

If it helps, this kind of thing happens to a lot of couples. My gf and her husband went through something similar in several ways when they were both dating the same woman. See here: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showpost.php?p=98156&postcount=123

The husband in their story, Eric, also had a history of bad behaviors and pushing boundaries leading up to their triad's crisis. In the end, he sort of forced himself to develop a deeper sense of empathy in order to regain his wife's trust. He truly changed himself. They took a yearlong break from polyamory, and opened back up in a much slower, more deliberate way when they felt they were ready. Things have been MUCH better since.

Thanks everyone for the responses. Just checking in on the thread before I go into more detail.

I really like this forum and the posters' insights. I read it a lot to get perspective. I know everyone has an opinion. I look forward to adding mine to the mix.

Yeah, I am CherryBlossom's hubbo. I read her posts for her context. I do think that “outlaw cheater” is a more appropriate title. I didn’t have the full scoop on the cowboy reference. That is what CBG was referring to me as, so I used it. Nell has also read our posts and I hope to encourage her to also add to the forum mix, although she frequents another forum.

Yeah, I have to see myself in a clear harsh light and not sugarcoat it. It seems the only way I can deal. I have done a shit ton of personal work, mostly around addiction, abuse recovery and anger mod. I guess the selfish cheater part is next to get the scrubbing lol

Anywayz, can't stop, won't stop, right? Looking forward to addressing all the points raised, but for now let's just say thanks for the opportunity to air my shit out, and have a chance to change and grow. I can’t see any other way that appeals to me.

Evolve or die trying,
EleMENTAL

elemental said:

I do think that “outlaw cheater” is a more appropriate title

I have to see myself in a clear harsh light and not sugarcoat it. It seems the only way I can deal.

Evolve or die trying,
EleMENTAL

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Take the "outlaw" part off. That word still makes your lying and cheating sound cool, dangerous and appealing. You are very good at seeing yourself, but it still sounds like you are glamorizing your selfishness.

faraday said:

Take the "outlaw" part off. Outlaw still makes your lying and cheating sound cool, dangerous and appealing. ...It still sounds like you are glamorizing your selfishness.

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Yes, I agreed. You're just a cheater. You don't seem to be any different than a lot men I know that cheat, so why the outlaw part? It's cheating, full stop. Adding any more to that is just self-centered, and that's part of the problem. Now go change it.

Classic addict behaviors, through and through. I've lived with one, and I have worked as a therapist with several. Get thee back into some therapy ASAP. You're exhibiting relapse behaviors. It sounds like you've worked hard in the past to stop the negative behaviors, but ran into triggers you weren't prepared for.

dragonflysky said:

Classic addict behaviors, through and through. Get thee back into some therapy ASAP. You're exhibiting relapse behaviors.

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*like*

Ok just “cheater”- cheater confessional. Shit I don’t like that, don’t see myself as totally selfish, a people user and cheater… I do see the addition behavior though from my past, that obsessive compulsion to want more, immediately, that helps to see that, to see myself in a triggered state. That makes a lot of sense to me. Lol at the idea of running to therapy every time something vexes me, I have good friends and self care and self awareness to cope with this life, not that “therapy” isn’t helpful, but I am not so out of control that I can’t take a step back and address the behavior. So that is a helpful insight to me. I feel the same way about creating boundaries in the triad that set up failure, about the need to control the inevitable at times pairing off. In conversations with Baggage Patrol I also see how she would have got there eventually, we (gf and me) just rushed the whole thing. I feel much more in tune with her comfort level and boundary zones, and moving forward see us taking steps back and slowing down the pace of our extra relationships. I also find useful the idea of self checking in before being impulsive / spontaneous and asking questions around my partners comfort zone. I see I need to do work around the perception that boundaries = controlling, something that I chafe against, and really find useful the links to similar stories, of other triad experiences to relate to. I think my attitude of “we’re poly, lets just go for it” has created discomfort with BP slower more cautious approach which just appeared after “the event” of finding GF and me in bed together. Which is an issue for me, because up until that point it was full speed ahead. I think I have taken a lot longer to apply the breaks, once her discomfort started, obviously because I wasn’t feeling it.

Okay, so you are CBG's husband. No wonder "poly" isn't working for you two, and CBG is so fucking miserable.

CBG seems like a wonderful woman and you're really hurting her, Elemental. Please, in the name of all that is holy and good, drop Nell, forget about "polyamory" (since what you are doing is in no way poly, but just fucking around), and work on becoming more honest and respectful.

Oh, for the record, the term cowboy, or cowgirl, in poly argot, means a person who becomes a partner of either one or both of a couple, and tries to cut one of the couple out, and take the other partner for him or herself. Hence, our confusion.

Whoa, lots of hostility! I earlier tried to post a reply, see that it hasn't come up yet, as to be approved by a moderator? Huh. Well I can see that you have been following CBG's side of events. But, as usual, there are more sides to this story, ones that I will save until I talk to her first about posting, issues in our relationship and in this triad directly that haven't been represented. I take responsibility for my mistakes, but I'm not going to hang around in here and be told I'm just fucking around, because that's not the case! Jeez.