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  #1  
Old 11-19-2009, 09:18 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
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Default Broad brushes

Hi everyone,

Reading through some of the various threads here (and elsewhere) I've noticed a trend of folks to want to draw a pretty distinct line between "swinging" and "polyamory" - however those get defined. In general, it seems we want to paint the "swingers" with the brush of "meaningless, risky sex participants" and poly being almost exclusively focused on the "love" aspect (although the sex is often a part too).

Broad brushes you think ?

One of the important points we often see raised is that the "meaningless sex" part is often (not always?) raised in the demeaning and dangerous way it affects the ladies. The same of course could be said about the men in many situations.
But reading this, and just thinking it through made me wonder about the implications of drawing such black & white conclusions.
Having browsed a number of the so called "swinger" sites over the years and spoken with quite a large number of the participants (if chatting & email can be considered "speaking"), one thing we noticed in a fairly large number of these participants is their expression of wanting MORE than just sex. Most of it's expressed in terms of "friendship", i.e spending quality non-sexual time together etc.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ...... what do we have here ???
Now I'm not supposing that very many of these folks are prepared, or even desire, to attempt the path of polyamory - by it's loftiest ideals. As a matter of fact it's a possibility that not many of them are even familiar with the concept & practice.
However...............

Their expression of desiring "more" (than sex) - what does that mean ? So to me it raises a couple questions........

1> Should we be looking at "swinging" etc as a "gateway drug" to something bigger ?

2> Should we maybe be reacting in a kinder & more loving fashion to these folk realizing that they may be feeling/experiencing their desire and curiosity for reaching out for something "more" - maybe in the only way they know how ?

What do you folks think ??
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  #2  
Old 11-20-2009, 02:28 AM
Ilove2men Ilove2men is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit View Post

2> Should we maybe be reacting in a kinder & more loving fashion to these folk realizing that they may be feeling/experiencing their desire and curiosity for reaching out for something "more" - maybe in the only way they know how ?

Kind of like when Ceoli was reaching out for something more when she was curious enough to ask for your proof and you chastised her?
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  #3  
Old 11-20-2009, 03:58 AM
Quath Quath is offline
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I tend to see swinging and polyamory as two ends of a spectrum where most non-monogamous people fit somewhere between the extremes.
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  #4  
Old 11-20-2009, 05:43 AM
Fidelia Fidelia is offline
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GroundedSpirit:

You are in no position to question or chastise us as individuals within a community for whatever opinions or positions we may choose to adopt, as you continue to choose to ignore the fact that you have treated members of this community disrespectfully and dismissively.

Admit your error and rectify it. Own what is yours. It's the evolved thing to do.

BESIDES, who would want to engage in a discussion with you on any topic, once they've seen the blatant disrespect you heaped on Ceoli and the other members of the community, in the "sexual element" thread. http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1174 You are not behaving in a way that encourages intelligent, thoughtful discussion and debate, and thus you do not deserve to share in our exchange of ideas.

(My name is Fidelia, and I am fully accountable for this message. No Justice, no peace.)

Last edited by Fidelia; 11-20-2009 at 05:45 AM.
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  #5  
Old 11-20-2009, 04:19 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
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Default Hmmmmm

Siggghhhhhhhhhhh

Hopefully it's not to late............

Have to address this to Fidelia primarily even though I try to keep personal responses off the public area to avoid clutter and having the original topic diverge in some other direction.
If it makes you (or anyone else) feel better, we'll later post some FINAL attempt at clarification of that original topic you are so upset about. I say final because the thread ended up deteriorating exactly as I projected it would if that kind of thing didn't stop. It's a moot point now.

However..............
Your behavior here in using a public forum for personal attacks is unacceptable. There are easy ways to launch those attacks if that's what you feel the need to do and we're happy to talk, discuss, debate etc in private. It's however extremely detrimental to the board followers and it usually will result in you being banned if the Admin or Moderators are on their toes.
As comical as all this drama is to many it really does detract from the purpose of the board.

Enough already ! The door is open for your personal vendetta. Let's see if there's any chance of keeping this thread "on topic". If the users have points of disagreement or don't feel they can weigh in, then they won't. Otherwise, give them the chance without having to endure a cheap soap opera. (Yea, that will probably piss someone off too - oh well)

GS
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  #6  
Old 11-20-2009, 04:40 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
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Default Yea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quath View Post
I tend to see swinging and polyamory as two ends of a spectrum where most non-monogamous people fit somewhere between the extremes.
Yea, that's kind of been our observation/experience too. Practicing "polyamory" in it's purest, theoretical form requires much more time & energy than probably most people have available. But I guess our hope would be that the choice of reaching out to others in whatever capacity anyone is capable of, would bring benefits to many in the quality & variability of their relationships. Increasing happiness and minimizing pain & drama would seem to be a primary goal ?

GS
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  #7  
Old 11-20-2009, 05:06 PM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit View Post
I say final because the thread ended up deteriorating exactly as I projected it would if that kind of thing didn't stop. It's a moot point now.
Do you still not recognize and own YOUR role in the deteriorating of that thread? Here's the thing. When people aren't accountable, they quickly become irrelevant. You offended people. "Clarifications" as you put it do not rectify that situation. Either you own it or you don't. Clearly you still don't seem to think anyone had any reason to be offended or just didn't understand what you "really" meant, so that says you're not willing to own it or be accountable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit View Post
Your behavior here in using a public forum for personal attacks is unacceptable. There are easy ways to launch those attacks if that's what you feel the need to do and we're happy to talk, discuss, debate etc in private. It's however extremely detrimental to the board followers and it usually will result in you being banned if the Admin or Moderators are on their toes.
I think lack of accountability is more detrimental to the forums.

Perhaps a thread should be started about your lack of accountability? Would that satisfy your need to box away this conversation?

It also seems you've self-appointed yourself as the moderator of any thread you start. The purpose of these boards is to have free and open discussion of things. Sometimes it necessitates going off topic in order for the discussion of the topic to be more authentic. For example, examining the validity of a premise that is being used as the basis for a discussion on a thread (as you simply refused to do on the other thread in question).

So again, I ask. How about a little humility and respect for the people who have contributed to this forum for a while? Is that honestly too hard for you to do?
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  #8  
Old 11-20-2009, 05:50 PM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit View Post
It's however extremely detrimental to the board followers and it usually will result in you being banned if the Admin or Moderators are on their toes.
The mods are paying attention, thank you (though I am not hanging on every word in every thread in which you're participating). I have yet to see anything cross the line to where I will take action. The mods do not exist to quell disagreement and conflict--we're here to make certain the discussion remains reasonable.

I find the passive-aggressive threatening of another member with supposed impending moderator action to be amusing. You don't speak for the moderation crew, so please refrain from attempting to do so.

I see folks calling you on your behavior. I don't see ad hominem attacks launched at you. As long as the criticism stays focused on your behavior and not your person, it's acceptable on the board--because dissension is allowed as a normal part of reasonable discussion and debate.

It is up to you to take responsibility for your behavior and to settle differences with those you have a conflict with. It is not for the moderation crew to step in and save you. We'll deal with posts and posters who step over the line--we won't censor anybody simply because of conflict playing out on the boards.
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When speaking of various forms of non-monogamy...it ain't poly if you're just fucking around.

While polyamory, open relationships, and swinging are all distinctly different approaches to non-monogamy, they are not mutually exlusive. Folks can, and some do, engage in more than one of them at a time--and it's all good.
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  #9  
Old 11-20-2009, 07:01 PM
Fidelia Fidelia is offline
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I'll write more later, but what I need to say now is:

GroundedSpirit, I have no personal vendetta against you.
I have a vendetta against disrespect and lack of accountability.

Last edited by Fidelia; 11-21-2009 at 06:40 AM. Reason: typo
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  #10  
Old 11-20-2009, 07:57 PM
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ImaginaryIllusion ImaginaryIllusion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhCrow View Post
--we won't censor anybody simply because of conflict playing out on the boards.
Which is one of the reasons why this place rocks!
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How did I get here & Where am I going?
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