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  #21  
Old 11-18-2009, 05:11 PM
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Perhaps you won't ever have to face a situation where such prejudices marginalize you or take away your rights. .
This is a good point Ceoli. I must admit that I have always been in the mainstream of society. (Middle class, white, straight, monogamous and oh so vanilla). From birth to adulthood I have played by the rules, blended with ease and never challenged the norms. I simply fit in to the majority so I don't have the experience to understand the struggles of others who have not shared my past....this is why I feel little passion in challenging things that essentially only affect me if I chose to let them.

Redpepper is teaching me a lot about opening my mind to other lifestyles, social influences and the people that make up the world. I aproach this knew awareness with interest but not the same passion she has.
My life is really very simple in many ways.
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  #22  
Old 11-18-2009, 05:21 PM
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Anyone want to open a "Commitment" thread ? Anyone feel the need?
Yes. That would be fantastic.
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  #23  
Old 11-18-2009, 05:52 PM
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I'm a little lost in this Ceoli, please help me understand. I do not live as society tells me I am supposed to (poly relationship). I chose not to concern myself with the judgement of that society....how is that a right that others don't have? It's a choice.

If you are implying that I am not an activist or promoting the acceptance of poly relationships then you are correct. I'm not an activist and feel no need to push for acceptance. If people or society don't like how I live so what? I'm not asking for legal rights and am not doing anything illegal.
I'm not implying that you need to be an activist. You are able to choose to not be affected by the general view of society. The ability to make that choice is a privilege. And there are a lot of people who don't have such a privilege. They are not asking for permission or seeking approval. They are just looking for the same things everyone else gets without having to earn it. That's all I'm saying.

For another example: You have the right to get married to a person whom matches your sexual orientation. Gay people in most places don't have this right. They have a harder time adopting and have to do a heck of a lot more work than most to get the same basic rights from getting insurance coverage to buying a house together that other people enjoy without issue. When issues are raised about it, those gay people are not asking for permission because they already have to do that for the same basic things most of us don't have to. They have to work a lot harder to get the same basic securities in relationships that straight people already have.

Those straight people don't have to challenge that system because it does not affect their life. Now, to put this in a poly context:

I had a friend who was in a poly triad who's ex-husband attempted to terminate her parental rights because of the nature of her relationship. The case went to court and thankfully went in her favor, but in researching precedents, we found out that it was the exception to the rule. We still live in a society that does not legally recognize the romantic bond if it involves more than two people.

Again, you don't have to worry about that because that situation doesn't affect you. You have that privilege. There are lots of people out there who don't have that privilege. They have to set up all sorts of legal protections for themselves just to enjoy the same basic rights of a secure loving home. Poly people may not be doing anything illegal by living together (although it should be noted that in Canada it still is illegal and is currently in the process of being upheld and enforced), but poly people do not have the same access or options for building legally secure homes that other people have. Poly people have to adjust how they structure things to accommodate that inequity.

Even for myself, I have to be aware that being out as poly person would jeopardize my ability to be a public school teacher because of the assumptions that parents would carry and the subsequent concerns that they would raise. Despite that, I still have a certain amount of privilege to not be bothered by it but I choose not to let that allow me to not be concerned for the injustice that others face.

If you're living with such privilege where things don't have that kind of effect on you, then it's easy to perceive others who take issue with it as "asking for permission" or "needing approval to feel comfortable", when it's far deeper issue than that.

I brought this up because you asked me why I would be concerned with the ideals of monogamy. You then perceived my answer as nothing more than seeking acceptance in order to be comfortable with myself. I'm just offering the explanation of why this is not the case. Privilege has a lot to do with that. I'm not saying or implying that you should or shouldn't do anything with that privilege. Just laying out why I choose to do what I do with mine.
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  #24  
Old 11-18-2009, 06:08 PM
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Poly people may not be doing anything illegal by living together (although it should be noted that in Canada it still is illegal and is currently in the process of being upheld and enforced),
There is absolutely no law in Canada saying it is illegal for poly people to co-habitate in a dwelling. There is a law that says you can't be married to more than one person or common law. We have a law against polygamy, not multiple loves.

EDIT: I am wrong Keep reading
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Last edited by MonoVCPHG; 11-18-2009 at 09:14 PM.
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  #25  
Old 11-18-2009, 06:24 PM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
There is absolutely no law in Canada saying it is illegal for poly people to co-habitate in a dwelling. There is a law that says you can't be married to more than one person or common law. We have a law against polygamy, not multiple loves.
According to this site: http://polyinthemedia.blogspot.com/2...wn-out-in.html

"The law mandates up to five years in jail for people who merely live as if they are plurally married, whether or not they have held a marriage-like ceremony. The penalty is the same for anyone who "assists" at such a ceremony. For instance, bringing potluck food to a triad's handfasting party would qualify.

A follow up call for poly people to testify is here:

http://polyinthemedia.blogspot.com/2...-for-poly.html
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  #26  
Old 11-18-2009, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Ceoli View Post
According to this site: http://polyinthemedia.blogspot.com/2...wn-out-in.html

"The law mandates up to five years in jail for people who merely live as if they are plurally married, whether or not they have held a marriage-like ceremony. The penalty is the same for anyone who "assists" at such a ceremony. For instance, bringing potluck food to a triad's handfasting party would qualify.

]
You got me there! The law is in fact worded "293. (1) Every one who (a) practices or enters into or in any manner agrees or consents to practice or enter into (i) any form of polygamy, or (ii) any conjugal union with more than one person at the same time, whether or not it is by law recognized as a binding form of marriage, or (b) celebrates, assists, or is a party to a rite, ceremony, contract or consent that purports to sanction a marriage mentioned in subparagraph (a)(i) and (ii), is guilty of an indictable offense and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years."

It has also been used only twice in 100 years and is directed at polygamists who use multiple marraigeS primarily in abusive ways towards young women. I see no wrong in that. It has never been used against a poly person as far as my research indicates.
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Last edited by MonoVCPHG; 11-18-2009 at 06:55 PM.
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  #27  
Old 11-18-2009, 07:00 PM
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It has also been used only twice in 100 years and is directed at polygamists who use multiple marraigeS primarily in abusive ways towards young women. I see no wrong in that. It has never been used against a poly person as far as my research indicates.
But test cases such as these are important for setting legal precedents that can either increase or decrease the legal restrictions for how people love one another. So while the law has only been enforced twice, I wonder how many times cases around this law have been used to set legal precedents that restrict marriage rights. It is something of interest enough in the poly community for people to have called for mobilization.

Simply because an unjust law hasn't been enforced isn't reason enough to not call for it's repeal.
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  #28  
Old 11-18-2009, 07:07 PM
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Simply because an unjust law hasn't been enforced isn't reason enough to not call for it's repeal.
You're right Ceoli. I would support modifying the anti-polygamy law to be more specific.
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  #29  
Old 11-18-2009, 09:27 PM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
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I wouldn't say that. A mono friend of ours says he simply wouldn't have the energy or interest in trying to maintain more than one relationship. He's not mono because he thinks it's more moral or that a commitment relies on exclusivity or anything else; he simply doesn't want more than one romantic relationship to deal with at a time.

That suggests the reasons for living mono can vary the same as reasons for living poly. In the face of that, I certainly wouldn't say all mono folks view love as a zero sum game. I'd actually question the notion that most do--I suspect it's simply a structure that they find works for them most of the time. Some require the exclusivity (as does Mono), while for others it's just a way that works for them most of the time, while others view it as a moral thing, and so on.

All speculation on my part, of course.
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  #30  
Old 11-18-2009, 09:35 PM
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That suggests the reasons for living mono can vary the same as reasons for living poly. In the face of that, I certainly wouldn't say all mono folks view love as a zero sum game. I'd actually question the notion that most do--I suspect it's simply a structure that they find works for them most of the time. Some require the exclusivity (as does Mono), while for others it's just a way that works for them most of the time, while others view it as a moral thing, and so on.
That makes total sense. And honestly, I've never ruled out the idea of being monogamous at some point or another in life. It could happen or it might not happen. But my reasons are not because I would see poly as too hard or monogamy as a more normal thing. It's more about being open to relationships in any form the come to me. And I just don't see that much of a difference between them. Plus I've learned to never say never.....
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