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  #231  
Old 09-20-2011, 05:32 AM
Fiona Fiona is offline
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Default Tell me this gets easier?

My husband and I are each seeing someone right now, and those people are also seeing others. Right now I'm having a hard time of it, though. My husband wants to start dating a second person, and it's a lot more difficult for me to accept than I'd thought. I am very much an introvert, shy around new people, and have just begun to be very comfortable with my boyfriend. My husband, his girlfriend, and my boyfriend are all much more outgoing/gregarious people, and I'm just...not. I rarely make the sort of deep connection that makes me want to date someone. I have been feeling left out and lonely recently. Tonight, my husband is out with his girlfriend and I'm just sad. Not jealous exactly - I really like her and am glad that she makes him happy - but I feel sort of unimportant and alone.

I'm also feeling insecure about my relationship with my boyfriend - he recently broke things off with another person, and to be honest, I would've expected him to be having that conversation with me. He is very sweet, but sometimes I just don't understand what he sees in me.

My husband is amazing and very attentive to our relationship and my feelings, but I can't help feeling this way. I want to be happier, I want to see things in a positive light...but right now I'm just sad and lonely. This isn't rational at all, and I feel like I can't talk to anyone about it. I've never really felt like this before. Help?
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  #232  
Old 09-22-2011, 03:38 PM
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lemniscate lemniscate is offline
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To me it seems like what you're really feeling is afraid that you are not as loveable or important as the other folks in your situation rather than jealous per se, because as you say, you like your husband's girlfriend.

First of all, in my opinion, I am sure that there are things your boyfriend and husband see in you, since they are with you, and you seem like a smart kind person, even from this one post, so I'm sure that there are plenty of things about you to love.

My suggestion is to look at your feelings toward yourself irregardless of how the others in your life are treating you or behaving toward you. Do you like yourself? What talents do you have? What have you accomplished? Then look at yourself in regards to relationships; what do you bring to the table? What sorts of things are you good at that your partners appreciate? It seems to me that finding where you fit in with yourself, and then where you fit in with your partners will help you see your role in your group.

I don't know you, but I do know that in most poly relationships that work, everyone has a good role to play, and each person contributes a part that makes the whole. Just by reading your post I pick up that you're thoughtful and caring, and smart! There was nothing hateful or mean in what you said, it just seems like you're being honest about your feelings, and that's a step in the right direction.

Best,
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  #233  
Old 09-25-2011, 06:29 PM
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nouryia nouryia is offline
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Red face

Jealousy sucks. Just when I thought I was getting a handle on it, some new situation triggers it. My boyfriend has two full time mates with whom I get along wonderfully. However, he's currently on a little road trip with his male partner and they're planning on being physical with an online friend of his partner, a young kinky minded female.

I really didn't like how I felt when I learned of the trip, it made me insecure and worried. I wondered if she'd be more fun than me, or better in bed. He assured me it was only going to be sex. He has no romantic feelings for her and that I shouldn't worry. He even offered not to go if it made me uncomfortable. But in the end, I told him to go forth, have fun and that I trusted in his love. Now I'm focusing on not thinking about it...just looking forward to his return.
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  #234  
Old 09-27-2011, 02:39 PM
Fiona Fiona is offline
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Thank you for your thoughtful responses; I appreciate getting others' perspectives on situations like this. I haven't been feeling loveable or important; this has only been exacerbated by the conversation I had with my boyfriend last night, after not seeing him for two weeks (story for another time.) Now I'm just sad and upset; I'm not sure that things with my boyfriend are going to work out, and I'm kind of afraid of that, as my husband is dating one person and about to start seeing another. I've been feeling lonely anyway, and this isn't helping.
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  #235  
Old 02-04-2012, 08:54 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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I've been using the "standard poly definitions" of jealousy vs envy for quite some time:
jealousy = fear of losing something you have
envy = wanting what someone else has

But I just found an old forum post where someone dragged up a dictionary definition. Usually I pooh-pooh dictionary definitions when applied to poly stuffs... but in this case, I felt like reopening a discussion on it, since "jealousy" is a common human emotion and it's helpful if everyone means the same thing when they use those words.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/jealousy (similar to m-w also)
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/envy
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/insecurity

Wikipedia, however, seems to use the poly-definitions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jealousy

thesaurus.com has this interesting note: "jealousy is reflective of a person's feelings or attitudes toward another person, whereas envy expresses a person's feelings or attitudes toward another person's advantages or accomplishments; jealousy pertains to emotional rivalry while envy is resentment of a more fortunate person"

And that's really more in-line with what I understood to be the difference before I started reading up on poly stuffs.
envy = Mmm, that guy has ice cream. I wish I had ice cream.
jealousy = That bitch has ice cream.
fear of loss = That dog is eying up my ice cream, I think he's going to try and steal it.
insecurity = I don't deserve this ice cream and I sure hope no one catches on or else they'll take my ice cream.

While I fully agree that jealousy usually stems from insecurity or a fear of loss rather than simply wanting what someone else has and hating them for it.. I think I no longer agree that they're one and the same thing...

Thoughts?
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
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The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."

Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 02-04-2012 at 09:02 AM.
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  #236  
Old 02-04-2012, 09:01 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Default My thoughts

My first inclination is to go with the dictionary definition, and then say outright "fear of loss" when that's what I mean.

After all, dictionaries have been sources of word meanings for much longer than wikipedia. There's actually no source given for wiki's definition, and it's really just that no one seems to have contested it.

Furthermore, wikipedia's definition is actually inconsistent with its own examples:
Quote:
If one worker receives positive feedback from the boss while the other employee feels like they deserved that, positive feedback jealousy can arise.
Well, if another worker received positive feedback that the other "feels like they deserved" then they really aren't "losing" anything because they didn't have that positive feedback in the first place. They keep using this "lose services" phrase, and really stretches the phrasing to actually fit "loss" into the picture, e.g.
Quote:
One partner can feel the emotion of jealousy arise if the other partner is paying more attention or time with someone else. To lose services from one partner and have their attention directed towards someone else does not have to be in a romantic way.
This seems inconsistent with what we usually think of as romantic jealousy. For example, if your partner is out of town on business and he has a romantic date while he's there, some people would feel jealous of the other woman. But according to the "fear of loss" model, if the partner is already out of town then what are you losing? Isn't it more accurate to say you're envious of the other woman? And in the case of jealousy, you direct your emotions at her rather than the business that actually took your partner out of town? If she wasn't in the picture and the "date" was a dinner with a client, then few people would describe the longing for your partner as jealousy, even though the loss is identical in either situation.
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."

Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 02-04-2012 at 09:12 AM.
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  #237  
Old 02-04-2012, 12:09 PM
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catbird catbird is offline
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Default thesaurus.com

well, if you stick with the above mentioned definition of jealousy from thesaurus.com then jealousy would not so much say "that bitch has ice cream" as "that bitch has good looks, better than how i look."
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  #238  
Old 02-04-2012, 12:19 PM
chg2winter chg2winter is offline
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Default define

Will the definition help you navigate through it to a point of acceptance or growth? Then use it.

Thanks,
Dan
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  #239  
Old 02-04-2012, 07:12 PM
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NovemberRain NovemberRain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
This seems inconsistent with what we usually think of as romantic jealousy. For example, if your partner is out of town on business and he has a romantic date while he's there, some people would feel jealous of the other woman. But according to the "fear of loss" model, if the partner is already out of town then what are you losing? Isn't it more accurate to say you're envious of the other woman? And in the case of jealousy, you direct your emotions at her rather than the business that actually took your partner out of town? If she wasn't in the picture and the "date" was a dinner with a client, then few people would describe the longing for your partner as jealousy, even though the loss is identical in either situation.
The way I see it, if someone's out of town, you see them as returning. If they're on a romantic date, you could fear the loss of their return. (running off to join the circus/date)

My thought is that one reason people get married (only one, among thousands) is to stop that fear of loss. "I've married this person. It's forever. I never have to fear loss of this person." I'm not saying it's accurate, I'm not saying it's healthy. I'm saying I think it's common. [disclaimer: I've never been married.]
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  #240  
Old 02-04-2012, 11:20 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NovemberRain View Post
My thought is that one reason people get married (only one, among thousands) is to stop that fear of loss. "I've married this person. It's forever. I never have to fear loss of this person." I'm not saying it's accurate, I'm not saying it's healthy. I'm saying I think it's common. [disclaimer: I've never been married.]
I'm sure there's an element of truth to that. Despite the skyrocketing divorce rate, everyone goes into it expecting their own marriage to be "different." The problem is when people think that marriage will be a solution to anything, with the exception of not having your own health insurance...
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."
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communication, compassion, compersion, emotions, envy, feelings, jealous, jealousy, monogamy, poly, polyamory, possessiveness, relationship dynamics, relationship structures, relationships, respect, self esteem, unconscious

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