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Old 01-26-2012, 02:50 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Default MrsSmythe says "Hello!"

Brief Intro: (slightly expanded version posted under Personal Summaries)
37 y/o poly bi female, hinge in V with husband, MrS, (together for 20 years, married for 16) and bf, Dude, (I first met 20 mos ago, together for 9 mos). Dude has been essentially living with us since the the day we “got together” (we tease him that he is such a U-haul lesbian...>smile<). One bedroom house, one king-size bed – I get the middle. No kids. I also have two very relaxed LDR FWB type relationships (of 19 and 5 years duration) with bisexual women who have primary type relationships with men.

Poly/Relationship Views:
I've known I was poly since ...always (well before the word came into usage, according to Wikipedia, in 1990). I'm a huge fan of classic science fiction and Heinlein has been my favorite author since the age of 12. Many of my views on sex and relationships were/are quite obviously Heinlein influenced (so much so that when MrS and I got together I told him that he pretty much had to read The Moon is a Harsh Mistress and To Sail Beyond the Sunset if he wanted to have any hope of understanding me – he went on to read my entire, very complete, Heinlein collection – apparently he felt I was worth a fair amount of “understanding”).

Just because I self-identify as poly (and have now for 20 years), however, doesn't mean that I have a lot of experience with relationships. We do tend to use the primary/secondary/tertiary nomenclature (which I know not everyone is entirely comfortable with) but in a descriptive type of way. I have never “looked for” ANY type of relationship (and often avoid getting close to people if given the option - I don't make friends/form relationships easily at all - INTJ personality type?)

In my mind relationships are something that develop between people not something that can be shaped according to some script. A relationship is what it is, relationships change, people change. Forcing relationships (or people) to fit some mold or idea in my head seems like a set-up for disaster. Which isn't to say that boundaries and comfort-zones don't come into play (they so do!) but that we really need to be upfront about them (and their underlying reasons and/or insecurities) and people can choose to agree/disagree/renegotiate. Boundaries and comfort-zones ALSO change.

Bisexuality Views:
I've known I was bi since my (then future) husband pointed out that being attracted to (and sleeping with) men and women was, by definition, “bisexuality” (who knew you needed a word for that? My answer to “Are you straight or gay?” was always just “no”).

In some ways accepting the label of “bisexuality” has been way more annoying than I would think it should be due to the assumptions and misconceptions that seem to follow. I've been told that I am not “really” bisexual because I:
a.) am married (seriously?)
b.) have never been in a “serious” “primary” (or, even worse, “real”) relationship with a woman
c.) am not actively “seeking” such a relationship (evidently if I am bi then I MUST have one of each … or the cosmic balance of the universe is askew)
d.) am confused and experimenting to find out what I really want (this from both gays and straights) (I must be REALLY confused since I've been experimenting for the last 20 years)
e.) etc. etc. (planning on reading the BiFemale threads here to see how other women deal with this crap)

So when I say I'm bisexual I mean that I can be sexually attracted to both men and women – period. (I've slept with an approximately equal number of men and women if that matters – I don't think it does.) I am sexually attracted (or not) to an individual person – not their gender. I form relationships (or don't) with people – not their genitalia.


Why am I here?:

Back in the day (early to mid '90s) I used to lurk and occasionally post to alt.polyamory on Usenet (under a different pseudonym). But as nothing was changing in my own personal poly life I drifted away. Periodically I would check out what was up with the current state of the poly community (check out the newsgroups, surf the web, read a few issues of Loving More) and then drift away again. Now with a radical shift in my situation (i.e. Dude) I find myself in need of some poly community conversation – and am so pleased to find you all here and the conversations thriving. I have been particularly enjoying threads dealing with cohabitation, jealousy and poly/mono relationships.


PS.Other things you might notice about me – I am a.) long-winded and b.) overly fond of parenthetical asides...and ellipses >grin<.
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:26 AM
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NovemberRain NovemberRain is offline
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Welcome, JaneQ!

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Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe View Post
(we tease him that he is such a U-haul lesbian...>smile<).
that made me lol
I make all my lovers listen to me read the Lesbian Date from JoAnn Loulan.

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Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe View Post
One bedroom house, one king-size bed – I get the middle.
I'd be fascinated to hear about how an INTJ loves to share a bed with two men. My I-something bf stated he never wanted to live with anyone again (that's when I knew it wouldn't work). But a few months ago, for the first time ever, he said we needed to hurry up and buy a house with a garage apartment so he could live there.

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Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe View Post
I'm a huge fan of classic science fiction and Heinlein has been my favorite author since the age of 12. Many of my views on sex and relationships were/are quite obviously Heinlein influenced
OMG THANK YOU! I read Heinlein as a child. Stranger was sort of my family's equivalent of a bible (and it led to lots of misery). You are the first (identified) person I have met who read Heinlein as young as I did. My dad was the scifi fan. My parents had this theory on books: I was allowed to read anything I could reach and found interesting. I did read some stuff I'd wished I hadn't. Not Heinlein. I did love that. It was many, many years before I understood its influence on my family. I think being exposed to such ideas so young, as if they were the most ordinary thing in the world ~ makes them quite ordinary.

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Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe View Post
Bisexuality Views:
I've known I was bi since my (then future) husband pointed out that being attracted to (and sleeping with) men and women was, by definition, “bisexuality” (who knew you needed a word for that? My answer to “Are you straight or gay?” was always just “no”).

In some ways accepting the label of “bisexuality” has been way more annoying than I would think it should be due to the assumptions and misconceptions that seem to follow. I've been told that I am not “really” bisexual because I:
a.) am married (seriously?)
b.) have never been in a “serious” “primary” (or, even worse, “real”) relationship with a woman
c.) am not actively “seeking” such a relationship (evidently if I am bi then I MUST have one of each … or the cosmic balance of the universe is askew)
d.) am confused and experimenting to find out what I really want (this from both gays and straights) (I must be REALLY confused since I've been experimenting for the last 20 years)
e.) etc. etc. (planning on reading the BiFemale threads here to see how other women deal with this crap)

So when I say I'm bisexual I mean that I can be sexually attracted to both men and women – period. (I've slept with an approximately equal number of men and women if that matters – I don't think it does.) I am sexually attracted (or not) to an individual person – not their gender. I form relationships (or don't) with people – not their genitalia.
WoW. me too? It is so lovely to see my words pouring out of someone else's fingers. I myself got less annoyed with labels when I realized that the phrase 'well,...I don't *like* labels' was the only thing I could find that almost all bisexual folks have in common. I pay words extra to make them do as I please, so I tend to be more relaxed about labels.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe View Post
PS.Other things you might notice about me – I am a.) long-winded and b.) overly fond of parenthetical asides...and ellipses >grin<.
I find all these things quite delightful, and am so glad you're here.

I'm in an old emotional triad, which is a newly sexual vee with me at the hinge. It's quite an adventure.
__________________
Love is that condition in which the happiness of another person is essential to your own...
Robert A. Heinlein

Me: female, bi, (formerly hinge of a vee)
with FirstBoyFriend (FBF)(moderately long-distance)
and no longer with CurrentBoyFriend (CBF)(who lives in the apartment building next door)
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Old 01-27-2012, 01:10 AM
FelixTheCat FelixTheCat is offline
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Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe View Post
I'm a huge fan of classic science fiction and Heinlein has been my favorite author since the age of 12. Many of my views on sex and relationships were/are quite obviously Heinlein influenced...
Same here, though I took a more roundabout way into Heinlein, starting with the juvenile adventure (JA) books (Have Space Suit, Will Travel is still one of my favourites, and my oldest daughter has read it, too) and then moving into the Lazarus Long books. I actually didn't read Stranger until after I was married and WOW! what an eye-opener. Still read 'em, still love 'em.

And of course, we won't get into all of the Asimov, Clarke, Bova, Stephenson and others I've inhaled over the years...

Anyways, welcome!

Felix
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Old 01-27-2012, 03:27 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Default 3-In-A-Bed and closeness issues

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Originally Posted by NovemberRain View Post
/
I'd be fascinated to hear about how an INTJ loves to share a bed with two men.
Sharing the bed is not generally a problem for me - 3 (or 4 ) in a bed just means that my feet never get cold and anybody can get as many cuddles as they need (or not). It's emotional not physical closeness that I find … um, frightening?

I realized when I was writing the “Dude as Uhaul lesbian” line that a similar thing happened when I hooked up with the future-MrS, oh, so many years ago. The second night we were up at college we went from friend-of-a-friend to FWB … and I never really left. I spent maybe 6 nights that first semester in my dorm room and the rest at his apartment (which he shared with 5 other people). BUT, I was in complete denial about the fact that I had feelings for him! (I am, in fact, an idiot). At one point, about 4 months into this, one of our close friends (who was also his roommate) said something to MrS in my presence about his “girlfriend”. MrS just looked surprised and my blurted comment was “MrS doesn't have a girlfriend!?...I would know – I'm here all the time!” (I did mention that I am an idiot, right?)

I've never been able to tolerate casual friendships. As much as I enjoy talking with people at work – I'll debate anybody on anything (religion, politics, sex, ethics – all fair game). When the work day is done I have absolutely NO interest in going out for drinks or getting together for a social event. I want to go home to my “nest” and have a beer and read into the wee hours of the night. Home is where I recharge and regain my energy and my peace. (As long as the only people there are my boys or REALLY close friends – I don't tolerate “outside” people in our “nest” very well).

Our house has a really funky layout – very few but very large rooms. The library/living/dining room is “mine” - it has all my books (over 3000 at last count), musical instruments, “collections” etc. I decide what furniture goes in it, how its laid out/decorated etc. The TV/computer/media room is MrSs – he has control over what “stuff” goes there; he and Dude can usually be found there and it is where we hang out when we are doing (non-sex) stuff together. Dude doesn't really have his own space (then again he doesn't really have much “stuff” either) but he and MrS share the kitchen and garage/workshop so he could easily carve out space if he felt the need (or the “gear room” where we keep all the “other crap” that could be moved to the attic).

The bedroom is everyone's and if someone goes in (not at bedtime) and shuts the door (it's kind of the only room with a door) then it's polite to ask if they want company. Our sleep schedules are rather staggered so the “3-in-a-bed” happens in irregular shifts. Let's see – last night MrS went to bed at 11, I went to bed at 12:30, Dude came to bed around 4, I got up at 8, MrS got up late morning and Dude got up early afternoon – so I only got 4 hours of “middle” time. Poor JaneQ – everyone must feels sooo sorry for her !





I
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Old 01-27-2012, 05:14 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Default SF books - Yes!

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Originally Posted by FelixTheCat View Post
... I actually didn't read Stranger until after I was married and WOW! what an eye-opener. Still read 'em, still love 'em.

And of course, we won't get into all of the Asimov, Clarke, Bova, Stephenson and others I've inhaled over the years...

Anyways, welcome!

Felix
Thanks for the kind welcome!

"Still read 'em, still love 'em." Oh, Yes!

I'm an avid reader and book collector - or perhaps I should say "hoarder". (The condition/value of the book being completely irrelevant.) I've never understood people who couldn't understand how I can read the same books over and over again. I am a very fast reader and I find that as I read books over and over I see things I missed the first time - often memes and references to others in the genre that I have read in the meantime.

I read my Heinlein collection at least annually (usually in one week-long binge - juveniles, lazarus long, short stories - all one fell swoop). I read Asimov's Foundation series and robot novels at least every other year - not because they are necessarily my favorites but so much of subsequent SF is built on these early foundations. Clarke is not my favorite but I am a classic SF "completist" so my collection is still extensive. I'm probably in the minority in that Philip K. Dick and Ray Bradbury are way low on my list - though I keep trying (although if I had a nickel for every time I tried to get through "Dandelion Wine"...)

Outside of the classics? William Gibson, Bruce Sterling, Vernor Vinge, Neal Stephenson, Kim Stanley Robinson, some of Greg Bear/Gregory Benford/David Brin (introduced via the Second Foundation Trilogy), fair amount of OSC (read them all - liked a number of them).

There are other books (LOTR, The Stand) that I read on at least an annual basis. But day-in-day-out comfort reading...SF is my genre. (My current library runs to over 3000 volumes. 2/3 fiction 1/3 NF - almost 1/2 of the fiction section is SF. I catalogue my library on LibraryThing.com - got tired of buying duplicates!)
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:17 AM
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NovemberRain NovemberRain is offline
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Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe View Post
Sharing the bed is not generally a problem for me - 3 (or 4 ) in a bed just means that my feet never get cold and anybody can get as many cuddles as they need (or not). It's emotional not physical closeness that I find … um, frightening?
And that may turn out to be the single most useful thing I've learned this year. Thank you.

I don't know that my bf is an INTJ, but he's definitely close to that. Some things you say remind me of him very much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe View Post
I've never been able to tolerate casual friendships. As much as I enjoy talking with people at work – I'll debate anybody on anything (religion, politics, sex, ethics – all fair game). When the work day is done I have absolutely NO interest in going out for drinks or getting together for a social event. I want to go home to my “nest” and have a beer and read into the wee hours of the night. Home is where I recharge and regain my energy and my peace. (As long as the only people there are my boys or REALLY close friends – I don't tolerate “outside” people in our “nest” very well).
He is very similar, but it seems he doesn't want anyone at all in his nest, except for brief visits. Which I do, because he is very welcoming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe View Post
– so I only got 4 hours of “middle” time. Poor JaneQ – everyone must feels sooo sorry for her !
lol, yes, poor JaneQ!


I am also a book hoarder. My mom said to me, 'I'm so sorry I haven't anything of substance to leave to you.' and I said, 'mom, all I want is the books.' Unfortunately, I'm an apartment dweller, and am just not 20 anymore, it's getting very difficult to haul them around. I currently live alone in a three bedroom apartment and am so happy to have a 'library' of my own! doubles as a guest room with the air mattress.
__________________
Love is that condition in which the happiness of another person is essential to your own...
Robert A. Heinlein

Me: female, bi, (formerly hinge of a vee)
with FirstBoyFriend (FBF)(moderately long-distance)
and no longer with CurrentBoyFriend (CBF)(who lives in the apartment building next door)
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Old 01-28-2012, 03:46 AM
FelixTheCat FelixTheCat is offline
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Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe View Post
I'm an avid reader and book collector - or perhaps I should say "hoarder". (The condition/value of the book being completely irrelevant.) I've never understood people who couldn't understand how I can read the same books over and over again. I am a very fast reader and I find that as I read books over and over I see things I missed the first time - often memes and references to others in the genre that I have read in the meantime.
Guilty. My wife and young 'uns are always asking me, "Are you reading that again?" I try to read some of my favourites on a semi-regular basis (like LOTR...hmmm, been a couple of years, maybe I should start reading that again, as soon as I finish Starman Jones for the umpteenth time... )

We're planning a move in the near- to mid-future, and I'm just not sure how I'm going to get all of my books in the bookshelves - plus the ones I haven't unpacked since we moved to our current place 12 years ago - moved. I'm afraid I may have to...gulp...get rid of some .

Felix The Cat
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Old 01-28-2012, 04:45 PM
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zappafreak zappafreak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe View Post
Poly/Relationship Views:
I've known I was poly since ...always (well before the word came into usage, according to Wikipedia, in 1990). I'm a huge fan of classic science fiction and Heinlein has been my favorite author.
Hey, me too! I just registered on the forum, and find it pretty amusing that this is the very first post that I read. Been reading Heinlein for about 25yrs, since a young teen, and I just loaned a few copies to my girlfriend. She tried The Cat Who Walks Through Walls but ...gasp! Didnt like it! I was pretty surprised....but ah well, still like her anyway.

Guess it would make sense that Heinlein would be popular in the Poly community. I'm new here, but I will post something else about myself...just wanted to share my love for Heinlein.

Last edited by zappafreak; 01-28-2012 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 01-29-2012, 05:19 PM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Default I never have enough bookcases!

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We're planning a move in the near- to mid-future, and I'm just not sure how I'm going to get all of my books in the bookshelves -
This has been an Perpetual Problem!

We moved about 18 mos ago into this, our ForeverHome. At the time of the move I acquired 4 more fullsize bookcases from my in-laws (bringing the total to 15). What do you know? By the time I was done unpacking there were still piles of books with no home!

One of our future projects (after the old house is fixed up and sold and the dog runs are up) is that MrS and Dude have promised me floor-to-ceiling built in bookcases with adjustable shelves along all of the available wall-space in my library/living/dining room so I can utilize the foot or so of space between the ceiling and the top of the books on TOP of the bookshelves that is just going to waste. I'm considering some alternative shelving styles with back-to-back units coming out perpendicular to the walls to gain even more space...There is a group on LibraryThing (where I catalog my books) dedicated to just this sort of thing: Bookcases: If You Build/Buy Them, They Will Fill (http://www.librarything.com/groups/bookcasesifyoubuild)

The other problem I ran into was that I started packing my library about 3 monthss before the move (I used the beer boxes I had been saving up for just that purpose – heavy, but not TOO heavy, and stack well.) (I've attached a picture of one of the piles - let's see if it works). Of course, a few weeks later I would “need” one of the already packed books and have to move a bunch of boxes to get at it (being OCD the boxes were all meticulously labeled – I've been through this process before!)

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Originally Posted by FelixTheCat View Post
I'm afraid I may have to...gulp...get rid of some .
Aack! I find it very difficult to get rid of books. To me they are kinda like kittens – you have to know that they are going to a good home where they will be loved and cared for! When I DO have to part with some of my “preciouses” I list them on BookMooch, an international bookswapping site. (Of course, then I have points that I use to get more books...so the problem sorta repeats itself...)
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Old 01-29-2012, 05:45 PM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Default Heinlein and Polyamory

Zappafreak: Hello, and welcome! I'm tickled that you found something in the first post that you read here (mine ) that you can relate to.

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Guess it would make sense that Heinlein would be popular in the Poly community.
It does make sense... but I have certainly also talked with poly people who objected to some/many of Heinlein's concepts (especially with regards to women). I do have to point out sometimes that the man started writing about this mid-century when our society was in a much different place and we didn't have the benefit of all of the writings and conversations that have occurred over the past several decades.

Cherie L. Ve Ard wrote a very nice article on the "Influence of the Science Fiction Writings of Robert A. Heinlein on Polyamory" if you are interested in reading more about it...http://www.serolynne.com/heinlein.htm

For those of us who started reading Heinlein at a very young age I agree with what NovemberRain pointed out above (sorry NR - I don't know how to quote from a different post yet) "I think being exposed to such ideas so young, as if they were the most ordinary thing in the world ~ makes them quite ordinary."

Of course I have also conversed with tons of RAH fans who object to his treatment of sex/love/relationships...but THAT doesn't surprise me at all. (Nor does the fact that my intro thread turns into a Books/SF/Heinlein thread - that happens to me a LOT - I could post in a knitting forum and would STILL end up talking about this!)

Last edited by JaneQSmythe; 01-29-2012 at 05:46 PM. Reason: point to who I am replying to
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