Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Spirituality & Polyamory

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 01-13-2012, 11:08 PM
km34 km34 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 624
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vermin06 View Post
(I'm saying "you" in a general sense throughout this post, not necessarily as YOU btw haha).

Man, I was so ready to just get all bitchy about you accusing me of things and then you had to go and qualify it... Just kidding. I appreciate the fact that you thought out your response, and I really didn't expect anyone to change my mind. I just like hearing (or reading) people's thoughts.

The "If a man lieth with another man" verse is one that I have heard is a poor translation from the original Hebrew. I don't know Hebrew, so I can't say this definitively, but I have taken a Hebrew Bible class where the instructor knew Hebrew, and he also claims that the verse had an 'ALSO' in it. If so a more accurate translation would be "If a man ALSO lies with another man as he lies with a woman..." Which would then seem to prohibit bisexuality (in which case, I'm screwed - and not in the good way) but perhaps homosexuality is okay.

I don't think there is an answer to my question... Am I naive? Perhaps. But if I am then I am going to choose to remain in denial about it until something that speaks of a deeper truth comes along.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-14-2012, 02:56 AM
vermin06 vermin06 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 21
Default

When discussing/defending the Bible, it's hard especially when we bring in possible past translations. If you want to go down that road, then "sin" isn't actually an act or crime that separates you from God as it was translated from the Greek word, "hamartia" which means "missing the mark". Then you'd have to start looking into other books and scriptures and gospels and books that aren't even in the Bible, but are definitely Christian literature. Then discerning which are based off oral traditions, or possible re-writes of older versions or early translations. THEN you there's the whole no reference-able authors to the books of the Bible.

It's all very messy, and I'd rather simplify things for myself by looking to myself, to my community and society, and current writings for truths about morality and looking to life to give me valuable life lessons. I personally think the Bible gets talked up more than it should. I kind of view it like any other way of learning something; if you want to learn the truth about the subject, get up-to-date information. If I want to understand modern English mechanics, I'm not going to look at Shakespear, then pick and choose what I feel is best used and discern that as the best source available for such knowledge.

Same with morality and marriage. I'm not going to look to the Bible for those truths when I have up to date, modern sources that actually relate and come from a society and culture with certain pressures and environments. So, I think, when dealing with marriage, we have deeper truths that don't rely on gender/sex role assignments, but rather deal with significance of the individual, which didn't make sense to do 2000 years ago in the Judeo-Christian cultures.

Sorry if I can't offer any useful answers for you, but this really is a wonderful thread so far, haha!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-14-2012, 03:28 AM
km34 km34 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 624
Default

Eh.. I didn't really have any specific questions. I just see people mentioning (more often than not in an incredibly insulting fashion) the "Christian marriage" concept all of the time and in my experience "Christian marriages" tend to be very loving, so I find it interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-14-2012, 04:15 AM
vermin06 vermin06 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 21
Default

Ah, I see. Yes, I think the word "Puritan" or "Biblical" gets replaced with "Christian" because Puritan values were inspired by old fundamentalist views on parts of the Bible. Then again, some people get offended at the thought of ONE person in the relationship "running the house hold" when they feel love is about finding equilibrium between partners. I'm willing to bet you'd get a few answers if I'd shut my mouth and stopped flooding your thread.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-14-2012, 08:04 AM
neegoola's Avatar
neegoola neegoola is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: italy
Posts: 89
Default

km,
both ways you take The Bible (in general or in specific passages) it is a book containing many horror situations (if someone smashes your teeth with a fist, would you react with: "oohh, but he is very good in cooking?!"),
lies (for instance: we don't have any hystorical reference that Jesus existed and wisdom words you may find coming out from his mouth are present in very ancient cultures like Vedas and others..)
and there is no innovation at all in it if not towards destruction*;
IMO the bible should have no value also because many of the topics were stolen to other cultures; the myth of someone coming to light and simbolizing the sun is much older than the characters that the poor (of course christians became so many in short time because they were obliged to it to save their neck or because they were very hungry and ready to preach to any monogod around so to obtain at least a piece of bread from the powerful rich institution born officially through Constantin job)) new church copied.

i ask: why should you lean on the bible that support the same churches you say you don't feel in attending? there's plenty of spiritual messages in our last 5.000 years till now and time is coming for very big and hard changements:
it is not any more the Pisces era (fishes bite anything BELIEVING it's safe food); Acquarian period means STUDYING and KNOWING: no faith anymore, but intelligence and critical spirit according to one's own ...type!


*if you still feel in analizing one specifical passage:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...18&version=KJV


Heinlein founded: "you are god, i am god".
__________________
"as long a i live, i vow to die and be reborn, die and be reborn, die and be reborn, over and over again, forever reinventing myself" r.brezsny
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-16-2012, 05:56 PM
SourGirl's Avatar
SourGirl SourGirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: South of an Igloo, North of a Desert.
Posts: 885
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenandCountry View Post
Just an opinion, but the bible itself has very little influence on the beliefs of many "Christians".
That is true. I have a belief in God, not just a 'higher power', but I do not believe in the bible. At all. Even as a kid, I found most of it to be a crock o' crap.

I am Catholic...without guilt.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-17-2012, 02:25 PM
RunicWolf RunicWolf is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 154
Default

The part that frustrates me on "Christian Marriages", or most anything the hardcore right wing Christians preach, is that 98% of their arguments against homosexuality come from the Old Testament.

The particular part of the bible they call to also forbids the wearing of gold or silver jewelry, clothes made of two or more fabrics, and so on. It's got laws about how much you can sell your daughter for into slavery. It's a very blatant "We're going to take this part and use it as a weapon, while ignoring everything else around it" situation. Also, the Old Testament was intended to be used as a history book and a reference to the old laws everyone around the Christian church was using. Jesus himself said that through him a new Covenant with God was formed, meaning that the old, antiquated laws that where being followed because they where the only way to get into heaven where now obsolete.

Jesus himself never makes mention of homosexuality, if memory serves me right. You know what he does mention a lot? Love. He wanted his new followers to love, and accept one another no matter their backgrounds. Jews, Gentiles, Romans, all accepted for who they are. Is sleeping around with both genders a crime? Jesus forgave and hung around with a prostitute. I think that's a pretty clear indicator that Jesus is pretty forgiving of "sexual deviance" just so long as you believe and act in accordance with how he wanted us to live.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-17-2012, 04:37 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: US
Posts: 1,314
Default

I find frustrating that 'Christian' and 'Christian marriage' have been appropriated by the radical, fundamentalist, evangelical right. (OP, I am not saying you are doing this!) It's to the point that liberal or moderate Christians are effectively erased from a public presence in the US. Christian marriage can look and feel and be different depending if the marriage is Catholic, liberal Episcopalian or Southern Baptist. There will be some commonalities of course but marriage in all of these Christian denominations has different approaches to the purpose of marriage, gender roles if any and so on.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-18-2012, 06:53 PM
jasminegld jasminegld is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by km34 View Post
I see a lot of people comment on having been in and taught the "Christian Marriage" and it being a major hurdle to their journey to poly. ...What I am curious about is why Christian husbands tend to get a bad reputation for being repressive and completely controlling.
The "Christian Marriage" that initially was a hurdle for me was the unspoken assumption that monogamy is automatic and unquestionable. And in fact, simply asking one's spouse to TALK about nonmonogamy -- without taking any action -- has the potential to seriously stress or even break up a marriage.

Quote:
Am I just completely naive in thinking that the Bible as a whole teaches us to be loving and respectful of everyone regardless of gender, marital status, sexuality, or any other qualifier?
This is a message that can be taken from the Bible. It all depends on how one chooses to read it.

Jasmine
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-19-2012, 02:30 PM
IsobelR IsobelR is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
I find frustrating that 'Christian' and 'Christian marriage' have been appropriated by the radical, fundamentalist, evangelical right. (OP, I am not saying you are doing this!) It's to the point that liberal or moderate Christians are effectively erased from a public presence in the US. Christian marriage can look and feel and be different depending if the marriage is Catholic, liberal Episcopalian or Southern Baptist. There will be some commonalities of course but marriage in all of these Christian denominations has different approaches to the purpose of marriage, gender roles if any and so on.
THIS!

As with all religions texts, there are so many interpretations. As an historical text, much of the Bible just isn't relevant today. Wearing two different cloths? That would have been flaunting your wealth in a very un-Christlike way. Lying with a man as with a woman? In my mind, that's more about social standing of the time than actual intercourse. I could be wrong.
Mind you, I tend to take most of the Old Testament with a pinch of salt. It was written in the spirit of its time, with laws that mostly made sense then, but not now.

The way I have always tried to live out my religion is with 1 Corinthians 13. 'Love is gentle, love is kind' etcetc. Christ was all about love It's why, for my, my polyamory is intertwined with my faith. People (often other Christians) can tell me about the sanctity of marriage, the lies of evolution and how those who don't believe will burn in hell until they're blue in the face, but I won't believe it or agree with them.
In MY mind, God is forgiving, with infinite love for all of creation (or the world, if you so prefer). You don't have to believe in Her, be monogomous, have 6 wives (but only wives...) to have Her love, She gives it whether you want it or not, and whether or not you jump through the correct hoops.
Love God, love your neighbour, however hard that may be. Even if you don't believe in God, the second isn't a bad idea for your life

For the original question...I'm going to go back to the whole 'Bible as historical text' thing. In antiquity, the husband WAS the head of the household and could be expected to be deferred to in all things. Not so much anymore.
__________________
The unicorn they never knew they needed.
http://morethantwo-lessthanthree.blogspot.com/ for my views on God, Polyamory and Life.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
beliefs, christianity vs. poly

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:41 PM.