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  #91  
Old 12-29-2011, 06:16 AM
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He told me, that even if I am not a materialist, money still makes me feel secure. I don't need fancy things but I need the knowledge of having the basic needs met in the long run.
Well, I consider myself very non-materialistic, but I don't function well without basic financial security. I don't care if I don't have stuff, but I need to know I'll have a roof and food, and it is strange to think of a person who wouldn't need that.

I was extremely stressed out about money for the whole of last year when we had moved here and Alec couldn't get work. Luckily he's now got a job but it barely covers our living expences and my student allowance will run out soon, two years before I graduate. And I know I am not able to work while studying, I have tried before and my studies suffered way too much. So, I still have a lot of stress, and there isn't much I can do about any of the situational factors in play.

But I do have a technique that has been helpful in the past: I imagine the worst-case-scenario, and what I would do if that happened. You have a relatively good welfare state in Germany, right? So your worst financial fears come true: neither Lin or Sward will be able to work, say, for the whole of next year. What will happen? Whether it is because of physical restrictions, or non-availability of work, or both, I'm betting there's some income you do get your way. Probably not quite enough to live as usual, but likely enough to keep a roof over your head, do you think?

I know this kind of thinking used to help me quite a bit back in Home Country, since I always concluded that even if the worst comes to happen (which, in itself is quite unlikely) we will have the basics and survive. Doesn't help so much in the country I live in now, since the benefits here aren't something that can be relied on; thus, our second to worst-case-scenario is that Alec will move back to Home Country to work trying to support both of our living, and the worst-case-scenario is that I'll have to move back, too, before graduating. And particularly the last one scares the living crap out of me, since I've been a student for way too many years (changed universities twice, on the first time switching subject, on the second time country), and I really need to finish somewhere.

Sorry to flood your journal with my stress, as if you don't have enough of your own...
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  #92  
Old 12-29-2011, 09:29 AM
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No, I don't mind, in fact it helps reading this. So many similarities again. We didn't move during my studies, but I was hospitalized two times and have lost a semester each time I needed treatment there. Therefore I am a bit behind as well. And I was too comfortable just studying what I was interested in, this consumed quite some time as well. Your “I really need to finish somewhere” makes perfectly sense to me.

And you are right, we won't lose our flat or the be totally out of money along the way, but that will set us back more than one step. It's nothing compared to your fear of moving again, I don't want to think about the impact such an outlook would have on my sleeping habits … if I look at our situation from that perspective, the extension of our two person household with a third already had some positive effects money-wise. Maybe I would be more stressed with just Sward and me around.

Thanks for heartening me, it helped
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  #93  
Old 12-29-2011, 09:30 AM
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^So glad to hear that!
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  #94  
Old 01-01-2012, 01:26 PM
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So, here we are, a fresh new year waiting for us to explore what we will find along our way. It was a quiet night and really unspectacular, what made it kind of special in its own way. First of all:

Happy New Year to all of you.

We had cheese fondue and were so bloated with food that we could hardly move any more. It tasted really good, but I love stove-cheese a bit more, because there are these crispy corners ^.^ But never mind, it was really peaceful and the night was great, snuggled up between Sward and Lin.

The greatest part that made us smirk was a related one: Lin and I went to do our first training and workout in years. Results: 1. I was feeling sooo great; finally did some sports again. I recognized that I missed the feeling you got after a workout when you are energized but completely wasted. 2. I was hurting like hell My muscles went sore all over the body, especially the inner parts of the thighs. I couldn't move one bit yesterday. In turn, this resulted in me lying on the sofa and Sward and Lin next to me, each of them took care of one of my legs, trying to massage the pain away. That's the way muscle pain should be treated

On a more general note, I am feeling better. I know that there are still many things I need to take care of, but I decided to just start at some point and work through them. My first 'little success' will be an old term paper that I have to hand in. It hasn't had a fixed deadline, that's why it still lies there unfinished. That means I will visit the library tomorrow and look for literature and resources. Another unfinished thing is waiting for me in the cellar: 8 kilo of red cabbage that need to be boiled down and bottled. Great start into a new year, isn't it?

I hope your start into 2012 was pleasant as well.
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  #95  
Old 01-04-2012, 02:52 AM
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There has been some discord over the last days caused by everyone of us being a bit unsatisfied with something in regard to our current living arrangement. The main factor that stirs some unrest is Sward. Everyone of us has an own pace and his is the most active and action-oriented one. He can't stand to stay idle and do nothing. Factors that add to his discomfort are his back (he can't do as he pleases), the unknown state of his working situation in some months and the state of our flat. And the last one is the main factor causing him to fell like time is running out.

As I mentioned, we planned to renovate quite a bit of our flat. Mainly the study because all three of us need to use it. Lin and I are sitting at my old desk at the moment with our PCs and Sward is using his via the TV screen in the living room. Because of a certain lack of space we had to put his PC in a small corner behind the couch, not a nice place to sit, especially with his back pain. Therefore the solution with the TV screen, he can lie on the couch surfing the net or playing some games. Downside of this was a slight feeling of being excluded, because Lin and I are sitting here together most of the time. As I said the apartment is really small, the door is never closed and we are only some steps apart, but I know what he is talking about. Getting him into the study was one of the main reasons to renovate the room.

But, even though we asked if it was OK for him if this stays like this for a while and he said 'yes, of course, no problem', he was building up some resentment. This exploded two days ago when he and Lin went to look for a desk for Lin's room and came a across as possible solution for the desk for our study (we design a three person desk where everyone can sit together, but it seemed to be too expensive). They came home to tell me about their idea. They wanted to use a long plank, put in on the wall and arrange all three PCs next to each other. Like chicken on their roost. I was totally against it and threw out the idea. Without knowing how much they invested into it. They calculated how much they would need from which material, where the cable funnel needed to be, what to do with all my stuff for university (along with the planned desk we designed some bookshelves as well) and spend half a day looking for those stuff. And I didn't give any credit for their effort.

That's why both of them were pretty pissed when I just said no, I don't want this to be build like that, I don't feel comfortable like this. That was the point when I had my first double quarrel. Both weren't please with my reaction. Lin was the first to come around and understood why I was so against it. Sward exploded during our argument, mainly because of the reason I mentioned above and secondly because of some old patterns between us that can annoy him. Those patterns are connected to my strong positioning if I have a certain opinion or view. I tend to overrule and not accept the opinion of other people if I feel like mine is a valid one. It is hard to convince me otherwise and he normally isn't as persistent as I am when we discuss the topic at hand.

The main reason for me not wanting to sit there with each of them next to me was my dislike of having just Lin next to me at the moment. I don't like it. I need my space and need to feel like I have some privacy. It can be nice to sit next to each other from time to time but I want my PC and time at it for myself alone. Most of my free time at home is spent in front of the PC. I work with it of course, but if I have some time on my hands, I surf, visit my regular sides/forums, play and look for stuff. I hardly watch TV, I grew up with the PC being my greatest hobby for home activities. And now there is someone sitting next to me, constantly checking in with what I am doing. It's like reading a book while someone is looking over your shoulder. I can't take a break like that and get away from it all.

Sward and I got into a real fight over this. He was being a bit dramatic, accusing us of excluding him, feeling like 'being put into a dark hole on the far end of the room', feeling hurt because Lin was able to do something he would have loved to do since I got this huge desk some years ago (sitting next to me) and me having secrets because I didn't want any of them sitting there. When he got too emotional and therefore started to be irrational, I left the room and we tried to calm down. It took us some time but we settled the matter and the misunderstandings within the next two hours and made up.

But it was still around, because there hasn't been any solution what to do with study. Therefore we worked on our old project and calculated what we would need to build our desk (where each will sit on a different side). When everything was finally done, measurements, material, positioning, etc. Sward and Lin got into a fight. Their first one. And the strange thing was, that I was sitting on the side and all I could think of was: Finally! Is it strange to take this for a positive sign? The argument was mainly about Lin criticizing our constant planning and planning and planning without getting things started and Sward being upset of this accusation because he would have started weeks ago to do as we planned, but felt thwarted by Lin and me. (My part in this was that I was constantly nagging about the money, what else ) But well, be that as it may, I was really glad to see that they are able to criticize each other in an open confrontation now. And that they drew their battle lines but no hardened fronts occurred. (Lin had cut his finger and was trying to fix this, Sward immediately got up and helped him, only minutes after the quarrel. They distinguished between one matter and the other, all I could do was smile contentedly.)

We will see what happens next in regard to the desk-problem. But I think everything is more than OK at the moment, even though it is strange to be happy about an occurrence like the argument we have got
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  #96  
Old 01-04-2012, 03:40 AM
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I just said no, I don't want this to be build like that, I don't feel comfortable like this. That was the point when I had my first double quarrel. Both weren't please with my reaction.
You sound alot like me, serious ALPHA .

It took me awhile to figure out how not to just dismiss others suggestions or plans, just because it didn't fit in with the plans in my head. Now I try a different tactic that seems to work better for everyone. I start with "That's really cool. It's different from what I had in my head, let me think about it a little so I can get everything else to work around it." Then after a little while, I can come back with, "I really need my own space without feeling like people are reading over my shoulder... How can we adjust this to make that happen?" Then wait for them to come back with a solution. Giving up the seeming "control" of fixing everything, was incredibly hard, but made my life with my husband a lot better and took a lot of stress off of me.

I'm also one to do a lot of planning and never have the time or MONEY to initiate the project. Glad you guys were able to work things out.
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  #97  
Old 01-04-2012, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by SNeacail View Post
You sound alot like me, serious ALPHA .
Guilty on all counts there

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Originally Posted by SNeacail View Post
It took me awhile to figure out how not to just dismiss others suggestions or plans, just because it didn't fit in with the plans in my head. Now I try a different tactic that seems to work better for everyone. I start with "That's really cool. It's different from what I had in my head, let me think about it a little so I can get everything else to work around it." Then after a little while, I can come back with, "I really need my own space without feeling like people are reading over my shoulder... How can we adjust this to make that happen?" Then wait for them to come back with a solution. Giving up the seeming "control" of fixing everything, was incredibly hard, but made my life with my husband a lot better and took a lot of stress off of me.
I know ... I know, I know, I know It's so hard. Honestly, I know how it should work, but every time something like this happens I just can't see what I am doing. I get when someone points out that this and that was a bit rude, dominant, harsh, whatever you want to call it, but no chance to see this in the moment I open my mouth. Because I am just stating my point of view as I feel the others just did. Why do they have to be so sensitive Just joking, I get where and what the problem is.
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  #98  
Old 01-04-2012, 04:04 AM
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I know ... I know, I know, I know It's so hard. Honestly, I know how it should work, but every time something like this happens I just can't see what I am doing. I get when someone points out that this and that was a bit rude, dominant, harsh, whatever you want to call it, but no chance to see this in the moment I open my mouth. Because I am just stating my point of view as I feel the others just did. Why do they have to be so sensitive Just joking, I get where and what the problem is.
You have a HUGE head start on me, it took me about 18 years of marriage to even figure out the problem, much less how to change it.
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  #99  
Old 01-08-2012, 03:49 PM
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Default Alone time

Ok, this time I am having some thoughts on alone time circling in my head. The topic arose some weeks ago. Lin and I were cuddling on the sofa, suddenly he whispered in my ear: “I want to be alone with you.” That gave me a pause. I have had those thoughts more than once already, but it always felt to awkward to tell Sward: “Hey, we will be in Lin's room for an hour or so. See you later.” I could never bring myself to discuss the topic, it felt too early for something like that. In a case vice versa (me telling Lin that I want to be alone with Sward) I couldn't even think about it at all, because I knew how hard it still was for him, to think about physical things between Sward and I. Sward is a lot more OK with the whole thing, but still with a grain of salt mixed into it.

After the first occurrence I talked with Lin and Sward about the obvious need for some private time aside from the time we got with each other every other night.

The first discussion was lead with Lin when he first approached me with the suggestion. He paused for a moment when I asked him how he would feel if the situation would have been reverse, meaning me asking for some time with Sward. He said that he would feel really uncomfortable. Because normally he doesn't have to think about the things Sward and I are doing when we are alone at night. The difference for him was 'maybe there was something happening at some point during that night' and ' we will have sex right now'. He felt forced to think about it and the certainty that it will happen the very moment he would be thinking about it, was hard to gauge.

When I spoke with Sward about the issue, he said that he himself really thought a lot about the problem already and would love to handle this with a bit more ease, or generally have some handling at all on this possibility, because he really missed our quality time we normally got with each other. We tended to just lie down and talk about the day and things that were on our mind whenever we felt like it. In the new situation (Lin moving in and everybody being extremely cautious to not get on the wrong side of somebody) we seldom felt comfortable expressing this need at first but managed to get some of our time already.

Since then everyone has gotten a lot more comfortable with each other and things eased up tremendously. Well, fast forward to New Year's Day: Same situation as before, Lin coming to me, telling me something unrelated, we start to cuddle and without talking about it, it was obvious that we would need some alone time. And I plucked up the courage to talk to Sward. It still felt awkward and I had a hard time relaxing when I went to be with Lin. But it was the first step into an important improvement for our everyday life.

The next time this happened was today. Lin and I got our six-months-anniversary today and stayed up late to talk and took our time to recall all that has happened during the last year. It was a great and cosy night. I would have spend it with Sward, but he was really worn out from the renovation of the study and fell asleep on the couch earlier that evening. Lin and I didn't plan to stay up late and when I recognized that it was already 2 am I suggested to spend the night with Lin again, to spend a whole one with Sward today. We went to bed when Sward got up around 4am. When I woke up and went to see how Sward was doing in the living room around noon, he felt much better (was having a headache) and send me back to Lin after I came out of the shower 'to wake him up as gentle as I could'. I still felt this little awkwardness about him knowing/intending that Lin and I would be intimate again, but it felt much more natural.

When Lin and I were finally up and prepared our late breakfast, Lin came to me to tell me that Sward congratulated him on the six months and told him that his probation period was over as well. (Lin moved in on the 24th of September) Right now they are lying on the floor in the study and plan the best way to manage all the wires of our three PCs, because we are good to re-furnish our renovated study already. It looks so great. We decided to get some new paint on the walls, build our three person desk and rearranged our old stuff quite a bit. I will tell you about the renovation and the things we discovered about each other the next time I got time to update again. Being me feels really good at the moment
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Last edited by Phy; 01-08-2012 at 03:52 PM.
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  #100  
Old 01-12-2012, 06:23 PM
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Just for the record, this may be of interest for my blog as well. Sward and Lin's view on the question: "What were your initial thoughts on the mono/poly problematic at the start of things?" Here is how they answered that (a little insight in how some monos process the poly issue):

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My two men are mono, but aren't able to answer you directly. Language boundaries and such. I will translate the discussion that ensued when I asked them your question
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Lin: Poly wasn't the matter for me. Phy could have been promiscuous, or could have called it whatever you can think of, it was the same for me. In the beginning, when we discussed the topic (I was still at home, separated from them), I wasn't envious that she could love more than one, I was envious that Sward was able to get what I wanted to have. When we processed to a more practical handling and I got to know Sward better, we met and talked, the envy vanished in that regard and a new issue arose: They knew each other so much longer and every time they talked about 'Ah, do you remember this or that, wasn't it fun?' envy hit home again.

Regarding the sex-matter: Yes, of course it isn't a pleasant feeling at first, but it depends tremendously on the other partner. On which level of friendship you are with him. Do you hate him? Do you envy him? Do you accept him/ still feeling uncomfortable? At that stage it depends on what type of guy you are. If you are like

(Sward skipping in) having no problems with your wife being intimate with another man, in a certain way even like to think about that.

(Lin again): Yeah, right, you are strange *pokes him* Or one proceeds as I did: You accept that there is another one, doing different things with your spouse that she likes, having been together long enough to know everything about her and such; But I am mostly pretending to just have a mono relationship with her. I don't think about Sward, I am satisfied with what I have with her and I normally don't think about her husband at all. It's just OK. I can't say that I still have problems with them being intimate most of the time.

But the most important point for me is: How does my partner behave? The poly person of the relationship just has to get across that she is able to distinguish between the other persons who are in a relationship with her. Phy did that right from the start, tried to explain to us that we are so different, giving her different things, evoking different feelings and such. This assurance isn't necessary all the time, but it has to come across as true and secure, because the real understanding how 'this poly mind' works will never be there for a mono person. It helped me when she pointed out in what parts her husband and I were different, taking note of special personal traits and quirks, expressing that she liked this particularities about me and so on.

You don't have to see the other person as a friend in all cases, but you have to be able to accept him in her life. Comprehending that she loves another person like she loves you *jokingly* like she preaches: one level for all, no one is more important to me, no hierarchy, one level for all .... *serious again* and the most important point: She has to get across that you are something special, giving her something that the other isn't able to give her. That's how it works for me. And talk! Communicate, communicate communicate. Lot's of communication helps. *smiles*

Me to Sward: Anything to add? Initial thoughts?

Sward: Well, my situation has been different. I have been the one who has been in a long relationship with her, I had to share suddenly. It took a lot of trust in regard to her. I had to trust her that the love was strong enough that she wouldn't leave me, that this wasn't a scam, that this was truly what she felt. At first, I lost some of that trust, because it was so new. But when I talked to Lin, I regained that trust, when we build this friendship, it helped to deal with this situation because we got along with each other.

I liked talking about Phy with him, exchanging experiences and ...

(Lin skipping in)Yep, profiting from experience of the person who has been in the relationship longer, knowing all her spleens and quirks *laughs*

Sward: Yeah, right *grins back at him* But talking about problems as well.

In regard to physical intimacy: I am a bit different, I like thinking about stuff that they may do with each other, therefore I don't have that many problems with that side of things. Emotional intimacy was my problem when things got started. What would have problematic for me, would have been to maintain different households. It is important for me to be able to see them, experience them together, share chores, helping each other …

(Lin skipping in) But it would have been problematic if we would have been more like alpha males. This works because we are both like we are, *glancing at me* we have our alpha right there ….

Sward: Well, I even clean your room from time to time when I got the mopping water ready and am at it.
Lin: Right, that's what I mean, we are homemakers.

Sward: And finally: Communication is the key
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