The Sexual element

[Magdlyn]

Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG

I'd have a hard time buying into that. Sounds like it would be based on very localized personal experiences. I would think social acceptance would be the main reason for more men to be openly bisexual and that would greatly impact the stats.

ITA. Thank the goddess many are letting go of the social stigma associated with being a gay (bi) male.

I'd like to add my input. I am a highly sexual female. I ID as queer and tho i appear femme in many ways, I do have "male" qualities. I am assertive, open, energetic and often dress in men's tshirts, jeans and chucks. I never wear high heels. But I do get a kick out of dressing up boho/girly as well.

But, my libido! OMG. Once peri-menopause got underway 10 yrs ago, and my kids were all finally sleeping thru the night, I became MUCH more interested in sex, and went from multi-orgasmic (like 3 or 4 Os) to being able cum almost unlimitedly for an hour or much more.

I've been with my current primary partner for only 10 mos. I still feel NRE for her, but hers seems to have faded somewhat (altho she denies this, and it could be related to job loss depression). One of the things I miss about the earlier months was when I'd walk thru the door after not seeing her for a couple days, and we'd imm kiss and run to bed.

In speaking of men and women, I'd like to add my partner is a MtoF transgendered woman. So. The gender binary doesnt really relate to us, we both share aspects of both genders. I'm a switch, I can top or bottom...

[redpepper]

I would also like to see some stats please....

I think humans are humans and that it has just become more socially acceptable to be into both men and women.... end of story. It's a great time to be fucking!!!

Even 15 years ago when I came out as a lesbian I was shunned and ostracized. It's hard to believe now as things have become far more fluid and open....

Yup, we are so lucky now...

As a highly sexual woman I am damn glad to be living in North America and in this time in history. Bring on the fucking!!!!

[bookworm]

Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG

I'd have a hard time buying into that. Sounds like it would be based on very localized personal experiences. I would think social acceptance would be the main reason for more men to be openly bisexual and that would greatly impact the stats.

I tend to agree with this. My bf is bi and its certainly not bc we don't have enough sex. He is primarily sexual with women, but he still enjoys being with a guy occasionally. And its very sensual when he is with a guy, its not just quick sex and thats it.

[GroundedSpirit]

Ceoli,
Being members of a variety "meeting" sites - both conventional and alternative lifestyle areas as well as spending time on those and other live chat networks we can only absolutely assure you the surge is real. Currently I bet we are approached between 50 - 100 times a week by bisexual or curious men that would like involvement with an open minded couple.
Being the philosophical and research minded people we are, we, whenever possible, take the time to have real in-depth conversations with as many of these people as time permits.
The explanations and reasoning form a VERY obvious pattern.

We wonder why YOU are questioning this so intensely ?
Is it that shocking ? Does it hold some deeper meaning for you ?

Our only intent in broaching this topic was to try to raise the awareness level, particularly, in the female population, of the true repercussions of their attitudes & actions. To maybe foster a little self analysis by asking the question - "is this the society I would intentionally choose to foster & live in?"

Is this gap to large to bridge ? Do we end up with a world where M/F sex (or any of the other various options MMF etc) exists solely for reproductive purposes ? What do we lose by not stretching ourselves a little to form those bonds and understand each other ?

Wish we could see more activity on this topic............

[Ceoli]

Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit

Being members of a variety "meeting" sites - both conventional and alternative lifestyle areas as well as spending time on those and other live chat networks we can only absolutely assure you the surge is real. Currently I bet we are approached between 50 - 100 times a week by bisexual or curious men that would like involvement with an open minded couple.
Being the philosophical and research minded people we are, we, whenever possible, take the time to have real in-depth conversations with as many of these people as time permits.
The explanations and reasoning form a VERY obvious pattern.

Your pattern is still biased by a selective population of people. What you're practicing is something called confirmation bias. Instead of using a statistically balanced sample, you're finding men from meeting sites which already skews your sample. Then when you find men that are interested in meeting couples, you have further skewed your sample. Now it may be that more bisexual men who are bisexual for the reasons you state have better access, but that gives no information about the population as a whole.

To put it another way: I like apple pie. I join a site that is about apple pie and I'm noticing more and more people are joining said apple pie site. Wow! That must mean there must be a surge of apple pie likers in the world, huh?

No, it means more people are joining an apple pie website. There is no other information one can really glean from that because there are far too many factors that are unaccounted for. This is why anecdotal evidence *isn't* used to illustrate statistical trends.

Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit

We wonder why YOU are questioning this so intensely ?
Is it that shocking ? Does it hold some deeper meaning for you ?

Are these assumptions you're making? I am questioning it specifically because social science is something I'm very interested in as well as gender studies and queer issues, particularly those issues around bisexual identity (I identify as bisexual). I see severe cracks in the reasoning upon which you're building this entire question. I also question it because I'm pretty sure most of the men of the bisexual community would be rather insulted by the assertions you're making. And when I see assumptions based on very little evidence that seem to promote destructive stereotypes (i.e. more and more bisexual men are bi because they must be sexually frustrated) you can bet I'm going to want some pretty clear conclusive evidence of it. You haven't been able to provide that.

Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit

Our only intent in broaching this topic was to try to raise the awareness level, particularly, in the female population, of the true repercussions of their attitudes & actions. To maybe foster a little self analysis by asking the question - "is this the society I would intentionally choose to foster & live in?"

Is this gap to large to bridge ? Do we end up with a world where M/F sex (or any of the other various options MMF etc) exists solely for reproductive purposes ? What do we lose by not stretching ourselves a little to form those bonds and understand each other ?

I think you'll find that there are far more aware people than you're assuming. You'll also find that there are a heck of a lot of people of all genders already doing such analysis. However, it seems that if that analysis doesn't fit into how you think it should look, then there's no place for it in your conversation. If you are indeed philosophical and research minded, I would suggest that before you re-invent the wheel here, you educate yourselves with some reading on gender studies, feminism and queer theory where these are not new questions or conversations.

[GroundedSpirit]

Ok Ceoli,
This rant is starting to be a disservice to the readers. We're not going to get any other feedback if it continues so.........
We'll give you your points on scientific validity (never the intention anyway) but ding you points on your "confirmation bias" theory. Totally familiar with that and definitely not the case.
But again, Nuff said. Be happy to continue the debate/clarification in some other way, but feel it's unfair to the readers to continue it here. We believe our email is public here (?) so feel free if it really means that much to you.
In the meantime - lets hear it from others ...............

How many of you ladies have had serious, heartfelt discussions with your mono minded friends and what - if anything- would it have taken to get them to really sit down and analyze their options and choices ?

[Ceoli]

::shrug:: If looking for clarity of reasoning and factual support is doing a disservice to the readers, then so be it.

[redsirenn]

Its interesting... One of my most sexually positive friends is really not receptive to the idea of polyamory. When I bring it up to her she seems to get defensive and simply says that it won't work. Me and O will break up. End of story.
Others who are not as sexually positive are more supportive and analyze the situation more objectively. I feel there must have been some sort of trigger in my other friend to make her react this way. However, most of my close friends would "Never" even consider exploring this lifestyle. One, who is in a long term relationship said she is actually a bit jealous of me! She wishes she could do the same - or at least talk about it.

For myself - My libido has never been higher. I have gotten over the "wrong vs right" thing about sex, and I stay safe. I have a new appreciation for my body, and the male body. I am probably one of the few women who think penises are beautiful. I admire them, which I know is out of the box. Many people say this about women's bodies, but I think men are works of art too - and not just the muscular ones.

I think I just decided "fuck it" (ha pun intended) and embraced my sexuality post divorce, realizing that it is healthy, and that all that matters is that I and others are safe within my actions, both emotionally and physically.

[Fidelia]

I agree with Ceoli and RedPepper. I'd like to see some statistics, too. Clarity of reasoning and factual support would be very helpful in furthering this discussion.

Also, characterizing the discussion of your reasoning and the request for factual support as a "rant" isn't conducive to encouraging others to join the discussion.

Finally, perhaps you might want to spend a little more time reading existing posts here on this forum before you assume the ladies here are generally operating under the enculturation of repression so prevalent in Western society. If the common social motivators worked on us polyfolk, we would all be traditional monogamists; clearly, we are not. Because love and respect for all parties, including oneself, demonstrated through honesty, trust, compassion, and open communication lie at the heart of polyamory, I've found that many or most of the polyfolk here have either done the work to discover their own genuine needs and desires (including their sexuality) or are in the process of doing so. Thus, many observations which may apply to society in general do not apply to polyamorists. If I were to make a generalization about polyfolk, I would say that, in general, we have either shaken off the shackles of repression, are picking the locks now, or at least rattling the chains.

[AutumnalTone]

Originally Posted by Ceoli

General consensus from where? What evidence are you basing this conclusion on?

The problem I have with it is that men who are involved in institutional homosexual relations or those getting sex "on the down low" with other men because they don't have willing female partners don't identify as bisexual--they identify as straight. That the only sexual outlet they had was homosexual doesn't change their basic orientation, and once they have female partners available they no longer engage in homosexual activity.

So, there'd have to be some seriously large studies performed that support the notion that men are identifying as bi simply because they don't have female partners available before I'd accept that premise as true. I'll wager the reason more men are identifying as bi has to do with increased acceptance of bisexuality.