'don't ask don't tell'?

[Minxxa]

Originally Posted by rory

I totally agree with this. I see nothing wrong with trusting a person who seems trustworthy, it is not your responsibility to check.

I agree. However, to ME that requires some time to get to know somebody first. I don't think there is any way to know in the beginning if somebody is trustworthy, or just a good liar. Or even a bad liar-- that can take more than an evening with drinks to figure out!

Originally Posted by rory

I would never do DADT in my relationships, I'm too much of a fan of openness. I can imagine some kind of a relationship with a person who has that arrangement with their partner. Though maybe I would be careful with how involved I become, and I would back off if I started to feel like it's too hurtful to be a secret.

Ditto. I don't do DADT, and I've been tempted a couple of times. But whether or not the people think it works for THEM, it makes ME feel slimy and gross and I would never be able to look at the person's partner without feeling like a slimeball liar cheat.

For me, it has little or nothing to do with the couple and their agreement and everything to do with how my actions affect my perceptions of myself. I need to act in a way I can live with and sleep well at night, and being less than honest is not on that list. My integrity is important to my general self-esteem, and no sex is worth compromising that.

[MindfulAgony]

DADT are difficult exactly because intimacy is so firmly founded on trust, sharing and openness. When parts are closed off because of a DADT agreement, it makes having the depth of intimacy and connection necessary for deep relationships more challenging (not impossible).

There are enough people walking around with limited capacities for trust, sharing and openness who - despite this - manage to have long standing relationships, to make me believe that it is not impossible but simply increasesthe challenge of getting to that place of genuine connection.

My experience with DADT is typical (perhaps stereotypical)... the woman was actually cheating and when the shit hit the fan, it was impossible not to get shit on my face, shoes and pants. As a result, I approach DADT with extreme caution and have turned down the subsequent opportunities for such a connection.

I haven't ruled it out. I just don't see it as very likely and wouldn't be my preference.

[nycindie]

Originally Posted by tigrrrlily

I got into a hot fling with someone who had an honest 'don't ask don't tell' only-when -you're-out-of-town thing with his partner. I mean honest in that its an explicit agreement between them.

Anyone else had experience with this? Like, how to avoid having the practical arrangemens feel like cheating...

We live in different countries. He lives with his partner but both travel frequently. He might be back and I might still be available then or I might not, same I guess for him. The main practical thing during the time we were together was keeping separate social circles who know them as a couple from me, which wasn't very difficult although it made him cautious to meet my friends. Which made me feel a leeetle like sneaking, which made me feel uncomfortable, which led me to post here looking for others' experience...

So, this is someone who lives in another country, travels frequently, and there's the potential for very hot times if you have the opportunity to hook up again, which may or may not happen anytime soon. It's not just sex, you have a good rapport and really like this guy, and his story about DADT checks out well enough for you to trust him.

While in my own life I may not want to get into DADT situations, I don't really see anything wrong with this. It might not work well for a relationship with someone who lives near you and that is more frequent and ongoing, but the fact is that there is a very unpredictable quality here. I get the sense that you won't really know when you can see him again unless and until he lets you know he's got a trip coming up. It sounds like when he is in your country, he stays for a bit, because you mentioned socializing.

Question: doesn't the fact that you live in two different countries rather negate the possibility that you will run into anyone he knows when he is with you?

I think you seem to be handling it well, but you did mention that you don't want to feel like you're cheating or sneaking because that made you uncomfortable. I think that perhaps the only way to handle that is to deliberately change your perspective on the whole thing. By that I mean, you may need to accept that this is not a typical relationship where you can just invite him into your social circle and act like another boyfriend, and know that if it does continue, that is the parameters within which you must operate.

Now, you can have some fun with this. Instead of viewing this aspect as a deficit, make it a plus. You can consider your times with him as an escape, an oasis, a time to get away, a vacation from your normal everyday life. Or (and?) you can totally play up the secret mistress idea and use it as a kinky role to play. Don't place ordinary expectations on it, nor try to make your times with him fit too much into your daily life. This perspective could ease that sense of feeling that his DADT is hampering a "normal" relationship. Make it a delicious, hedonistic adventure. I think it could be a lot of fun.

[SchrodingersCat]

For me what it comes down to is being able to live my life openly and freely. Being someone's dirty little secret just doesn't appeal to me. I find it hard to imagine that anyone in a DADT is going to feel comfortable strolling through the mall holding hands, and that's something I enjoy doing with my partners. If I was walking around with a partner, and they spot a friend or coworker and suddenly drop my arm and put 3 feet between us just to avoid suspicion, I would feel like they see me as cheap and disposable. I am not disposable and I choose not to be with anyone who sees me that way.

The other reality is that when you're dating a DADT, you get zero rights in the relationship. The primary gets first dibs on everything, and you get the leftover scraps. Thanks but no thanks.

I honestly don't care about whose responsibility it is to make sure no one's cheating. It's about my own needs within a relationship, one of which is a need to feel valued and cherished. If someone can't give me that, then I don't need to waste my time with them.

[neegoola]

Originally Posted by MindfulAgony

There are enough people walking around with limited capacities for trust, sharing and openness

ya, i think this depends so much on where one lives: there are places, for instance far from the city in italy, where the proportion is inverse and negative to our Natural state; very very few, let's say almost anyone is "ready" to walk with enlarged capacities for trust, sharing and new menthal form. one of the reason is the big compromise we did as the Church has been so present phisically on our territory (much more than in spain She has been, for instance).

not long time ago i saw i was throwing on a man i met the whole responsability of the intire society sourrounding us, so we met; ok, i'll compromise a little bit (of time) and soon we'll see; i give him/her "time";
or i'll enjoy NO relation at all.
the other option would be to fly to the States
and/or tranforming my karma.

p.s. ShrodingersCat: i agree being "the second" involves gettings scraps, but.. i don't feel bad in meeting a lover once a week or even less than. i'm not projecting living together with ONE partner anymore. in this my celybacy and virginity are stated.

[redpepper]

As this thread is entitled "don't ask don't tell" I thought I would mention another angle here. That of the couple who have the DADT... It has been my experience that a DADT policy can really rot a relationships stability in terms of trust, connection and closeness. It does depend on the original stability of a relationship however and how long it took to build trust in a situation such as being open.

From what I have seen and know about my own relationships it seems to work AFTER a time of complete open and honest communication... radical honesty shall we say. After a time of this there begins to emerge a pattern, or at least this is what I have noticed, where by some trust can be built. A pattern that only the people in the relationship would recognize about their partner and trust in.

There is also that things become normalized over time also. There is nothing like the unusual, and what would be considered freaky or unconventional to others, becoming the norm. When that time is reached in a relationship dynamic I don't know if DADT is a valid term really... its just getting about the business of life. I don't talk about every detail of my life to my partners and I don't talk about every detail of my life with them to anyone either.

[MonoVCPHG]

Originally Posted by MindfulAgony

My experience with DADT is typical (perhaps stereotypical)... the woman was actually cheating and when the shit hit the fan, it was impossible not to get shit on my face, shoes and pants. .

haha!! This is the best laugh I've had on here in a long time...thanks!

[MonoVCPHG]

While I don't see DADT as a method to create greater connection in a primary relationship I also don't discount it as a coping method either. To me it is like declaring an "open relationship" that does not include communication about some things that happen. I think if people are at a stalemate in trying to get needs met then maybe it is the only option.

But what happens when one partner wants a DADT to open up the relationship and the other wants more disclosure and communication? What compromises are made then?

[MindfulAgony]

Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG

haha!! This is the best laugh I've had on here in a long time...thanks!

You are welcome.

[neegoola]

Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG

I think if people are at a stalemate

But what happens when one partner wants a DADT to open up the relationship and the other wants more disclosure and communication? What compromises are made then?

stalemate within the "official" relationship?
getting a new relation is not always an escape from stalemate and boredom..

as i see it, a mono (above all amongst women) most of times is not making any compromise, she/he leaves even if the two have children together (in that case she throws him "out"); i'm talking about italy, ah..

Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG

haha!! This is the best laugh I've had on here in a long time...thanks!

i'm very Heinleining* in this: normally i don't laugh about others' sadness as it normally happens with "funny" stories unless that sadness finds reflection in my self as a mirror

* it tooks months to valentine micheal smith to learn why humans laugh at jokes (see "stranger in a strange land" strictly connected to the CAW) and i treasure this "info"