Reasonable Request or Coercion?

[KeyLimePie]

Thank you, this has been a lot of good points raised. I will look for that book.

I was feeling very very awful when I declared that I was never having sex with anyone again. Yes, it was a melodramatic statement in a moment of woe. He decided to take it as the literal truth and make it all about him and not try to help me deal with the crappy way I felt, kind of do still feel, about myself.

And I was still sick when he tried to kiss me; I also have issues with his smoking (freshly smoky lips, plus being ill, just does not work for me).

[AnnabelMore]

Originally Posted by KeyLimePie

My husband ... has decided that I should not see the boyfriend again for any purposes until I'm able to be sexual with him again.

Originally Posted by Goimir

I wouldn't ever suggest that KLP can't see someone else she loves because she didn't meet some arbitrary obligation.

So, which of these statements is true??

If time for the two of you away from the kids is a big problem, and the bf doesn't live too far away, maybe he could babysit every now and then to make sure you guys also get to have "dates"? Mutual support is part of the purpose of a tribe, right?

[AnnabelMore]

Also, counseling. If time/expense is a concern, just remind yourselves that divorce is way way way more time-consuming and costly.

[gypsygirl]

Hi!
Goimir's girlfriend here.

So, I don't know about his long-term habits as far as cuddling- we're still in the NRE stage. My recent trip up there was actually the real beginning of our "dating" relationship (it had been mostly casual sex before that).

The problem that I see Goimir having here (biased- likely!) is that the boyfriend (and his wife) were very hostile while KLP was sick, acting like they were going to catch it just by being in the same town. (It was not- I was perfectly healthy through a 4 day visit, and continue to be.) The fact that they treated her with such a lack of respect, and that now she is running to them has him somewhat jealous.

Also, as to the sexual part- Goimir seemed, this afternoon, to be under the impression that she was going back to the bf tonight expressly to have sex, which he found hurtful since she seems to be rejecting him at every turn.

Also, the "warn me beforehand, and then I can cuddle without trying to have sex" was something I suggested to him. I know he's a randy kind of guy, so I suggested he ask and establish boundaries before starting the cuddle. It might be a little clinical, but I felt it would help in the long run.

[nycindie]

Originally Posted by gypsygirl

... the "warn me beforehand, and then I can cuddle without trying to have sex" was something I suggested to him. I know he's a randy kind of guy, so I suggested he ask and establish boundaries before starting the cuddle. It might be a little clinical, but I felt it would help in the long run.

Yeah, I see that you want to be helpful. But I'm not sure how it would help. It does seem rather strange to me that a spouse wouldn't want physical affection unless it leads to coitus, or would need a warning that it will only be cuddling without coitus. I mean, what's the problem? Why would all touch require sex or an announcement that it won't? If they snuggle up and he gets a hard-on but she isn't in the mood, he can jerk off. Or let the hard-on subside. What's the big deal? I can see how this would leave her feeling like he is only interested in sex.

Also, if Goimir never kisses her unless he wants sex, and she was sick and had already told him she wasn't ready to fuck yet, of course she would see that as dismissing her feelings and only wanting what he wants. If her bf was someone she knew she could count on for physical affection without feeling like he was demanding sex (not saying Goimir demanded it but KLP may have felt that way), it makes sense that she went to be with him even if he and his wife seemed like two germophobes. She was feeling pressured and wanted some tenderness with someone she missed. And she may not have been offended by the bf's behavior at all, or not as much as you and Goimir were. All relationships have their own flavor.

I think what would be more helpful (rather than asking her to announce that only cuddling will happen) is for them to look at and have a conversation about what they both need in terms of physical intimacy and try to find a way to compromise. Express to each other the deeper feelings behind what they want and don't want, how they feel when they don't get what they want (nobody gets what they want all the time, after all), and how to deal with those feelings more lovingly and effectively.

[redpepper]

This seems like a case of people having expectations and assumptions. Not a great way to have a relationship with anyone. It tends to lead to disappointment and resentment. No one reads minds, being specific is really important as a result.

[polyq4]

Talk talk talk and more talk....there is too much here in the wind. Get everyone together and talk, make a rule beforehand that no one can yell. If anyone wants to yell they cam leave the room for a few minutes to calm down. I wish I was closer I would love to arbitrate for you guys cause I think everything would come out well after a good discussion.

[MindfulAgony]

Lots of really good points here. Love the wisdom.

I think I can only add in one area. For a long time while I was sexually active, I viewed sex as the primary way that I know I was loved. I grew very agitated and hurt in the cases where sex was not available for whatever reason.

It is true that touch is very important for me from a love language perspective. But, I didn't do a lot of hard work on why I had linked sex and love. Now that I have done so, I am much more relaxed about it. I can both express my love and see the expression of love in much wider set of behaviors.

I've found that my genuine horniness is a different beast that can be satiated through many means.

I no longer get that unrecognized fear of abandoment in the pit of my stomach when I haven't had sex with a partner recently.

I'm not saying that this is going on with you, Goimir. But, the stories of both you and your wife reminded me of myself.

[Tonberry]

Goimir, as someone who has been on the receiving end of a lot of attention when she wasn't feeling sexual, I'm going to try giving my input. It is meant to be from her point of view, which doesn't mean I'm taking her side but merely trying to explain to you how I think she might feel.

KLP, feel free to correct me if your situation is completely different.

Anyway, at the time, I was feeling a lot of pressure when I really couldn't have sex, and as a result whenever I was getting snuggly I would feel pressure again. Constantly wondering if he wanted sex. Stressed out if he asked me for a clear answer because I didn't want to say "yes, we will have sex" only to then realise I couldn't for whatever reason and have him say I promised. I felt like it was similar to saying days in advance that I would definitely have sex at a specific time, regardless of whether I felt like it when the time arrived. Except the timeline was much shorter, in that I would have been talking about the next half hour.
Basically, if he had expectations it killed it for me. So I found it easier to tell him not to expect it at all, so that at least the pressure was off my shoulders.

When I started getting more affectionate, he would get upset or accuse me of teasing him or ask me if we were going to have sex. These kinds of things didn't work for me at all. I would suddenly completely stop wanting it and all the work had to be done and built up again. I would much rather have had the sex just happen, on my own initiative, without it being expected by either of us, because I felt confident and trusting enough at the specific time the sex happened.

For whatever reason, she feels better about her boyfriend right now, or that's how you seem to feel. Maybe she feels like there are less expectations with him. Maybe it's because you kissed her when she was sick and her mind just interpreted it as an attack subconsciously, even though it wasn't your intention at all. If that's the case, you need to rebuild trust.

I realise the lack of sex must be a pain for you. But the more you stress that, the more pressure she'll feel. If you can have other outlets it feels like me the priority here would be working on your relationship. You need to rebuild that complicity you most likely used to have, so that your advances don't feel intrusive and her rejections don't feel hurtful.

If your frustration has led you to talk about sex more and more, it might make her feel like you only care about the sex, and feel her less valued, and want you more. I think if you can find a way to let her understand that it's not the case, and that you care about her first and foremost, and you just wish things could go back to how they were, then she would feel better about the whole thing.
Basically, you might have to court her again from the start. Whatever caused that split between the two of you, it needs to be fixed. And until it's fixed, even if she reaches 100% ability to have sex again, she might not feel up to having it with you.

I think her seeing her boyfriend will help her personally, and might help the two of you. I know time with my boyfriend would make me much more relaxed and likely to have sex with my husband when I was going through a rough time too. It also shows her that you care about her as a person and you want her to be happy.

KLP, your husband feels left out, it seems to me. I think you could try and plan some dates. Have them be out if you want, this should relax as it's pretty unlikely they'll turn out sexual. Or rent a movie to watch together on the couch, or play cards or a board game. Or take a walk. Just spending time together would probably be best for the two of you, and you can be intimate that way without it being sexual.

[Vixtoria]

I know this is my first time posting and this isn't really addressing the major needs, (which yes are totally communication), however something DH and I thought when we read this might be helpful. DH and I have done the five love languages and for me physical touch is a big one! I lamented once that even in make out sessions, it ended up becoming sex. Not always a bad thing but it made me reticent to just get cuddle time. I discussed this with DH and we worked on it. Yes, for awhile it meant me saying, "I don't want sex, just you." It also meant that sometimes he had to 'take care of things' himself afterwards. We did find though, that there were even times I didn't want sex but just make outs and cuddling and then ended up getting to the point where I wanted sex too.

In the end, it's still about communication. I understand it's probably hard, you aren't feeling well, there's stress, kids, family. Add to that the not wanting to say something negative about a partner or partner's partner and you are keeping a lot in! We just went through a really really stressful period. (hopefully we are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel now) What we found important was to remind each other that we loved each other and to talk, and to take time to just be. No freaking out, no stress, just sit, watch a movie, cook together, and reconnect. We could feel the stress just pushing a wedge between us and while it would have been easy to let it and to enjoy the less stressful relationship with my OSO, I knew I needed to reconnect with DH.