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  #51  
Old 11-28-2011, 10:13 PM
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Hey, Mags, you are not the only person here who responded with saying something about this being a D/s situation, but I admit I missed this point.

OP, other than the mention of your gf being a sub, I didn't "get" that there was any more to this dynamic than that could just be a preference of hers. It would make sense if you are the Domme to both of them, as Mags described, because you do seem to be very much wanting control over both of them (even though I think you said your boundaries are not about controlling them), but I don't know enough about D/s to offer feedback on that. I did notice a bit of a... hmm, not sure how to word this... for lack of a better term, at first I thought it was a bit of condescension toward your husband that he was unable to control certain tendencies you saw in him and needs to be reigned in somehow, kept in line, disciplined. I guess Mags calling that "parental" makes more sense if you are all operating within a D/s dynamic, with you as the Domme.

If it is the case that this is a D/s thing (and I'm still not sure it is, or whether that is 24/7 or in the bedroom only), since you didn't come right out and say it, maybe that's why some responses (including mine) seemed overly critical or off the mark to you. But if it is, I find this rather confusing:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChloeJane View Post
My husband is boundary-less on his own. His sexual energy is potent as fuck and he loves women immensely. She is a sub, and adores having her boundaries pushed; it makes it a lot of fun to be her lover, as being creative enough to titillate her crazy intelligence takes planning and work, which can heighten the anticipation of us all seeing each other SO deliciously. Knowing that she is boundary-less, and my husband is boundary-less, we (my husband and I) talked a lot about what had gone "wrong" in previous forays into polyamory and co-created boundaries together.

... My husbands pushiness has the capacity to ruin it, and he needs to watch that desire to get what he wants over the collective happiness - especially when dealing with a highly sexual sub who's truly GGG. I don't want to become his "keeper" or control him, so he has to be extra emotionally responsible in a very salacious, tempting situation. In this version of the story, it's totally ADAM who would bite the muthf'in apple.
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Last edited by nycindie; 11-28-2011 at 10:23 PM.
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  #52  
Old 11-28-2011, 10:24 PM
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Magdlyn
I can be a sub through and through with a partner, but that doesn't mean that they will be topping me in anyway other than sexually, and I haven't experienced it outside of the bedroom. So I didn't automatically assume that sexually submissive means relationally submissive from what ChloeJane said.
If you're only a sub in a sexual context, you're technically a bottom. If someone is only a Dom in a sexual context, they are technically not Masters/Doms, or Mistresses/Dommes, but Tops.

Since CJ is calling the shots as far as not just the sex, but also the messaging allowed between her h and their gf, she is Domming outside the bedroom/dungeon context. Her h might not be her sub fulltime, he might be. He seems to be a bratty sub though, that's for sure! I think he needs a good flogging or other kind of punishment, besides scolding, myself. It sounds to me like they could use a good read, or support group, about the intricacies of D/s dynamics.

I am not a lifestyle D/s player, I'm merely a horny Switch, but my gf has had years of experience in lifestyle D/s and I am sure she'd agree to my assessment. At least with the info we have so far...
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  #53  
Old 11-29-2011, 05:12 AM
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Wow, I step away from the forum for a day and I am WAY behind in my correspondence!

There has been so much said about all of this, and I’ve been (for the most part very) happily responding to a lot of different angles, opinions and perceptions. I think that because of this, a simple issue has become REALLY complicated. This is cool, as I think that it’s allowed my husband and I to go extremely deep into our communication, has brought up a whole flurry of issues that we weren’t even anticipating talking about, and has resulted in extremely clear boundaries and understanding of where we are both coming from. It’s not that we didn’t have clear communication before we ventured into this new relationship, but WOW are we clear now.

Magdlyn:

“His tendency to break boundaries and do whatever he feels like despite the "rules," seems to be a source of your pride in him and at the same time, a source of worry, now, in an intense sexual relationship that is (unexpectedy) turning out to be an emotional one. (If you are experienced in poly, why should this have blindsided you so much?)”

I would never be blindsided by an emotional relationship being borne out of a physical one; in many ways we fostered both from the beginning by making this not just about sex, but also very much about romance, intimacy and great conversation. I would say that my husband’s past tendencies to boundary push worry me much more than they do please me/cause pride. I do like that he is his own man, but don’t mistake that respect/admiration for him breaking agreements that we have in place together.

“However, if he's been abused in the past, your Dominance might be triggering for him, and he's reacting according to an old script. If you are in control, it is up to you to do everything you can to prevent this.”

I am not in control of my husband, nor would I want to be. As much as I have a dominating personality/sexual style, so does he. Our agreements are collective, and take into consideration each person’s boundaries/limits/comfort zones. You are right about the abuse though; his ex wife was very controlling, and he has shared with me that this baggage caused him to “rebel” even though it was an agreement that HE had made with me. I understand, and forgive him fully for this.

“CJ said the gf is a "sub thru and thru," that she, CJ, is "driving the bus" in this, making her the "domme," and has compared her h to a "spoiled child with his hand in the cookie jar." She is also into both of them "spoiling" the gf, who is "boundary-less," as if she is a pet or child.”

Our girlfriend IS a sub through and through. Oddly though, that makes me want to protect her, and be really careful with her subby nature. My husband DOES act like a spoiled child sometimes (so do I though, don’t we all?) We DO love spoiling our lovely lady – she is designed to be spoiled, and works so damn hard during the week that it gives us great pleasure to treat her well, cater to her, show her wonderful a great time, engage in tons of fantasy and role playing, and treat her a bit like a beautiful pet. But these are all pretty non-BDSM, if that’s possible. Sure, there’s a bit o’ the kink, but it’s not the [/COLOR]centre. I’d say my husband and I are both pretty much tops, and she’s a sub. My husband loves putting me in a power role in sex with her for the kink factor of it, but I am not a domme by personal definition. Oh boy, I can see I’m setting myself up for some major analytical dismantling now with you bunch!! Le sigh.

Anneintherain:

This is very much a case of “regular old vanilla agreements” needing to be readdressed, as I don’t think that we all understood each other as well as we do now. I really feel like you get the simplicity of our situation, and that makes me want to buy you a latte and high five you.

AnnabelMore:

“One thing that I find a little confusing is that your husband is saying he's not interested in one-on-one sex with the gf. If not, then why did he choose (whether he was consciously "choosing" or just acting) that particular boundary to push multiple times? “

I believe I was responding to RedPepper’s suggestion that my husband/I might want some independent sexual experiences with S. We sat down and explored that (thank you RedPepper – was good to talk with him about that) and he said that no, it was not something that he was interested in. We’ve talked a lot about the boundary pushing that happened with sex initiating between the two of them, and it boiled down to a couple of factors: Miscommunication and Misplaced Intentions. We have talked all angles of this thing to death now, and if we have left a stone unturned and it comes up again, I will be shocked!

“But if he (and you for that matter) have an emotional, growing relationship with her, why *wouldn't* you want at least the potential for one-on-one sex?”

I think we set out to do something unique here – I haven’t seen another situation like ours on here as of yet. We truly decided to expand our relationship to a third – not to segment into individuals/coming together occasionally, but to create a three person relationship. There are a couple of kinks to work out, obviously, but for the most part, I can’t even begin to tell you how divine and fun it is. Sure, I am in charge of communication, but that’s largely because it’s uncomplicated that way – she and I set up dates, keep in touch, and share our thoughts with each other, we all three get together for dinner, a night at a trendy hotel, or she comes out to our suburban wonderland and escapes her city life for nights in the hot tub, cuddle puddles and movies, cooking dinner together, making a fire, hot action for hours on end. And it’s all three of us – I get to look at her, then my husband, then at her. We all really, really love this dynamic, and the working out of the kinks was inevitable. I think that it’s a natural inclination to pair off – it’s what we all do, and then we replicate it by pairing off again. For us, we’re not actively pursuing that pairing off (even though we’ve had some hiccups – oh please, oh please, let’s not go over those again, ever, ever, ever hahahahaha)

Maybe it’s an ideal, and maybe it’s not conventional, but I think we’re back on track and doing pretty awesome with it.

For that time when it’s just my husband and I, we fold her love back into our primary relationship, strengthening it, and fostering more of it by keeping in touch every day – txting, emailing, letter writing, packages in the mail. We never leave her lonely – this week she is missing us, and we weren’t due to see her until Saturday, so we’re driving out to the city to take her for dinner tomorrow night.

“I think this is why I see this particular agreement as fine for starting out, but as problematic if it should stay in place and try to co-exist with the goal of one or more serious love relationships.”

I don’t know what the future will hold for us, but I know that we’re pretty happy with how things are going now, and are open to see what is in store for us. I think as long as we all trust each other enough to be honest, communicate our deepest fears and desires, and remain respectful of each other, that only good things can come out of it. I think it's safe to say that all of us on this forum are more open to the possibilities in relationships than many folk in this world (not to segregate or make us better than, just a fact!)

I can say, however that this first big communication/boundary/weirdness test has proven to be a really good one. We’ll see what the future holds, and I’ll definitely dish as things change/come up!!

And YES GIRLFRIEND IN A CAGE IS A HOT IDEA! LOL!!! I am not going to bring that up, or else they’re just going to start “breaking rules” so that I’ll shove them in the dog crate (of which we have one that she would fit in, coincidentally, having just gone through puppy-dom with our Shibas a couple of years ago LOL) Maybe I have a whole crazy-freaky-BDSM part of me just screaming to get out. I think I might have spied her a couple of times in the past few years
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Last edited by ChloeJane; 11-29-2011 at 05:13 AM. Reason: Colour change on quote.
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  #54  
Old 11-29-2011, 07:22 AM
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Hey ChloeJane, this situation of yours is not unique... for the record. At the stage you are at you are right on schedule. If you were say a year in.... it would be unique. No biggy though, you are working hard, it is plain to see. Koodo's to you for that. Good luck
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Old 11-29-2011, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Hey ChloeJane, this situation of yours is not unique... for the record. At the stage you are at you are right on schedule. If you were say a year in.... it would be unique. No biggy though, you are working hard, it is plain to see. Koodo's to you for that. Good luck
I'm not sure whether I should follow your rather strange form of reassurance, or to go with more of a gut feeling of condescension right now, RedPepper. It seems that everyone thinks that they know what our relationship consists of, where our weaknesses/challenges lie and now, even how it will unfold with the exact order and type of problems we'll be facing. I offered that it might be unique because so many people were pushing for us to start splitting off and having independent relationships, like it was an inevitability. It's not necessarily an inevitability, and any assumption to the contrary is just that, at this point - an assumption.

I can appreciate that while everyone has, and will continue to have unique relationships with unique individuals, that there are members on this board who have seen enough variety to see some trends, or patterns out there. I would also however, like to point out that none of this makes anyone all knowing, or all seeing, and to imply as much will only create feelings of judgement and disempowerment on this board, or worse, dependence on other people's opinions, taking people away from their own truths.

As a newcomer to this board, I have to say it's been pretty intense; there has been a lot of projections, assumptions, interpretation and judgements on some challenges that came up in our relationship. That's cool with me; I don't mind a good debate, getting clearer in my life, or being challenged in general. Nor do I mind pointing out when people are overstepping, or being too intense. I think this might be a good moment to extend my encouragement to the more established members of this board who all have strong voices, that helping people get clear in their own minds/hearts is a lot more empowering than telling them how it is, or how it will be.

So, "maybe in a year it will be unique". Maybe it's already unique. With all due respect, it's honestly not really for you to say. Good luck to you & yours as well - it seems like an awesome match up, and that makes me happy for you.
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  #56  
Old 11-29-2011, 10:11 AM
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I can understand how you might find the welcome here pretty intense. I hope you can still find a peaceful space for yourself here. I for one would like to read how things develop. In the blogs section there is generally less commenting/advicing going on, so if it gets too heavy you might want to move there.

To the original issue you posted, I totally agree that your husband violated the agreements you had, and is completely responsible. I'm happy about all the communication there seems to be going on, and it seems like you got to the bottom of it.

It sounds like your boundaries you have work for this situation, since none of you have expressed a desire for more one-on-one time/sex. (And while some here have suggested that might be behind your husbands actions, I totally agree with you that if it is, he needs to communicate that to you.)

Since you say you would be open to different agreements later with your girlfriend or in some other kind of situation, I'll write a thought I had, even though it's not very relevant at the current situation.

From what I gather, you have reasons for your boundaries mostly in your husband's tendencies of having a poor judgement when he is in NRE. It seems that when he is in NRE, you can't really trust him to take your feelings into account very well. Am I understanding this right? By the way, I totally understand why you would have a hard time trusting his judgement given the choices he's made in your current situation.

It seems that your boundaries (no contact between them, no sex with girlfriend without all three of you there) are in place to avoid those issues. And I think that's fine for now: there is nothing wrong with enjoying what you have, and it seems to be enjoyable to you all as things are. However, if, at some point and with somebody, you decide to move forward, I'm wondering how can your husband "prove you wrong", i.e. show you that he can be trusted? With your current boundaries, if he sticks to them (he hasn't, but say from now on) the issue of poor judgement is avoided altogether. Not violating the boundaries you have shows you nothing, except that he is willing to respect your feelings. Which is obviously important. But I'm wondering if there would be some agreement, which gives him a little more responsibility. That way, if he keeps to that agreement, you see that he is working to respect your agreements, and you might begin to trust him more. Then again, if he doesn't, it may tell you that you really can't trust him. (I'm all for second chances, but I would also draw that conclusion if he violates the current boundaries again.)
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:12 PM
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It was meant to be reassuring although now that I re-read I see you have a sense of pride in your words. I can see why you would think I was condescending. Meh, I think I will just fuck off now. As I said, good luck.
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Last edited by redpepper; 11-29-2011 at 04:15 PM.
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