Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Poly Relationships Corner

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 11-28-2011, 02:14 PM
hyperskeptic's Avatar
hyperskeptic hyperskeptic is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Georgia
Posts: 401
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vanille View Post
We leave Holland this Saturday for England, where we will be staying with some of my family. I'll feel a lot "safer" I think when we get to England, as the opportunity to go out and date will be eliminated until we go home (a week after that)
Is it the closing off of the possibility of him dating that will make you feel safer, or being with other people who also care about you? Or is it both?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vanille View Post
He would really like me to meet her. I've been stubborn though. Part of me is scared that he only wants me to meet her, just so that I can be the one to explain our poly relationship. He said she backed off a bit when he said he was married, and he just doesn't know how to go further with her. He also has the added burden of having to be careful ethics wise, because this is another employee. But he also says that she still seems interested, just very hesitant. But I can't imagine sitting with her, being so shallow and petty (me) and hating every minute of a dinner.
It seems to me you're being awfully hard on yourself, basically dismissing yourself as shallow and petty. Even if it's true, give yourself a chance to outgrow that. Try something new and daring . . . like meeting someone your partner likes.

If you don't meet her, you're likely to make a lot of assumptions about how wonderful she must be, how much you pale in comparison, and so on. Your imagination will have free rein to cook up worst case scenarios.

If you meet her, you'll at least be able to get a better sense of what she's actually like as a person, and what, in particular, your partner might be drawn to.

I mean, if your partner finds her interesting, it may be that she's a genuinely interesting person, one it would be worthwhile for you to know on your own terms. If she's native-born Dutch, she might also give you some connection to the culture of the place you've been visiting.

Also, be aware of how your partner is feeling: if he's hesitant, confused and fearful, he needs your support, attention, and advice. It's a strange role to be in, I know, advising your partner on how to proceed with a possible new relationship, but it can have the paradoxical effect of strengthening your partnership.

(My wife and I have taken turns advising and consoling one another. I've been living through an ethically fraught, non-reciprocated crush for some time now; she's had one promising relationship go down in flames. As that relationship first developed, it helped me a lot that I already knew the guy in question, and could see why my wife was interested.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vanille View Post
I've thought it would be better to date independently, and invite to meet each other when the time is right. I don't like the idea of us appearing as one entity and not two separate people.
Well, yes, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't meet her, especially given the short time span involved. Maybe you could meet her separately, over coffee? Even if all three of you meet, you can establish your independence. Dinner might be a bit heavy. Maybe something more casual?

Sightseeing?

(That might be a good idea, actually, though it would probably be best not to ask her to show you the red light district . . .)
__________________

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" - Charles Darwin

"Mystical explanations are considered deep. The truth is that they are not even superficial." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-28-2011, 02:21 PM
vanille's Avatar
vanille vanille is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
Posts: 76
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by polyq4 View Post
He needs to devise if this is going to be a quick fling or more. If its just a quick fling (translation fu*k) that would not define my definition of poly.
We already know it would be a quick fling. She's from Denmark I believe. However, she told him she was interested in moving to Houston someday, a place we may be moving to as well in the future.

I understand that it's not really a poly definition (just sex), however it is actually a huge part of our poly development. Before we came to Europe, he put us on hold because he couldn't handle the jealousy issues of me being with another man. His idea was that maybe he could get past those issues if he did it himself and could better understand the situation first. (Meaning, I had to wait to develop any interests in men on my own until he had sex with a girl).

If I let him have sex with someone out here, it may be that push he was looking for. He has already retracted some of what he said before, saying that he understands better already without even having slept with anyone ... but I feel like if he doesn't try something out here, we may be in the same limbo we were in when we left.

We both love each other and have a solid foundation. How long should we wait before jumping in? Is living in this limbo actually getting us anywhere? Or would it be better to take some baby steps (let him go out on a date with this girl) and work the the emotions of a real (versus hypothetical) situation?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-28-2011, 02:28 PM
vanille's Avatar
vanille vanille is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
Posts: 76
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperskeptic View Post
Is it the closing off of the possibility of him dating that will make you feel safer, or being with other people who also care about you? Or is it both?
Out of sight, out of mind. It would be nice to not have to think about this topic for a few days.

Quote:
Also, be aware of how your partner is feeling: if he's hesitant, confused and fearful, he needs your support, attention, and advice. It's a strange role to be in, I know, advising your partner on how to proceed with a possible new relationship, but it can have the paradoxical effect of strengthening your partnership.
This is where I want us to get. I want us to be able to comfort and advise each other. I want to be happy when he is happy. I want to share his happiness. I would love for him to fall in love with someone who I can too admire and adore.

Maybe I should meet her.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-28-2011, 02:53 PM
kamala kamala is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Deepest Darkest
Posts: 51
Default

Hi Vanille

I can really relate to your emotional state right now about two years ago my boyfriend started seeing a new woman and I was very up and down, very ambiguous about everything... but in hindsight it was all ok.

I think you have to remember that it's a process, as trite as it sounds. You really have to move into these things, gradually. I think the state that hurries it along is just being receptive, just appreciating that your mind and heart will take time to adjust.

It's so touching and sweet that you want yourself to feel happy for him, for him to fall in love etc. I think that's a good sign. You shouldn't keep calling yourself petty and silly You're doing something amazing and new You feel how you feel, and that stuff goes away the sooner you acknowledge and accept it, and, if your emotions are trying to alert you to something wrong, then you need to address that too, obviously.

If this is something that you largely want to do, and you are vigilant, and you and him love each other, then these are just growing pains. Maybe meet her. Watch how you feel. Be kind to yourself. If it's too scary, back up a little, but don't let your fears get in the way too much...

About the stretching... "a mind that is stretched to a new idea never returns to its original dimension" Can't remember who said that...
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-28-2011, 02:56 PM
hyperskeptic's Avatar
hyperskeptic hyperskeptic is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Georgia
Posts: 401
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vanille View Post
Before we came to Europe, he put us on hold because he couldn't handle the jealousy issues of me being with another man. His idea was that maybe he could get past those issues if he did it himself and could better understand the situation first. (Meaning, I had to wait to develop any interests in men on my own until he had sex with a girl).

If I let him have sex with someone out here, it may be that push he was looking for. He has already retracted some of what he said before, saying that he understands better already without even having slept with anyone ... but I feel like if he doesn't try something out here, we may be in the same limbo we were in when we left.
Sorry, but this makes me chuckle. It seems like the setup for an episode of a sitcom . . . something that can only end with amusing mayhem.

Of course, in reality, the mayhem could be anything but amusing.

Once I'm done chuckling, I can hear the alarm bells going off.

(The other thing that sets of alarm bells is his interest in the red-light district. A "fling" with a woman at work is one thing. Paying for sex is quite another. I can understand his being curious about "partaking" - a quaint little euphemism to hide the true nature of the thing, which is the reduction of sex to an economic transaction - but, if I were in your position, my partner "partaking" in the red-light district would give me the screaming heebie-jeebies. You are well within your rights to set a firm boundary in that direction.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vanille View Post
We both love each other and have a solid foundation. How long should we wait before jumping in? Is living in this limbo actually getting us anywhere? Or would it be better to take some baby steps (let him go out on a date with this girl) and work the the emotions of a real (versus hypothetical) situation?
Where are you trying to get to? And what's the hurry?

Baby steps seem about right.

Diving in and having sex with other people - as a "fling" or as a transaction - seems likely to prove disastrous . . . especially if you understand polyamory to be not primarily focused on sex.
__________________

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" - Charles Darwin

"Mystical explanations are considered deep. The truth is that they are not even superficial." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-28-2011, 03:12 PM
Senga's Avatar
Senga Senga is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Buffalo NY, willing to relocate
Posts: 99
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamala View Post
"a mind that is stretched to a new idea never returns to its original dimension" Can't remember who said that...
I love that quote! (by Oliver Wendell Holmes) Thanks


Vanille: I didn't realize a few things when I posted. To me, a simply sexual experience or fling is not polyamory, rather, it is simply consentual non-monogamy. While there is overlap between the two, maybe you should have a discussion about the differences with your partner.

My experience with polyamory has been ideally more focussed on the emotional, mental, personality, and attraction relationship aspects, with sex coming after.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-28-2011, 03:17 PM
vanille's Avatar
vanille vanille is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
Posts: 76
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperskeptic View Post
A "fling" with a woman at work is one thing. Paying for sex is quite another. I can understand his being curious about "partaking" - a quaint little euphemism to hide the true nature of the thing, which is the reduction of sex to an economic transaction - but, if I were in your position, my partner "partaking" in the red-light district would give me the screaming heebie-jeebies.
You know.. it may sound weird... but the prostitute sounds less threatening than the crush. While I am anxious about it, and it does give me reason to fret and worry - it's nothing compared to the crush. And I'm not sure why. We've had discussions about what happens if he sleeps with anyone (prostitute included). There are strict rules that we are going to follow when we are sleeping with other people (condoms, testing, honesty).

You see, my husband is very very sexual. He loves sex and everything about sex. So when the idea of him "purchasing" a sexual experience, to me, makes sense. There are some things I simply am not comfortable doing. I would love for him to experience all of his fantasies. Even if they aren't with me.

I really think we have only this life and nothing beyond it. It makes us realize how short life really is and how important it is to live it to its fullest.

Maybe the difference lies in the fact that with the prostitute, as soon as the door closes and he leaves, it's over. With a crush ... I just feel there is something more.

Last edited by vanille; 11-28-2011 at 03:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-28-2011, 03:19 PM
vanille's Avatar
vanille vanille is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
Posts: 76
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senga View Post
My experience with polyamory has been ideally more focussed on the emotional, mental, personality, and attraction relationship aspects, with sex coming after.
Yes. That is where I am. For him, right now, it is about sexual fulfillment right now. If something deeper grows for him and a girl, great. But right now, he's just focused on experiencing new and different things.

We understand that we are looking for different things though and are wrapping our minds around that.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-28-2011, 05:30 PM
Armani Armani is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 8
Default

Thought I should weigh in. I just got back from the previously mentioned class and, after reading all the responses here, I felt I ought to at least clarify the emotions etc. from my side. First off, I should say that my libido is broken. I would be perfectly content having sex at least 3 times a day - every single day - forever. I love everything about it and want to try most every hetero thing that there is to do dozens of times. Vanille, on the other hand, is a little more on the normal end of the curve and is currently a little less interested in experimentation and new experiences. Naturally, this incompatibility impacts our relationship and tends to add strain where there should only be mutual enjoyment. Creating a relationship where this strain does not exist is the best case scenario in my opinion. In virtually every other aspect of our relationship I am completely satisfied - or at least getting there because we are making progress.

In regards to the Danish colleague, I spoke to Vanille this morning and she indicated that it would be very hard for her to deal with if I pursued anything here. Additionally, I don't think I am willing to take the risk of even asking her out anyway. I'd love to (provided Vanille was not impacted negatively) but the risks are too high professionally. Unfortunately, in the modern business world, if a girl is made uncomfortable by my simply asking her out, my career could be impacted negatively. Furthermore, there is the very real possibility that she could have a negative moral reaction to our relationship dynamic and feel offended. Put those two together, and I think that the situation is one where I would feel wrong about pursuing any action - so I won't. On the other hand, that totally sucks because she's very attractive, new, shiny, exotic, and probably smarter than me.

The Amsterdam prostitute thing is something else. Once again, I only really feel comfortable doing something that Vanille is okay with. As I mentioned, regardless of the professional concerns, I just didn't feel okay pursuing anything today with the colleague given how Vanille and I left our conversation this morning. For me, personally, I think indulging in the wiles of a Amsterdam prostitute is something I'd like to do from a pure experience standpoint. It might be a lot of fun, it also might be a letdown, but I'd still like to partake and try something new.

I think I should also elaborate on the difficulties I had shortly before coming to Europe. I was being irrational and was all wrapped up in the possessive emotions of jealousy. The big component that I've been realizing is that I want to have new experiences. I want to try new things. I want to feel new emotions (eventually!). All of these things are unrelated to Vanille. I'm not looking to replace something that she is not giving me, because it's not her job to be the end-all-be-all for my every desire. At the same time, I had to ask myself, why should she be any different? I mean, my whole problem was predicated on the erroneous assumption that the reason we wanted to explore polyamory was that I needed more sexual fulfillment, but I was naturally satisfying her every need. Yes, I realize that this was silly - hence the above realization. At the same time, until we do progress into poly, she IS the only real fulfillment that I can have of any sexual desires. Lots of tension there, as you might imagine.

I think the big reason for the push - in terms of not taking it a bit slower than we have - is that we both want to progress, and have noticed the tension as a result of our sexual incompatibility growing. To make matters even more complicated, I've been lifting a ton (I've gained about 15 lbs of muscle and lost about 10 lbs of fat since my most updated picture) and my testosterone is through the roof at the moment - it's been an interesting feeling! Naturally, my sexual appetite is even more intense. We've also been talking about poly so much that I've gotten excited at the prospect. Now, at the same time, I definitely don't want to ruin everything by pushing Vanille - I think going at the pace of the slower person is a great idea. So, I'm a bit stuck - I don't want to push her, but I want more. If I don't push either for more sex or poly, the tension is freaking palpable, but I really can't risk tainting what we have or what we might have though poly. I've been doing my absolute utmost to not push her, but it's been ridiculously tough in this environment.

In any case, that's sort of the world as I see it in this moment, and it is probably not all that clear as I am befuddled with cough medicine at the moment. Got a cold from walking through the rain yesterday.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-28-2011, 08:08 PM
hyperskeptic's Avatar
hyperskeptic hyperskeptic is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Georgia
Posts: 401
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vanille View Post
Yes. That is where I am. For him, right now, it is about sexual fulfillment right now. If something deeper grows for him and a girl, great. But right now, he's just focused on experiencing new and different things.

We understand that we are looking for different things though and are wrapping our minds around that.
This does put a different complexion on things, as does the long and thoughtful note from the man himself, Armani.

I'm not sure what else to say. The two of you clearly do have a lot to talk about and work through, but I'm guessing, based on what the two of you have written here, that you will manage work through it. From what you've written, it seems to me you have a lot going for you.

I wonder if, maybe, a little risk taking is in order - within the bounds of safety and responsibility the two of you seem to have agreed upon - with lots and lots of talk and mutual reassurance along the way?

Actually, something my wife is struggling with in the fallout from the flame-out of another relationship may be relevant: the way to learn to trust someone is to just go ahead and trust them (though you might want to verify a little later . . . )

(It's a long story, but the wife of my wife's would-be love is now keeping him on a very short leash, hoping to rebuild trust by controlling his every move. It's a bad scene, and my wife is realizing she's well out of it.)

All the best to the two of you, and safe travels back home.
__________________

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" - Charles Darwin

"Mystical explanations are considered deep. The truth is that they are not even superficial." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
meeting new partners, metamours

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:10 AM.