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  #61  
Old 11-24-2011, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
I'm always surprised when a guy is surprised that women still feel oppressed in our society. Even though a woman does feel empowered in her own life, the overtones of oppression are still everywhere we look, whether it's about what we wear, what career we choose, where we can walk alone without fear, or how many sexual partners we have.
Funny.... I'm a woman, and I am also surprised whenever a woman still feels particularly oppressed in our society.

Everyone is oppressed in our society. Sure, women face challenges by virtue of being women, but so do men by virtue of being men. Simple example: I can choose to wear either a skirt or pants to school tomorrow, and no one will blink. But if my classmate Adam shows up in a dress, it's going to cause such a stir.

When a woman becomes a doctor or a lawyer, she's "empowered." When a man becomes a nurse, it's "he couldn't get into med school." If he chooses to be a flower arranger or dance instructor, he's "probably gay."

Throughout my academic career, I've received 3 scholarships that were reserved for women only. If someone tried to put out a scholarship for men only, it would be labelled as discrimination.

I don't feel oppressed by what I wear, what career I choose, or where I can walk. Sure, I don't want to go hitchhiking alone, but that's not a societal oppression, it's a physiological "Men have more muscle mass than me and are more prone to being rapists and serial killers" reality. And my husband is more afraid to walk in the "bad parts of town" than I am.

I've completed one degree in math and I'm completing another in physics. I went to a "Women in Physics" conference this summer and was blown away by how much everyone felt so... helpless! I don't know if I've just always been oblivious to the fact that I'm one of the only girls in my classes, or if I noticed and just didn't give a crap because it's not a big deal. But I think half the problem of this "women are so oppressed" garbage is that some women are still playing our entire gender out to be the victim. As long as we keep playing to this "Damsel in Distress" role, then why be so surprised if that's how you're treated?

Truth of the matter is, anyone with a computer and an internet connection is too rich to be truly oppressed. If you feel oppressed "everywhere you look" then it's because you're choosing to perceive things that way. I have never felt oppressed in my life. I live in Redneck-central, I am in the hard-sciences surrounded by engineers, I see the same magazines as everyone, and yet I feel completely empowered to do whatever I choose to do in this life.

I'm in one of the most "male-dominated" fields on the planet... For the record, there are far fewer female physicists than doctors or lawyers or CEOs. And it's not because the departments won't let them in, it's because they're choosing not to go. I have yet to speak to a single woman in either math or physics or engineering who has ever felt like a door was closed in her face because of her gender. I've been encouraged by every supervisor to continue in this field, and have never once had it suggested, implied, or in any other way indicated that my gender could hold me back in the slightest from achieving my goals. It's all about attitude, baby!
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."

Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 11-24-2011 at 08:18 AM.
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  #62  
Old 11-24-2011, 08:05 AM
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I'm surprised no one has brought up accidental conception in this conversation.

Everyone's talking about the man's insecurity, about being "enough cock" for his wife, or about not seeing other women as competition. But what about the very real and valid concern that his wife is going to get pregnant by another man, and as the husband of the mother, it will be the his responsibility to raise and provide for that child?

Especially if she's not on the pill, either because they're trying to get pregnant themselves or because she has medical reasons not to take it... Then she's just one broken condom away from "oops, wrong daddy."

My husband had a vasectomy. He's taken permanent action to make sure he never accidentally gets anyone pregnant again. The last thing he wants to do at this point is raise another man's baby. I don't even have a OPP, but on those grounds alone, I wouldn't blame him for wanting one...
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."
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  #63  
Old 11-24-2011, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
I'm surprised no one has brought up accidental conception in this conversation.

Everyone's talking about the man's insecurity, about being "enough cock" for his wife, or about not seeing other women as competition. But what about the very real and valid concern that his wife is going to get pregnant by another man...
Everyone is talking about feelings of insecurity (not being "enough" of a man for her, etc) and not an accidental pregnancy, because that seems to be the only fear involved. Accidental pregnancies can be terminated, or paternity affirmed so whoever is biologically the dad can be monetarily responsible for it.

OTOH, if a married man was having fertility issues, his wife's lover could do well as a sperm donor and give his metamour the daddy experience he wants!

Just like with women (who fear the other woman has just got to be thinner, have better boobs, prettier, better at sex), men who want OPPs usually want them out of fear the other guy will be taller, fitter, have a bigger cock, make more money, be better at sex [more stamina for fucking, better oral skills], funnier, nicer, have more hair, perhaps younger and more fun, etc.

Most of all, poly men are afraid the other guy is going to steal their woman away. For some reason that makes no sense, a penis is needed to steal his woman away. Another vagina-having-person couldn't steal his woman.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37

Last edited by ImaginaryIllusion; 11-24-2011 at 03:24 PM.
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  #64  
Old 11-24-2011, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Everyone is talking about feelings of insecurity (not being "enough" of a man for her, etc) and not an accidental pregnancy, because that seems to be the only fear involved. Accidental pregnancies can be terminated, or paternity affirmed so whoever is biologically the dad can be monetarily responsible for it.

OTOH, if a married man was having fertility issues, his wife's lover could do well as a sperm donor and give his metamour the daddy experience he wants!

Just like with women (who fear the other woman has just got to be thinner, have better boobs, prettier, better at sex), men who want OPPs usually want them out of fear the other guy will be taller, fitter, have a bigger cock, make more money, be better at sex [more stamina for fucking, better oral skills], funnier, nicer, have more hair, perhaps younger and more fun, etc.

Most of all, poly men are afraid the other guy is going to steal their woman away. For some reason that makes no sense, a penis is needed to steal his woman away. Another vagina-having-person couldn't steal his woman.
There is only one problem with the assertion that paternity can be affirmed and the actual father will pay for the child is that some state laws do not see it that way. If you are the husband OR your name is on the birth certificate, you are legally and financially responsible for that child; biologically yours or not. For example: We have a friend who is getting divorced; his wife had an affair, got pregnant, and he kicked her out. They have a child together or at least he thought . She is now on baby #2 with the other man. During the court proceedings she stated that she doesn't know if their daughter is his or not but she is still seeking child support. The judge ruled that my friend has to pay support, whether or not the child is biologically his because his name is on the birth certificate. And he is also paying extra support because his soon to be ex is not working and the biological father of her 2 other children is also not working. So basically, because they are still married, he is legally responsible to support his wife and any children she may have until they are divorced. Even though 2 of the kids are definitely not his.
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  #65  
Old 11-24-2011, 06:29 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Everyone is talking about feelings of insecurity (not being "enough" of a man for her, etc) and not an accidental pregnancy, because that seems to be the only fear involved. Accidental pregnancies can be terminated, or paternity affirmed so whoever is biologically the dad can be monetarily responsible for it.
It's not always that simple. The woman may not want to have an abortion, and I wasn't talking about monitary support so much as "Now I have to live with this kid that my wife had with some other guy, and I didn't even want another fucking kid, never mind one that isn't even mine."

In my case, I know one of my lingering concerns as I started to come out of my OPP/OVP phase was the increased risk of STDs from intercourse compared to oral or fingering. I would be lying if I said I didn't still have some concerns in that department. I also realize that I was using that policy literally: no co-mingling of other penises and vaginas, but other sexual acts with the opposite sex were ok. From what I now understand, you mean it in terms of "no involvement with people that have penises" whether or not you come into contact with that penis.

The point I'm trying to make is that there are rational reasons for wanting these policies that have nothing to do with personal insecurity, low self-esteem, or jealousy.

Now you can sit there and say "OPP specifically refers only to men who want their wife to have one penis while they're allowed to have multiple vaginas, and only refers to this policy when it's because of the man's insecurity and not because of health concerns or unwanted pregnancy" but in no way is that inherently implied by the term.

Hence, I think it's perfectly reasonable that people think this term is derogatory and judgmental, since to use it "appropriately" you pretty much have to redefine it every time so the person knows what you mean, in which case why not use your grown-up words to spell it out explicitly?
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."
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  #66  
Old 11-25-2011, 02:39 AM
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What you 2 say is perfectly reasonable, with one fatal flaw.

If the man in question wants an OPP, and yet wants multiple female lovers, there is just as much risk of an unwanted pregnancy.

Sure, its HIS sperm. But that doesn't bother him? OK, buddy.... ("just proves what a man I am!")
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
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  #67  
Old 11-25-2011, 02:52 PM
PipeDreamer PipeDreamer is offline
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
... I don't have time to go back and look for where he said what. Besides, I think he has already decided I'm an asshole and is sticking to it.
No, I don't think you are an asshole.

I think that you may have misread and/or misunderstood what I was writing. I think you then filled in the blanks of my story as I have told it thus far with information about me that simply is not true. It's a bit frustrating and unfortunate.

I haven't assumed that this forum is made up of newbie haters and I haven't judged this forum. In the past I saw a couple posts by other newbies where the response was a bit negative and included summary labeling. I thought it pertinent to include in this thread. That's a far cry from judging the whole forum and all its members. I have spent the past year browsing this forum off and on and I thought I was taking a positive approach by offering my impressions about this thread topic from the viewpoint of a new contributing member. I was not trying to provoke any agreements that everyone here sucks.

I am not specifically seeking a secondary nor am I specifically seeking a triad.

My previous post was supposed to come across as neutral and in search of clarification as well as advancing the thread topic. It was neither meant to sound offensive nor as if I were offended.

Should you wish to discuss this further perhaps we could move it to PM so as not to wander off the topic of this thread.

PD
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  #68  
Old 11-25-2011, 04:11 PM
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I thought that was a wee bit of a cranky, jumping to conclusions response from RPmyself. She gets triggered sometimes. Please don't take it to heart, Pipe, you seem like a cool dude to me.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37

Last edited by Magdlyn; 11-25-2011 at 06:17 PM.
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  #69  
Old 11-25-2011, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
Funny.... I'm a woman, and I am also surprised whenever a woman still feels particularly oppressed in our society.

Everyone is oppressed in our society. Sure, women face challenges by virtue of being women, but so do men by virtue of being men. Simple example: I can choose to wear either a skirt or pants to school tomorrow, and no one will blink. But if my classmate Adam shows up in a dress, it's going to cause such a stir.
This strikes me as funny. Back in graduate school, I tried to make a similar point to a postmodern feminist classmate of mine - only I focused on the ways in which our culture tends to hobble men's emotional lives - and she replied, somewhat acidly: "White boys don't get to be victims."

I still laugh at all the many assumptions built into that statement. I wish I had replied, at the time: But don't you see? That's my point! Men are oppressed by not being allowed to be victims!
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  #70  
Old 11-25-2011, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
*shrug* that isn't what I read, but whatever, point taken... I don't have time to go back and look for where he said what. Besides, I think he has already decided I'm an asshole and is sticking to it.

I'm not burnt out actually. Where did anyone think that? Maybe I was tired that post or something.
I think I was tired as well, because it was meant to say probably burnt out. Sorry! You are good people in my book RP and I told him so in a PM. Sorry to confuse you!
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