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  #11  
Old 11-01-2011, 02:34 PM
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redpepper redpepper is offline
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To me, if you did sexualized stuff that she didn't know about then that is cheating. Think about it; if someone you were with touched someone in a passionate way such as kissing or fondled her through her shirt, how would you feel? If someone you love and trust is only with you put his mouth on someone elses vulva and made out with it, how would that make you feel? In her eyes, you had sex with him. I would be surprised if she thought otherwise. I think it would be wise to start by understanding the impact of that on her. It might help in order to make decisions for yourself about what YOU want to do in order to feel like YOU have integrity, are trustworthy and a decent person.

It seems like there is a huge desire to down play actions in cheating when the impact is actually the opposite. "Oh it was just a little kissing" to the people cheating is a devistation to the one being cheated on. Feeling that devistation is a good way to mark where the boundary is so its possible to stay within it. At least that is what has been working for me.
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  #12  
Old 11-01-2011, 03:29 PM
Minxxa Minxxa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
I don't think honesty is too much to ask.
I think that about sums it up.
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  #13  
Old 11-02-2011, 08:15 PM
LittleSara LittleSara is offline
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Default Thank You!!

I just want to say thank you to everyone...

I recognize that this relationship doesn't fit what I want for me right now.

I didn't think I was minimizing what we were doing or the harm it could cause to his other partners by saying that we didn't have "sex", but I guess I do feel defensive about it so maybe I was using that as a shield subconsciously, I don't know.

I have been avoiding him lately but that's not a good solution either, especially since I don't want to lose him as a friend since he has been there for me through tough times. I am going to see him tonight and hopefully the talk will go well.

Any advice on how to word things? Anabell, I really liked the example you gave about non-judgemental communication... thank you!

I know I shouldn't be so scared to lose anybody and... I guess if he doesn't understand then that's just gonna be the way it is...
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  #14  
Old 11-03-2011, 05:22 AM
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I think I would just tell him that your conscience got the better of you and that friendship would work better for you (if that is indeed how you feel that is). Then I would probably add that I hope he decides to be brave and start confessing to his partner, and that I will be there for him as much as I can be as a friend when he does. I think I would keep it that short and see what he says....

good luck, *hugs* hard stuff... take care of yourself.
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  #15  
Old 11-10-2011, 11:33 PM
LittleSara LittleSara is offline
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Unhappy Lost a friend?

Sooo I realized I never wrapped up this thread...

I brought up the subject while helping him fold his laundry. Explaining how I don't want to do anything that would hurt anybody. The arguments I faced and was pretty much unprepared for...

"Why can't you let me worry about that?"
"It won't hurt anybody if they don't find out."
"If we make each other happy we shouldn't stop seeing each other."
"You make me happy, don't I make you happy?"

I felt like I was talking in circles, just repeating myself over and over, and that's how he felt too, it made him angry/upset/confused...

We have been avoiding each other ever since.

The End?





No, not the end!! I'm going to attend a poly event on Monday and hopefully meet some real, honest people who can give me guidance or learn with me... or perhaps both?! I know it will take time and no one can replace anyone else but I'm staying optimistic for now. Thanks everyone for your comments and support... <3
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  #16  
Old 11-11-2011, 02:08 AM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleSara View Post
I brought up the subject while helping him fold his laundry. Explaining how I don't want to do anything that would hurt anybody. The arguments I faced and was pretty much unprepared for...

"Why can't you let me worry about that?"
"It won't hurt anybody if they don't find out."
"If we make each other happy we shouldn't stop seeing each other."
"You make me happy, don't I make you happy?"
Well, mull over those questions and see what the answers might be for you.

I was in a kinda similar situation. Oil Man recently asked me if I would do a threesome with him and an acquaintance of his - a married woman. Her husband would not be informed. I declined and not because of my moral awesomeness or my super poly ethics. I probably would have accepted with glee if she was in an open marriage or her husband approved or consented.

For me in that situation, it isn't actually about her, her marriage, and to a degree, it isn't about not contributing to someone's else pain. That situation would hurt me personally - I could not be authentic or have integrity. I would be less than what I want to be. And that is painful to me. Yes, she might have very good reasons not to be honest with him, or to step out on him. There are situations out there that are very gray. But I cannot put myself in that situation personally. So while the short term benefit would have been a fun night by all (and it would have been hot) the long term pain to me is not worth it.

Of course, I don't like that Oil Man has slept with her. I've told him why I am not interested in a threesome with her and he understands but he just wouldn't make the same decison. I think he's laying up some karma for himself that I wouldn't want heading towards me. (Karma as in we create our reality by our thoughts and actions - so sex with cheating married women likely means drama coming one's way sooner or later. Not the popular version of karma as do a bad thing, get hit by truck later on.) If we were more involved, then his actions would bother me more than they do. I'm a fuckbuddy, not his conscience. He's a grown man, responsible for himself. Is this ethically slippery? Well, yes. Some would say I should cut him loose and I can see that argument. He knows why I do what I do (or don't do). Maybe he'll think about it. Or not. But it's ultimately about my comfort in my own skin.

Ok, so I hope my ramblings were kinda helpful!
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  #17  
Old 11-11-2011, 04:47 PM
LittleSara LittleSara is offline
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Default Thank you!!

You definitely seem like you have been in a similar situation... thank you for replying to my thread!

These were my favorite things that you said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
That situation would hurt me personally - I could not be authentic or have integrity. I would be less than what I want to be. And that is painful to me. Yes, she might have very good reasons not to be honest with him, or to step out on him. There are situations out there that are very gray. But I cannot put myself in that situation personally. So while the short term benefit would have been a fun night by all (and it would have been hot) the long term pain to me is not worth it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
If we were more involved, then his actions would bother me more than they do. I'm a fuckbuddy, not his conscience. He's a grown man, responsible for himself. Is this ethically slippery? Well, yes. Some would say I should cut him loose and I can see that argument. He knows why I do what I do (or don't do). Maybe he'll think about it. Or not. But it's ultimately about my comfort in my own skin.
My guy is not married though... to me it seems like there should be some significance. Difference between dating "single & married"...

"Cheating is cheating" I'm sure that's true. And something in me pushed me to have that conversation with him.

But... I was torn. "Am I asking him to sacrifice his other relationships with mono- girls just to continue having a relationship with a poly- person?" How is that fair?

I am still going to move on & meet others but it's true - I still have a lot of unanswered questions. For me and for him... (Because I feel like I owe him better answers than just repeating, I already told you I'm not going to do something that's hurting someone else..." Lame.)
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  #18  
Old 11-11-2011, 08:29 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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To me, part of the ethics here depends on what the status of all the relationships are.

For example, if he's "dating" them then that's different from "in a relationship." I think under certain circumstances, the assumption in this day and age is that if you haven't discussed exclusivity, then it's a given that other people are "dating around." There is an onus on each participant to ask whether their sexual partners are involved in any other sexual relationships. Now if these women have asked and he lied, that's very unethical. You have no way to know whether they asked, and I'm not convinced he would be entirely honest if you brought up the topic.

But his questions raise some alarm bells. They reek of secrecy and selfishness. They're manipulative. He's clearly been down this road before and has well-rehearsed responses.

"Why can't you let me worry about that?"
Because by participating, I'm part of it too, and I want to act responsibly. I feel that lying and sneaking is not acting responsibly.

"It won't hurt anybody if they don't find out."
And it will hurt them deeply if they do find out. They could see us together out in public, a mutual friend could spill the beans, or I might feel so guilty that I need to tell them myself.

"If we make each other happy we shouldn't stop seeing each other."
It doesn't make me happy to lie and sneak. If I'm with you, I want to be acknowledged for what I am and not treated like a second-class citizen by being referred to as a "friend" when I'm actually more than that.

"You make me happy, don't I make you happy?"
The only person who can make you happy is yourself. If you're not happy, then a relationship will not make it happen.

What would bother me here is being treated like his dirty little secret. I assume you don't hold hands and cuddle in public, that he treats you like and refers to you as a friend because he doesn't want to lose what he's got going on with the other women. In that situation, I would feel like a second-class citizen and I would not tolerate it.

I have a friend who was in a similar situation. She was in a relationship with someone who felt he could not come out of the closet for professional reasons. His wife and all his other partners knew about her, so things were good on the relationship-honesty front. They would hold hands when walking down the streets, but as soon as he spotted someone he knew, he would drop her hand and put a few inches between them. She got tired of being his dirty little secret and ended the relationship, even though she really liked him and enjoyed his company. In his case, it was fear of losing his job, and not fear of losing a piece of ass, that kept him in the closet, but the effect on her was the same.
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Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 11-11-2011 at 08:38 PM.
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  #19  
Old 11-11-2011, 10:20 PM
LittleSara LittleSara is offline
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Default Thank you Cat

I hope you all know that you really do make a difference in a person's life... because you really are helping me to understand myself and work through this...

This really struck a cord with me:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
"You make me happy, don't I make you happy?"
The only person who can make you happy is yourself. If you're not happy, then a relationship will not make it happen.
I need to work on this. I need to be better at making mySELF happy. I was getting caught up worrying about him too much. And thinking that I needed his friendship. It's true that I care about him and his friendship has meant a lot to me...

But I CAN be and I HAVE been happy without him. And I don't need his friendship, there are many other possibilities out there. I don't NEED to compromise for him if it doesn't feel right to me. Besides, is he making any compromises for me? I don't see them...

I still value and love him. But just reminding myself of that was empowering. Thank you, Cat!!

As You Can See: LittleSara has a long long ways to grow...
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  #20  
Old 11-12-2011, 01:51 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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I'm so glad my words were helpful!

In my history, whenever I've been happy with myself and content with my life, that's when I've met the best partners.

Whenever I've felt a void in my life that I tried to fill with romance, I've found that it's never more than a temporary band-aid and doesn't lead to any long term solution.

Healthy happy people are drawn to healthy happy people.

And the best part of working on your own happiness is that whatever else happens with relationships, work, etc., you get to keep your happiness as something you built and own yourself, and not something that someone gave you and can take away.
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