The pace of the one who is struggling most

[AnotherConfused]

Well, at 2am we've decided to stop talking for the night. We've gone around and around and around. We seem to keep coming back to the same things: I have a need for more love, and deeper relationships, than I am getting. He feels like he gives me way more than most people get, and I should be satisfied. By more, he means hard work and commitment, not affection and passion.

Now he doesn't even want to try counseling. He read this thread and was aghast that I had shared so much private information publicly. (Everyone has figured out which married couple in which city in which country in the world we are by now, right?) He still sees polyamory as immoral, abnormal, and a choice. (I'm feeling for gay people tonight.) He thinks I am going to cause our marriage to end, because of my inevitable decision to have sex with other men. I pointed out that if I did have sex with someone else, it would be his choice to end the marriage over it or not. I would want to stay married.

Now we seem stuck in a competitive mindset, and it keeps coming back to who is suffering more, and who is getting their way, and who is compromising. In his view, he has done all the compromising and sacrificing, and I have gotten my way and will continue to get my way. He is absolutely unwilling to believe that I have yielded to his feelings at all. Giving in to the "impulse" of loving others has been a heartless choice I made with complete disregard for his feelings, and a sane person would not find herself in this situation.

I know we have both suffered. It hurts him that I am not conforming to his view of a wife. He thought I was monogamous when we married -and so did I. So he feels betrayed, and I understand. This is why I am not sexually involved with anyone else. I'm trying to look out for his feelings. But oh man, I'm tired of the implication that my own feelings are selfish and immoral! It's love we're talking about!

Now he's talking about some sort of credit system where I have to log a certain number of hours of leisure time with him in order to "earn" time with the other men. Something tells me that's not going to feel so good. "Honey, will you come spend two more hours watching a movie with me so I can finish earning my time with L before the weekend? Or wait, if we make it a double feature I can stay through dinner." Ha.

This all just sucks.

[bassman]

oh honey, I dont have any advice , but lots of hugs from me. Feeling for both of you....

[Magdlyn]

The biggest red flag I see here is your h's feeling that it's more important what others think of you two than what he and you think of you two. I see this in conservative Christian circles where giving the impression you are a good Christian is as important as how you practice your faith for yourself. Too often it devolves into the appearance to others being MORE important than the reality in oneself or one's relationship to God.

Is this a message you want to present and inculcate in your children??? This "propriety" masking unhappiness and shame and lack of real connection?

You're dying inside from lack of affection and desire from your husband. Of COURSE you're attracted to your two other lovers, since they desire the real you, don't find you immoral or sick, accept you fully.

You married and made certain promises, but you've changed, or discovered and unearthed more about your authentic self as you matured. So, your choice is, do you give in to your h and stagnate and live a life of quiet desperation and unhappiness, or take the leap and live the life your true self wants and needs? Your h wants an old-fashioned wife, the "little woman," figuratively barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. Making no demands, feeling her h has the final say.

fuck that shit

[Magdlyn]

Originally Posted by AnotherConfused

There has been no meeting in the middle. There is only his way (the right/normal/decent way) and my way (the selfish/immoral/homewrecking way) and my freedom to make the choice between them. He has never been willing to look beyond that point of view.

And you seem to have internalized his view of you. You are the selfish immoral one and he is the saintly matryr, eating his kids' leftovers. Bleh.

You're NOT sick! You're beautiful, lusty, wholesome and human! Just because you're different than him doesn't automatically make him good and you bad.

Gah, your situation is triggering for me because I spent over 30 years with a guy who got jealous if I so much as looked at another man, or wanted to go see a new movie because one of my favorite actors was in it, or engaged in more than a 5 minute conversation with another man. Plus, I am bi, and he was always confused, threatened, and a bit disgusted by that as well.

I'm trying to decide between marriage counselors I found on a poly-friendly list. I don't think he's ever heard it from anyone but me that it's possible for married people to love others besides their spouses.

Your husband really isn't meeting your needs, your deepest needs for intimacy. Sure, he's a good provider, a good dad in some ways (except for the messages he gives to the boys about "propriety" as I mentioned above, as well as this martyrdom bs), but what about YOU? Don't YOU matter? Be your own primary, live the life that is calling to you.

[bassman]

Originally Posted by Magdlyn

The biggest red flag I see here is your h's feeling that it's more important what others think of you two than what he and you think of you two. I see this in conservative Christian circles where giving the impression you are a good Christian is as important as how you practice your faith for yourself. Too often it devolves into the appearance to others being MORE important than the reality in oneself or one's relationship to God.



fuck that shit

I love you for this post, Magdlyn - it sums up my wife and the church exactly.

[redpepper]

Ahhh, I hope you got some sleep in the end. Both of you.

It seems that traditional values and mainstream mentality are all he is willing to accept. Its not a competition, where's the compassion? Have you told him you understand he feels betrayed that you have discovered you aren't monogamous but that this is where you are now and there is no turning back? Maybe starting compassionate talk will get you both a better foot hold on what to do next.

[nycindie]

Originally Posted by AnotherConfused

Now he's talking about some sort of credit system where I have to log a certain number of hours of leisure time with him in order to "earn" time with the other men. Something tells me that's not going to feel so good. "Honey, will you come spend two more hours watching a movie with me so I can finish earning my time with L before the weekend? Or wait, if we make it a double feature I can stay through dinner." Ha.

I just want to comment on this point before anything else. I have to tell you that this isn't completely unheard of in poly. I dated a married poly guy who had an agreement with his wife (she had another steady partner and he was dating here and there) that whatever time they spend with others they must double with each other. Personally, I couldn't see how that works, but it didn't affect me so I didn't ask anymore about it. I know that they were fairly new to poly (less than a year) and had met early on with another couple whom they view as mentors of sorts, so I have a feeling they got that idea from those people. This is just to say it's not a totally foreign concept.

[AnotherConfused]

Originally Posted by nycindie

I just want to comment on this point before anything else. I have to tell you that this isn't completely unheard of in poly. I dated a married poly guy who had an agreement with his wife (she had another steady partner and he was dating here and there) that whatever time they spend with others they must double with each other. Personally, I couldn't see how that works, but it didn't affect me so I didn't ask anymore about it. I know that they were fairly new to poly (less than a year) and had met early on with another couple whom they view as mentors of sorts, so I have a feeling they got that idea from those people. This is just to say it's not a totally foreign concept.

While that may work for some, I told my husband this morning that I really don't want to set things up so that time I spend with him is a chore and time I spend with others is a reward. I'd rather he just let me know when he wants more time with me. As it is, I am home almost 24/7 and he rarely gives me the time of day.

So instead, I am keeping a detailed log for him of everything I am doing for the children and the household. He thinks it's a good idea. Maybe it is -I suspect he doesn't have a clue what I do, because he keeps telling me I need to be a better mother and do such and such, and everything he mentions is something I already do.

So in my husband's defense, I have to put out there that he is not a jealous man; before I was well he stayed home with the kids 3 nights a week so I could go dancing; he did not object to my attending a 3 day dance camp with one of these men (providing we did not "register as a couple")... he's not really a controlling person. But he is definitely stuck hard in his conviction that what's right is right, what's wrong is wrong, and I'm trying to force him into accepting something that is wrong.

So yeah, of course I feel more drawn to the men who accept me. I'm working hard at trying to accept myself. My self esteem is shot after 6 months of debilitating illness, but deep down I am happy to be someone who loves, and forms deep connections, and has a vigorous sex drive, and I don't feel like that is wrong. I also strongly believe that I am an amazing mom -two natural childbirths (no value judgments here -I'm just saying), 6 total years breastfeeding, I've managed to get a master's degree in education and created a growing successful business with several employees, all without our daughters ever spending a moment in day care. I had both our kids reading with enthusiasm at first or second grade level before they started kindergarten. I feed them organic gluten free vegetarian meals, volunteer in their classrooms, nurture their passions, and read to them every night. I don't think there's anyone who knows me who would argue that I am not an awesome mom -except my husband.

I don't want to end my marriage. I want to be appreciated and loved, first and foremost by my husband.

[AnotherConfused]

Originally Posted by redpepper

Ahhh, I hope you got some sleep in the end. Both of you.

It seems that traditional values and mainstream mentality are all he is willing to accept. Its not a competition, where's the compassion? Have you told him you understand he feels betrayed that you have discovered you aren't monogamous but that this is where you are now and there is no turning back? Maybe starting compassionate talk will get you both a better foot hold on what to do next.

I have told him this, yes. He thinks it is a choice. He thinks all people feel transient moments of attraction, say, to a stranger at the bus stop or whatever, and the only difference between me and a "normal" person is that I have followed these impulses and allowed relationships to develop. So my "this is who I am now" he reads as "I'm going to keep making immoral choices."

I don't know how to break out of this competition mindset. Compassion has disappeared. I'm so desperate for his love and approval, I feel like I need to keep trying to prove that I'm a good person, and it comes out negative. He continues to play the martyr, the ill used husband doggedly working for his family in spite of his wife's immoral behavior. I'm starting to think we need to start all over: be roommates for now, and see if we can't woo each other back into love. I'm also half afraid he wouldn't want to try. As near as I can tell, he is married to me because he doesn't want a broken family.

I don't know how it got to be this bad. Once upon a time we were so close.

[AnotherConfused]

Frying pan to fire. I don't think my husband has loved me much for years. I think he has loved his image of a wife, and he's upset that I don't fit it now. We can't seem to talk about this without bitterness. He has such a negative image of me, and seems to think he is beyond all reproach. And yet, here I am unhappy, unloved.

We are no longer sharing a bed. I told him I don't sleep with just anyone, and I'm not comfortable sleeping with him when I don't feel his love.

Hurting hurting hurting hurting...