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  #21  
Old 11-03-2011, 07:17 PM
DubiousProposition DubiousProposition is offline
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Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
I think what you're saying is that you think you could prevent a divorce, and thus preserve access to your kids, by allowing her to emotionally manipulate you and blame you for everything?
More or less. I would take it. I could take it, I've taken worse in my life.

Thanks. I'll try and clear my head a bit. I just can't fathom why, when I'm offering everything she could want, still makes threats like this.

Sometimes it feels like that there is a part of her that hates and resents me and wants to hurt me. I've been understanding from the beginning, I think. I've tried to be rational. I've tried not to be the bad guy.

Time to get something to eat I think. Be well all.
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  #22  
Old 11-03-2011, 07:49 PM
MichelleZed MichelleZed is offline
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No. I can't not see my kids every day. That would hurt too much. If not them, me.

I feel completely unvalued.
I wasn't suggesting you don't see your kids. I was just saying you don't have to "take the fall" if your marriage fails to prevent them from "thinking ill" of their mother, as you said.

But hopefully it won't come to that! I hope you and your wife can work it out.
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  #23  
Old 11-03-2011, 08:00 PM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
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So she broke agreements the two of you made and then belittled those agreements as a way of justifying her lack of respect for you? To hell with that, dude...walk on.

From here, it appears she stepped out of line and it's now up to her to make things right. She broke trust and played you false--she has a moral obligation to make it right. She can live up to her commitments or not--it's not your place to try to clean up her mess.

I find the approach of one partner trying to foist polyamory off on another without warning to be extremely rude and dishonorable. I'm not an advocate of automatically trying to adjust to a poly arrangement just because of a partner's bad behavior. Fuck all that--nobody should enter into a polyamorous tangle in that fashion!
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When speaking of various forms of non-monogamy...it ain't poly if you're just fucking around.

While polyamory, open relationships, and swinging are all distinctly different approaches to non-monogamy, they are not mutually exlusive. Folks can, and some do, engage in more than one of them at a time--and it's all good.
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  #24  
Old 11-04-2011, 01:15 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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her "lover" is a "master" she met online. I hate D/S stuff. Can't do it, don't like it. So I've been great that that need is met for her. They've had sex a few times. But he has no feelings for her. HE is not even attracted to her per se. He simply gets off on having lots of women he plays with (almost all entirely online except my wife). She is one (of many) toy(s) for him. He is also rather poorly off in real life. I think she may feel a kind of Florence Nightingale effect for him.
Egad, what is she thinking! It sounds like she is caught up in the excitement of the D/s too much to see who she is really dealing with. Love? Oy veh.

While I could never relate to the original agreement you had, as my mindset is very far from that of a swinger's, and I do always think there should be room for the possibility of love to blossom when people get involved with numerous partners, I think AT is right when he said she shouldn't have foisted poly on you. It was rather mean and inconsiderate of her to just flat out say, "The rules suck because I don't want to play by them anymore, and I won't." There should have been a talk, "Hey, this isn't working for me anymore, I want us to reconsider our boundaries, allow for some feelings, can we take a step in that direction," etc., and go slowly, with consideration, if you consented.

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Originally Posted by DubiousProposition View Post
the fact that it hurts me, she says, would make her feel guilty. To stay with me, I have to NOT BE HURT by what she's doing.
She has convoluted some important basics. Yes, we are all responsible for our own feelings. It is true that your feeling hurt is, to a degree, a choice. By that I mean, people don't make us feel anything. We have thoughts and belief systems that influence our reactions to events and prompt feelings to arise in us. One person can say or do the same thing with ten different people and those people will each have their own unique responses and emotions regarding it. So, no, you don't have to feel hurt by her loving someone else (if this is love), and she did not hurt you. She admitted to having feelings that you and she agreed neither of you would entertain, and you feel hurt because of thoughts you have surrounding her actions, which is different from saying she hurt you. But now that hurt is very real, so you have to deal with it. However, she can't then realistically expect to turn around and say your feelings will make her feel guilty. Feeling guilty is her choice! She wants you to take responsibility for your feelings but she won't take responsibility for hers. That is just a manipulation.

Have you ever had any interactions or conversations with that Dom? Does he know you? Just wondering. She didn't move out, did she? Is she talking to you? I think therapy may be a good step for both of you to do together.
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  #25  
Old 11-04-2011, 04:21 AM
DubiousProposition DubiousProposition is offline
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Have you ever had any interactions or conversations with that Dom? Does he know you? Just wondering. She didn't move out, did she? Is she talking to you? I think therapy may be a good step for both of you to do together.

She was going to pack up tonight. Didn't. Things are better. And by better I mean I'm not getting screamed at.

I have talked to the Dom. He's not a BAD man. He just has no real interest in her. He's told me as much. He's told HER as much. That's why I felt safe with it before. A twist is he seems to have jettisoned her, at least for the time being. Admitting her feelings for him freaked me out. It has, apparently, also freaked him out.

Tonight has been very confusing. She told me she would break it off if I wished. I told her no, I didn't think that letting my emotional hangup dictate her actions would be wise. Then five minutes later I was told that if I had asked her to break it off, she might have left then and there.

Some kind of trap? Bipolar? I'm at sea here. Counseling might be a help. A few years ago we had some problems, and she wouldn't go. So I went myself. helped me get a handle on a few of my own issues at least. Although last time I went I was diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum. Maybe that's why I can't grok my wife. lol.

Maybe she'd go with me this time. Can't hurt to ask I guess.

night all. sleep isn't coming easy.

Last edited by DubiousProposition; 11-04-2011 at 04:26 AM. Reason: context.
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  #26  
Old 11-04-2011, 04:25 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Admitting her feelings for him freaked me out. It has, apparently, also freaked him out.
Indeed, I thought it would.
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Last edited by nycindie; 11-04-2011 at 04:30 AM.
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  #27  
Old 11-04-2011, 01:25 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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So why didn't she pack up....did you talk her down or did she lose her head of steam and just forget. Or could it have to do with being jettisoned? you win by default.... lucky you. I think it could be bluff calling time.

Good news is you past the test or didn't get caught in the trap unfortunately the bad news is she just destroyed the last bit of trust you had. I'm with Atumnaltone on this.... her mess let her figure it out and fix it. I'd start protecting yourself and the kids.
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  #28  
Old 11-04-2011, 04:51 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Good news is you past the test or didn't get caught in the trap unfortunately the bad news is she just destroyed the last bit of trust you had. I'm with Atumnaltone on this.... her mess let her figure it out and fix it. I'd start protecting yourself and the kids.
This.

I don't know how you get trust back at this point... maybe if this turned out to be some kind of temporary insanity? But her actions right now are so uncaring and manipulative. Marriage counseling (or just counseling for her) is the only way I can see to possibly make this right. But she's shown she's not committed to you, at least not at present, so in the end the choice of whether or not to stay together may have nothing to do with you.

With that in mind, and the fact that this crazy woman could try to keep you away from your kids... I can't believe I'm suggesting playing on prejudices I think should be abolished, but... start a secret file on her swinging and bdsm activities. If trust is somehow regained, you can delete it. If not, you can use it against her if she tries to block you from the kids.
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  #29  
Old 11-04-2011, 07:32 PM
MichelleZed MichelleZed is offline
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Okay, but give this all a couple of days before you assume DOOM.

So far, it seems to have gone like this:

1) She told you she loved some guy, you had your freakout time and told her to "do what she wanted" but that if she did, she'd be totally ruining your marriage. Freakout #1.

2) You talked to some people online and calmed down and were much more willing to negotiate.

3) Meanwhile, she had a day to react to your freakout, so decided to stage her own freakout. She said she was going to leave because your attitude was totally ruining your marriage. Freakout #2.

4) Step 4. Don't you think you should give your wife another day to see if she, in turn, can calm down from her freakout, just like you did?

Why don't you both take a little break, do something relaxing, and agree to talk about this in a few days?
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  #30  
Old 11-06-2011, 06:21 AM
FireChild FireChild is offline
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I just want to hug you. It really seems like she's a bit of a trainwreck and she's manipulating HARD. It's good that you're willing to be open and figure out where to go from here rationally and it's good that the Master she had was honest with her. D/s isn't for everybody, but for those who it works out for it can really fulfill an emotional need and it's understanding how she can fall for someone who gives her that. That being said submission isn't about giving up your body or crawling around on the floor or making sandwiches naked. It's about trust and respect. You trust your dom to know your physical and emotional limits and respect you enough to stretch them, not break them, for your MUTUAL pleasure. There's (or at least there should be) a lot of care in the relationship. I guess what I'm saying is there is a chance that she could develop feelings for a Dom again at some point. That being said there's difference degrees. Some people have relationships (I had a friend who married her dom), some people pay for it and come to have a sort of friend/therapist dynamic. *shrug* It just depends on the people involved.
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