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  #21  
Old 10-22-2011, 08:19 PM
AnotherConfused AnotherConfused is offline
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Originally Posted by ray View Post
I'm confused. In one post, did you say he said you could pursue other men. Then you say he wants a divorce if you do?
Ray, I was confused too. The upshot seems to be that he doesn't feel like he is in a position to allow or prohibit me from doing what I choose (and I agree) so he is telling me to do what I want, and then, he is telling me that he will be hurt if I do (have sex or other intimacy), possibly enough to end our marriage.
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  #22  
Old 10-22-2011, 09:15 PM
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My policy as of late has been:

Yes=Yes
Maybe=No
No=No

When making a decision in the present, I have been taking anything other than a full yes to mean no. It sounds like he might not be totally with it. Ultimately, it is your choice but he seems to be acting a bit fickle. He should be able to express if he is or is not okay with something when you ask for his opinion. He may be uncertain or testing you or witholding...? There's a difference between discreet poly and messing with your partners head. Giving you conflicting answers would seem like the latter to me. It's not that you need his permission but as your partner he should be able to share his needs with you. You can decide if his needs are something you can meet. He can decide if he can give you what you need to.
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  #23  
Old 10-22-2011, 10:58 PM
AnotherConfused AnotherConfused is offline
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Originally Posted by ray View Post
...It sounds like he might not be totally with it. Ultimately, it is your choice but he seems to be acting a bit fickle. He should be able to express if he is or is not okay with something when you ask for his opinion. He may be uncertain or testing you or witholding...?
I do get the feeling there is some testing going on. Perhaps along with what Mono was saying (thank you Mono) about becoming less invested in our relationship. I think in some ways he wants to leave it up to me so that I can prove to him that I am who he wants me to be. If I stay monogamous, I pass. If I choose intimacy with others knowing full well it will hurt him, then I'm not who he wanted in a wife and he has a concrete reason for ending it. Since he is monogamous and understands the world only from that point of view, I think he may also believe that my intimacy with other men would also prove that he is not who I wanted in a husband.

For now my choice is to remove all physical intimacy from the other relationships. I'm sorely tempted to remove it from my marriage as well, but I know that would harm us. I think it's a desire to punish him by taking away from him what he is, in his indirect way, taking away from my other relationships. Sadly, I don't think he'd really miss it, and I would.
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  #24  
Old 10-22-2011, 11:08 PM
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Oh but there is compromising going on. You are not living to your full relationship potential and neither is he. It isn't a competition and it isn't about one person being a martyr over the other. No one is going to get anywhere if that is how you are seeing it... its about having a list of what is okay and not okay for both of you... what is in between and uncharted and working on that. Finding a balance means there are good boundaries,,, working on that list is making compromises to get to that balance. In your situation that could be a what you do for the rest of your relationship is all I am saying. Try and look at this in the positive rather than the "woe is me".... it isn't helpful. Strive for more positive WITH HIM. He has to look at it this way too... kind of like "I noticed you did this for me and that is why I do this in return..." not "you won't let me do this, so I won't let you do that."

What does that mean "its not right?" that says nothing about what he is feeling. He is not the judge of what is right and wrong. I think I would be asking him to give up on that notion. No one is right or wrong here and it is unfair to approach it that way. I would be asking him to cease from inflicting his control in that way. I think its important he know that he does not own this situation and you are not wrong. You need to believe that here. Its not an argument of right and wrong and if he is arguing that then he is way out of line. Next time you talk about this stuff I would suggest that you request that he not say one word about you being wrong and him being right. He is talking from his culture, not from himself specifically and it just isn't relevant at all.

I would find out what it is that is bothering HIM by asking him directly. Not from anywhere else but inside of him. If it is that he doesn't want you to have sex with others and you have agreed not to then that is that. I think you should go and visit your friend and prove that you will hold up your end of the bargin.

If he does not want you to have close friendships with men, but can go out and have casual sport sex then maybe that would work for you (not what I think he is saying, but that could be the other option to give him). If he doesn't want you to have close male friends or to have sex with them then I think I would be pushing the issue and just doing what works for you. I would chose the option of going to visit the friend for the talk you feel the need to have with him, not have sex, get the closeness you need and come home and see how it goes. I would pick this option because it sounds like he could handle that more than the other.

If you stick to what you say you will do then it shows you have integrity, but if you let someone else dictate what you can and cannot do with that much control then it might just be time to see what happens if you push that. Worst case scenario? Your husband will leave... it might just be that he will see that there is really no threat there.

It sounds like you both need a relationship over haul. It is completely not okay for any partner in a marriage to dictate who their partner is close to as friends. I wouldn't be staying if this is the case. Sorry, but I really think he has to separate his culture from himself first and experience what it is like to think for himself. You seem to be managing and that has nothing to do with your up bringing. Stand tall girl, you have support here for what you are trying to accomplish, so believe in your self and in what you are working towards.
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  #25  
Old 10-23-2011, 01:24 AM
AnotherConfused AnotherConfused is offline
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Thanks Redpepper. It's pretty hard to separate an Indian man from his culture. In his view, he is not being controlling because he is simply stating facts: I am free to choose, and some of my choices could hurt him. I get that.

If we actually listed what was ok and not ok for each of us, his ok would be a monogamous relationship where I did not try to retain male friends if there was any sexual attraction element in the friendship from either party. My ok would be both of us being free to explore romance and intimacy, but probably not sex, with others. As for the uncharted territory in between, his view is that any of it is painful for him, and it's up to me how much pain I'm willing to inflict. I'm inflicting it already, by having feelings for my two friends, and having friendships with them that acknowledge those feelings. And kissing, until now.

I don't think he has come out and said that his feelings are right and mine are wrong, but he has definite beliefs about the meaning of marriage, that leave no room for attraction or flirting with others. He feels like I am trying to redefine the marriage that we entered. Truthfully, neither of us expected that I'd fall in love with anyone else, although if I'd read about polyamory sooner I might have recognized it in my pattern of dating. Fidelity was always a strain in my twenties. I thought it would work once I met the right man, and for a lot of years it did (babies distracted me for a while) but here I am back to feeling romance in more than just one relationship. He feels like I am suddenly changing the game.

I am going to see my friend tomorrow. My husband thought I'd been wishing for an overnight trip, but he's ok with my going for the day. He'll be able to practice trusting me, and I'll be able to practice loving my friend without kissing him, and decide if that is something I can accept.
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  #26  
Old 10-23-2011, 11:45 PM
Wishing Wishing is offline
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I also think he has been clear, but that doesn't mean you know what will happen in the future. I believe you run the risk of divorce if he ever finds out, and if it goes on very long, that is likely. He says that you will remain together until the children are grown. He could change his mind along the way. I think his answers are ambiguous at best. Be careful, especially if the divorce laws in your locality could make it easy for him to gain custody of your children.

You are not in an envious position by any stretch of the imagination.
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  #27  
Old 10-24-2011, 03:27 AM
AnotherConfused AnotherConfused is offline
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So, I went to spend the day with my friend today, and the no kissing business was awkward but manageable. As usual, talking to him brought me lots of clarity, lots of confidence, and lots of sexual frustration. The sum total was me coming home feeling happier.

I realized that it's not so much what I do or don't do with other men that created the problem for me. It's the feeling of disapproval for how I feel. I might be content for a while or longer with keeping these other relationships at a more platonic level, but I don't like to think that my desire to have more is a flaw in my character, from my husband's viewpoint, and that squelching it is a sort of correcting of my ways.

I'm also thinking that I want to focus my energy on making sure that my husband's needs (as he defines them) are met, as well as my children's needs (as I define them, with room for a little compromise towards how my husband sees my role as mother). This has been tricky as I have been bedridden a lot of the past six months, and never quite get my full stamina back before each new relapse of this nasty pericarditis problem I'm having. Assuming I eventually get a grip on my health, and can assure my husband that I can do everything we agree I should do, then I'd like to address again how what I'm not doing (having more intimacy with other men I love) wouldn't have to take away from that. I often think my husband gets more caught up in what he doesn't like me doing, and confuses it with asking for what he does want from me.

Pericarditis: an inflammation of the lining around my heart. My heart hurts because it's beating against its overly tight boundaries. Funny, isn't it?

Last edited by AnotherConfused; 10-24-2011 at 04:19 AM.
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  #28  
Old 10-24-2011, 04:17 AM
AnotherConfused AnotherConfused is offline
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Now we drift back towards DADT. True to form, my husband didn't ask whether or not there'd been kissing when I was with my friend today. I asked him what had been the point of not kissing, if he didn't ask about it anyway. How would it have hurt him if we'd kissed? He wouldn't have known.

He thought for a moment and agreed that it really makes no difference, if he doesn't know about it, never sees it, and I don't let it happen in our own home. That's kissing, at least. A baby step, but one I'm quite happy to take.

Last edited by AnotherConfused; 10-24-2011 at 04:20 AM.
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  #29  
Old 10-24-2011, 05:08 AM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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I hope this comes out ok but I have got to put something out there.

DADT is fine. The energy behind the DADT is worrisome. Just be careful you aren't setting yourself up.

I'll be honest - people say "kissing" is fine but we are all adults here. What does kissing actually entail? Close body contact with grinding pelvises? Hands groping each other. The feeling of the persons arousal through their clothes?

I think anyone who says they can limit this type of energy to the mere touching of mouths is deluding themselves. Kissing is the tip of the iceberg. You have to be prepared to take the DADT to the complete limit in my mind otherwise you will end up in long arguments about what you thought was ok and what he actually meant was ok.

If you're kissing with a DADT policy then you might as well be having intercourse...because that is where this is leading in my opinion.
DADT is fine...but don't be delusional in limiting your intimacy with this other man. You're hubby just has to accept that he is signing off for complete DADT no matter what you do with this guy.

And then you have to do the DADT like a pro. Because if I am right, hearing even a snippet of what is going on will change things for him.
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  #30  
Old 10-24-2011, 10:55 AM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is online now
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AC, this is a tough situation!

Why did you marry him in the first place? I get the sense it was because he was committed to you, and you saw him as a steady stable guy who was a good provider and had the potential to be a good dad. All very well.

But you are missing being with a guy who gets turned on just by being near you, who obviously desires you and actually lets you know it. I feel bad he never puts the moves on you and you always have to initiate sexual relations.

So, he has low to no desire for sex in general and you don't feel all pretty and desirable around him. Men who actually desire you (as well as caring for you deeply emotionally) are a huge temptation.

I get how you feel like a perv for ever having desire for others. My ex used to try and control me in this way as well. You say your h said he'd leave you eventually if you had other relationships, but what about you? Do you fantasize about leaving his emotionless non-sexy ass as well sometimes?
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