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  #21  
Old 10-20-2011, 10:45 PM
bulrush bulrush is offline
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Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
MM,

He wants to end it with her in the dark. Easier for him but not the best thing for him, for her, or for you or your husband.
If his relationship with his gf is certain to end soon, what is to be gained by him revealing the truth that he is poly with another couple? In this case, the truth will only create anger in his gf.

While I support the truth in most cases, I think this one is exceptional.
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  #22  
Old 10-20-2011, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by bulrush View Post
If his relationship with his gf is certain to end soon, what is to be gained by him revealing the truth that he is poly with another couple? In this case, the truth will only create anger in his gf.

While I support the truth in most cases, I think this one is exceptional.
Well then why not just end the relationship now rather than living a lie?
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  #23  
Old 10-20-2011, 11:01 PM
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What if she would be making different choices if she knew? Like, maybe she would have moved already, but she thinks she really has something with this guy, so she keeps finding reasons to delay the move because she's so torn? Maybe the truth would set her free.

But regardless of that possibility, the bottom line is that no one deserves to be lied to about something so fundamental by someone to whom they've entrusted their heart. The fact that the relationship is meant to be ending is completely moot. All relationships end in the end, even if only by death. So while we are together, we owe each other respect.

Sure she'll probably be quite mad. But every secret is at risk of being found out, and she will almost certainly be SO much more angry if it comes out accidentally versus him telling her. Aside from which, you really can NOT discount the safety/std thing... it's a real danger!

Whether you're coming at this from a perspective that's based primarily on practicality, ethicality, or spirituality, I think it works equally well for all three approaches to ask... how would you want to be treated if you were in her position?
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Last edited by AnnabelMore; 10-21-2011 at 03:00 AM.
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  #24  
Old 10-23-2011, 04:02 AM
Moonmama Moonmama is offline
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[QUOTE=redpepper;107163]This man is not poly if you ask me, and nor are you if you willingly entered into this situation with him. Maybe in orientation, but not in lifestyle. This is cheating, hands down. Its very black and white to me; non-monogamy without consent, knowledge, honest and open communication in a relationship is cheating... Non-monogamy that is responsible and considerate with ethics such as empathy, integrity etc. is poly. If you want to know more about what others have said on this then check some of the threads found in a search in the tags for "lessons" and "foundations"

I recognized a person that was in a relationship that was not in alignment with his highest truth, or hers, and I have a very deep intuition and trust in what I feel/know. I know for a fact that cheating happened in this relationship between them, and I KNOW ITS BECAUSE he is poly but wasnt aware that this is what was going on. So instead of being JUDGEMENTAL AND OVERBEARING I created a safe place for him to move from his previously held belief about himself, which is that when he falls in love with a woman he always hurts her in the end because he loves many women, and they usually overlap. In his previous relationships he was denying his true feelings, what he has been told by society was wrong and bad (and apparently by you as well since instead of supporting a young person moving through this unfolding process, you condemn them and basically say they arent welcome because their journey didnt start the same way that yours did!!!) Had I not had a relationship with him, he probably would have continued on the way he was going, which I also think is fine if thats what he chooses. Its not the path I would choose for myself, but my soul lessons are different than his.

Sorry, but "rising above ones ego" just doesn't convince me here. It sounds like a cop out to being invested in someone. To me that means a person has not invested or been moved by a person in terms of bonding. This woman has possibly bonded with this man and he has taken her for a ride by not being responsible in his communication. His heart and sole concern is himself.
I am not attached to this or any relationship. I welcome the companionship of others on my journey, but I am very clear on where I am going. The ego that I am referring to in this way would be from a Buddhist or ascension context. I do not believe that I am the "story of me" that exists in third density. Therefor I have no need to attach "myself" to any particular outcome because there is no one to be attached. This is why I am not afraid of being hurt in this relationship, only helping create the transformation into truth and higher truths. Anyone can walk away from a cheater. That is obviously what you would do. OR you might point the finger and tell them not to do that again. However, if the pain of the hurt he felt and that he had caused others during past occurences didnt heal him of that, nor the judgement of others, perhaps the way to heal that is through love and the safe space to create a non judgemntal relationship and support to help him see what his higher truth was.

It sounds more like you are saying she doesn't have a right to own her emotions if she finds out. I would consider that emotionally abusive actually. If not then it makes me think that you are finding a way to justify his actions in order to sleep okay at night.

She completely has a right to feel whatever comes up for her. However, she knew he wanted to date lots of other women and "fixed him up" enough to make him monogomous, pushing him into a box that made her feel like she could love him under those conditions. Here we have CONDITIONAL LOVE: I only love you if________ and _______. This is also accompanied by feelings of "There is only so much love to go around. I am not making a blanket statement about all monogomous or polyfidelous relationships, I am only referring to this particular relationship. However, I also see this in similar context to being in a monogomous STRAIGHT relationship as you meet someone of the same gender, fall in love and realize you are not straight. It is not the easiest thing to tell your mate that this is what you have discovered. Are they going to be mad? Probably! should you not have allowed yourself that relationship, even though the sudden realization made your soul excited about this new phase of your journey? Does that mean you no longer love your mate? Should you break up with them right away? Tell them first? What if they tell everybody? Are you ready to come out to the world???? This is exactly the same things you could feel discovering that you are poly. Upon further discussion, this turned out to be THE BIGGEST REASON he didnt want to come clean. He was less afraid of what she was going to say, but she was going to tell everyone they both knew and he wasnt sure how he felt about that. There was still time for him to end our relationship. Again, this is an unfolding process, and I am not going to be the one to rip open the rosebud. These things take time. This has been a long time coming for him, this lesson on honesty in relationships.

"Rising above ones ego" is what I would consider as being a flake and irresponsible. I find it more egotistical than acknowledging that we all have egos and that that is healthy. He sounds like a flake to me. And ya, if he is a flake and a lier to her he will be to everyone. Once a cheater gets away with lying and flaking our of communication they always do until they get caught. I dunno, maybe that's okay with you. I certainly would turn me off.

Obviously we are coming from different places. The Ego is not something that I find healthy in MOST people, including yours, as you are so quick to label and judge people in comparison to the "story of you," your ego that you believe you are. I also strongly disagree with your ideas that things are static as nothing in life is unchanging except for the fact that it is always changing. I find it a turn off that you are so quick to judge and label and I am sorry that people are doing the same to you in your life. Your words are a mirror of your internal condition. That would only bother you if you were saying words that you wish were not reflective of yourself.

Have you had a child before? They teach you something about ego and how important it is to have one. Ego is natural and healthy I think, the quest is for me to balance my ego with empathy. Something this man is clueless of by the sound of it.

This is my third child, and I take complete and total responsiblity for all aspects of my child rearing. I do conscious conception, which involves meditating and cleansing by body and past emotions regarding the trauma that occured in my first hospital birth. I do my own prenatal care and I am a spiritual midwife for myself and others. I seek medical care when I need to after researching the risks and benefits of all tests and treatments. I make the best choices for MY PARTICULAR FAMILY from a place of sound knowledge, intuition, love and compassion. Thank you for your concern.

Before we decided to have a baby we were all clear that should someone feel like they are not inclined to continue on in this relationship, that they are always more than welcome to journey in a way that best supports THEIR soul's desire. I am completely comfortable raising my children without either one, as I know that my children are also souls that consciously chose us as parents before they were born, knowing where we were in our soul journeys and what particular issues we were facing at the time. I also might add that I also trust my children's judgement on what is right for them. We have a parenting style that permits each soul to be honored in the choices that they make. To many that would seem incredibly permissive, but I see my role as a parent to be that of a loving guide,and also as a student, as my children have already taught me more about patience than I have learned anywhere else In my view, children come in as awakened souls in new physical bodies, I find many of the ways people treat children to be demeaning, inlcuding the routine use of diapers without offering the child opportunities to use the potty right from birth. Again, a different view than many others, but it doesnt make it right or wrong, just different.

Last edited by Moonmama; 10-23-2011 at 04:18 AM.
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  #25  
Old 10-23-2011, 04:03 AM
Moonmama Moonmama is offline
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[/QUOTE]Have you ever been cheated on in the way he is? Have you deeply loved and cared for someone and had them destroy your trust of anyone because you learned that everything you knew was a lie? I suggest you take a look at some of the threads found under the tag "cheating" in the search engine too. It might help to find some empathy for this woman. No one deserves to be treated with so much disrespect. I don't care what she has done or who she is. Everyone deserves honesty and consideration. Without those basic things there is no love in the world and no hope of anyone ever healing from the damage we cause each other. I suggest that making that your spiritual goal is more healthy rather than the "rising above your ego" goal.[/QUOTE]

I have indeed been cheated on and that was part of the journey to discover the "who" the felt hurt, and what it was that hurt me. I discovered through buddhist meditation practices and specifically tonglen, the practice of connecting to the suffering of the collective consciousness, and breathing it in, transforming it to love and exhaling it. There is nothing that having trust can make secure for you, not even in marriage. You can trust someone but I would rather love someone without condition than have to "trust" them. Trust is a promise. Promises only work until the day that the souls who made the promise undergoes change, which is ALWAYS going to happen. Nothing is changeless, and I am happy to release my "need" for trust. When you release needs you have a feeling of freefalling, there is no secure ground, but THAT IS THE TRUE REALITY <3 ITs not a bad thing, its beautiful. From this void we can create fresh in every moment.

Again, I am not saying in any way that I was desiring to create the experience of lying to her, I was opposed to that but ultimately it was his relationship. I am not here to make decisions for him. I do wonder if you truly believe that this pattern of his would have healed by giving him the ultimatum as was suggested (which would not work on my end as I do not care to put those types of limitations on relationships! So therefor I would have had to act in untruth. Also, for both him and I and my husband, to not explore our relationship would have been lying to ourselves. Betrayal of the self is the highest betrayal of all. We are all human and everyone makes mistakes and that is how we learn. I still do not see the situation as having healed the dishonesty pattern had it not unfolded the way it has. I am assuming you must be coming from a place of having healed all your human attributes as well, such as name calling and judging and condemming others for not doing things as you would have done them. Without these basic considerations there is no hope of healing the damage we have done to eachother

In resolution to all this, after having a loving and supportive conversation in which we discussed his biggest fears regarding all this was actually a fear of being outed as poly, and being called a weirdo or other lovely names as humans can be so quick to do, he finally found the resolution to share the situation.

Obviously there was a LOT of anger the first day but they have moved into the second day and now the she wishes he had told her sooner, that it was just the lie of it that really bothers her. He says this was the hardest lesson he has ever had. He feels now that he was being weak before, and that is was way worse in his mind. She has gone and told all their friends and he is starting to deal with that now they are thinking he is a freak, but has decided to try radical honesty as a new policy. I am grateful to have shared this journey with him and wonder what the future may hold as you never know. There could be a new woman in my life

I would like to thank the few of you who didnt jump up in judgment for holding the space, and I would also like to thank those of you who were very harsh. I find teachers everywhere.

Namaste <3

Last edited by Moonmama; 10-23-2011 at 04:23 AM.
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  #26  
Old 10-23-2011, 04:15 AM
Moonmama Moonmama is offline
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Originally Posted by bulrush View Post
If his relationship with his gf is certain to end soon, what is to be gained by him revealing the truth that he is poly with another couple? In this case, the truth will only create anger in his gf.

While I support the truth in most cases, I think this one is exceptional.
This was the main reason I posted to begin with. This is what I was struggling with, as he could have ended it without telling her but he would still be continuing along the "safe" path of not being percieved by others as he truly is. I was hoping that he would choose the truth over ending it right away, as I do believe there was something to be learned in a very big way. BUT it was his choice, his lesson. He chose to wait much longer than I had hoped, but it made the lesson even larger and had much more impact on him. I do hope we can all move to a place of not needing to create these types of situations again and again in our lives in order to make progress, but that seems to be the case. Bless my future mistakes, I pray I only make them once.
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  #27  
Old 10-23-2011, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmama View Post
. . . I find many of the ways people treat children to be demeaning, inlcuding the routine use of diapers without offering the child opportunities to use the potty right from birth.
This has me curious. A newborn can't even sit up, so wouldn't the baby fall into the potty?
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  #28  
Old 10-23-2011, 02:18 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
This has me curious. A newborn can't even sit up, so wouldn't the baby fall into the potty?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elimination_communication

Moonglow, all that sounds nicely worked out except for one thing. Your being fluid bonded with your lover, but not knowing if he is practicing safe sex with his other gf, and not knowing whether she is, with him or with others. The impact that could have on yourself and your unborn baby should disease result... what are your feelings?
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  #29  
Old 10-23-2011, 04:57 PM
Moonmama Moonmama is offline
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He is Mr. Condom. They use protection, and he always has them all over the house. Obviously that is not the case for baby making we have been cohabitating for over a year (even before this relationship ever began and he always has condoms. Since he has been living here we have all been together every single day. The date last week was the first he has been on outside of the relationship. Also I am very connected and intuitive, it's extremely hard for anyone to lie to me as I feel it right away. I have no need to fear. I have also done the standard blood workup for pregnancy as I'm rh- and that needs monitoring. I am extrememely healthy and baby is growing so fast, we wonder about the possibility of twins <3 I don't do ultrasounds of any type so we won't know until I can pick up heat tones with a fetoscope after 20 weeks.
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  #30  
Old 10-24-2011, 11:19 AM
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Oh, for some reason I'd thought he wasn't practicing safe(r) sex with his other gfs.

So, it sounds like things have been cleared up between bf and his other gf, but now she's immediately blabbed it to everyone and gossip abounds. Perhaps he will drift away from that crowd now and focus on you and your husband and the upcoming birth (perhaps of twins).
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