Bringing Up Poly

[onoma]

So I broke up with my g/f last Friday. Then we broke up again last night. Then we had great sex.

The problem: She wants to start trying for kids in less than a year. She's my first real girlfriend and second women I've slept with (I'm 34,) and since we moved in together things haven't really gone great. Lot's of fighting, and I have worries about how well we'd work long term and especially with raising kids.

So for me, kids means:
1) No chance at sleeping with other women ever, for the rest of my life. (Along with less opportunity for travel, exploration, trying different cities to live in.)

2) I might end up "chained" to a woman who makes me miserable if things don't improve.

The thing is, I'm focused on #2 which makes me say I'm not ready for kids. I don't even necessarily see the point of an open relationship, let alone procreation, if we'll be miserable together.

BUT she's focused only on "not ready for kids." She doesn't see the point of working on our relationship if I'm not ready for kids.

So last night when she tells me I just need to tell her how we can fix this, and that she'd do _anything_ to make me happy, it was all I could think about. I just needed to say that I'd be ready for kids if things worked better between us. Except that I'd still be concerned about #1... so the real answer is: I'd be more ready for kids if things worked better for us and I knew I'd have a shot at other experiences (including other women.)

Trying not to let this post get too long, but I'm really bad at that... so:

Increased Difficulty: She's Catholic. Not Catholic enough to wait until marriage, but I think an open relationship would be more of a problem for her belief system.

ID2: She's specifically said in the past that she would not want an open relationship.

However: She's always the one who's brought it up (to say she wouldn't.) There are other times she's said something that made me think about it.

Examples: Just as we were moving in together the whole "other women" thing came up and she offered to let me be single for a while.

We were watching Desperate Housewives and one girl hired a stripper for her husband, and my gf just joked that I'd enjoy that.

Then the other night on Ambien she actually started talking about what I'd want to do if she brought a "sex worker" home to me.



TL;DR Version:

So how does one bring an open relationship up to their religious girlfriend who's stated she doesn't want to in the past but has seemingly hinted that she might?

[nycindie]

Since you think you'd be miserable with her, do both of yourselves a favor and move on.

[onoma]

I may have given the wrong impression. Things aren't great now, but they were really good before we moved in together. She's also had a rough couple years, and by her estimation isn't quite acting herself yet... so I'm not sure we'd be miserable together. I'm just not happy now and need time to see things change... but she doesn't want to give me that time because she wants to have kids soon.

Not to say that you're wrong... but I think I am interested in an open relationship and it might help us out as well.

[nycindie]

Originally Posted by onoma

I think I am interested in an open relationship and it might help us out as well.

Having an open relationship does not fix problems in an existing relationship. The relationship MUST be solidly grounded, happy, and healthy BEFORE opening it up. Otherwise, you'd just be heading toward disaster. That fact cannot be stressed enough. It does sound like you two are not compatible at present, and I don't think adding other people while hanging onto something that isn't working would help. Look at and resolve what's wrong now without looking elsewhere. You need to give this relationship time to be working really well before even remotely considering poly.

[AnnabelMore]

What's wrong with the approach of total honesty, just laying all your feelings on the table and letting her decide if she can handle it? If you're not able to do that, you're not ready for kids OR poly, both of which will test your relationship and your combustion skills to the limit.

[AnnabelMore]

Oh man, I could edit that last post so it says "comunication skills" like I meant it to, but "combustion skills" is way too funny to change. Thanks, autocorrect!

[nycindie]

I did laugh out loud at that, thinking it was what you wanted to say.

[onoma]

I thought it was maybe slang for something... heh.

There's nothing wrong with honesty. I'm really trying to figure out the best way to present the idea. Like I said, I mentioned once shortly before we moved in that I worried about missing out on other women... though I guess I've avoided bringing it up since. I don't want her to think it's because she's not good enough...

[PipeDreamer]

Originally Posted by onoma

The problem: She wants to start trying for kids in less than a year.

If you two are not stable, do you really want to rush into having kids together? I don't have kids of my own yet, but I have talked to several people who thought having kids would fix and solidify their relationship. They still split up/got divorced.

Originally Posted by onoma

So for me, kids means:
1) No chance at sleeping with other women ever, for the rest of my life. (Along with less opportunity for travel, exploration, trying different cities to live in.)

2) I might end up "chained" to a woman who makes me miserable if things don't improve.

1) I disagree with this. Maybe you can work that out with her if she is receptive to your ideas. It sounds like she is at least willing to discuss the topic. As far as less opportunity for travel, etc., people make it happen. Yeah, it can be more difficult and expensive, but if it's important to you, you can find a way.

2) Yep. If I were in your position, I would think long and hard about this. That chain will be attached for 2 decades at least. After that, you will start to get some freedom.

Originally Posted by onoma

So last night when she tells me I just need to tell her how we can fix this, and that she'd do _anything_ to make me happy, it was all I could think about. I just needed to say that I'd be ready for kids if things worked better between us.

When I hear someone say that they would do anything to make me happy or that I just need to say such-and-such to make things better, my hair stands up, my spidey sense starts tingling, and I start eyeballing the door/window, whatever to make an escape. (I am happily married and have been with the same woman for 7 years, btw.)
In my experience, the girls I dated that used lines like this were just being manipulative and I stuck around thinking it would work out and it only prolonged the unfortunate experience. I can't say I would change it though, because I feel I learned from it in the long run.

If you are not ready for kids now, you are simply not ready for kids. Telling her you would be ready for kids if things were better between the two of you seems like kidding yourself for a short term gain. How long should things be good before you start trying to have kids?
Putting the pressure on for making babies sounds like a bad idea if things are not going really well. I am in my early 30s and I wanted to have kids in my early 20s. Well, I didn't get what I wanted. Shucks. I am still alive and happy. My wife and I are specifically choosing not to have kids at this time because we don't feel we are ready yet... for various reasons. Sometimes I want to and she doesn't, Sometimes it's the other way around. We talk about it, but then decide, "Nah, let's wait a bit more." I'd love to have kids while I am a bit younger, but it may not be in the cards for me. It may not be in the cards for your girlfriend either.

Originally Posted by onoma

Increased Difficulty: She's Catholic. Not Catholic enough to wait until marriage, but I think an open relationship would be more of a problem for her belief system.

Both my wife and I were raised Catholic and we are seriously considering polyamory. After a lot of mulling and idea sorting, I brought some of my ideas to her and she was understanding of it all. Besides, Catholics are all about taking things in moderation. Take each other in moderation and start another relationship in moderation. Woot!

Originally Posted by onoma

ID2: She's specifically said in the past that she would not want an open relationship.

I may be nitpicking here, but an open relationship is different than a poly relationship, no? I don't think I would like to see my wife running around with just whomever, should she decide to experience other men. We have talked about her having another committed partner and I feel much better about that. She feels the same way with the tables turned.

Originally Posted by onoma

So how does one bring an open relationship up to their religious girlfriend who's stated she doesn't want to in the past but has seemingly hinted that she might?

It sounds like she has brought it up a few times. Maybe test the waters a bit more by hinting at it and then carefully start moving into headier aspects of the topic. It all depends on how well you know each other. Will she blow a gasket if you start talking about this, will she accept what you have to say and think about it, or will she do something else?

My $0.92.

[onoma]

Originally Posted by PipeDreamer

If you two are not stable, do you really want to rush into having kids together?

I'm not, no. :P

She's a few years older than me though. The biological clock is ticking pretty loudly for her... she's convinced she has to start within a year or miss her chance.

When I hear someone say that they would do anything to make me happy or that I just need to say such-and-such to make things better, my hair stands up, my spidey sense starts tingling, and I start eyeballing the door/window, whatever to make an escape. (I am happily married and have been with the same woman for 7 years, btw.)
In my experience, the girls I dated that used lines like this were just being manipulative and I stuck around thinking it would work out and it only prolonged the unfortunate experience. I can't say I would change it though, because I feel I learned from it in the long run.

As a general rule I don't think she's manipulative. If anything I think it's hard for us both to separate... but I could be wrong.

If you are not ready for kids now, you are simply not ready for kids. Telling her you would be ready for kids if things were better between the two of you seems like kidding yourself for a short term gain. How long should things be good before you start trying to have kids?

I don't want to raise kids in the situation the way it is now. We're fighting on a weekly basis, and sometimes I feel like we're adversarial with each other. Worse yet I think our flaws are similar and we feed into each others' weaknesses. BUT, she's gone through some stuff in the last couple years and has been depressed but coming out of it. So I keep thinking things will change/improve. We were really getting along great before moving in together or I wouldn't have done it...

Both my wife and I were raised Catholic and we are seriously considering polyamory. After a lot of mulling and idea sorting, I brought some of my ideas to her and she was understanding of it all. Besides, Catholics are all about taking things in moderation. Take each other in moderation and start another relationship in moderation. Woot!

Good to know, and congrats!

I may be nitpicking here, but an open relationship is different than a poly relationship, no? I don't think I would like to see my wife running around with just whomever, should she decide to experience other men. We have talked about her having another committed partner and I feel much better about that. She feels the same way with the tables turned.

I don't know if there is a difference... but I think I'd want something similar to what you describe. I don't think she's at all the one-night-stand type of girl, and I'm not sure I could manage that either really.

Ideally I'd just be able to date some women I find interesting without looking for a permanent relationship. Basically, what I should have done when I was 20 but I have a girlfriend or wife to come home to.

It sounds like she has brought it up a few times. Maybe test the waters a bit more by hinting at it and then carefully start moving into headier aspects of the topic. It all depends on how well you know each other. Will she blow a gasket if you start talking about this, will she accept what you have to say and think about it, or will she do something else?

My $0.92.

But how do I hint?


On the bringing it up part... the other night we went to an art gallery event. We were sitting in a corner and I went to get us something. When I came back my gf tells me this other couple was dancing in front of her doing "bad things" and the guy kept checking her out. She thought maybe they "thought she would be into sharing" or something, but seemed to sound like obviously she wouldn't. So really... not sure. Whenever she brings it up directly she just says she wouldn't...