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  #11  
Old 10-09-2011, 03:09 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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It's so sad to think of someone being stuck with an emotionally manipulative partner because they can't handle being alone. I mean, would you stay with her for the rest of your life in order to never be alone, or would you go behind her back to seek another potential romantic partner who you could dump her for with no time gap in between?

Learning to make it alone can impart immeasurable benefits in terms of self-confidence and self-knowledge. Do you have any close friends with whom you could stay, who would be willing to give you extra support if you left this woman? I know that's a lot to consider asking of a friend, I'm just trying to brainstorm solutions...
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  #12  
Old 10-11-2011, 04:57 PM
Darknyss Darknyss is offline
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Wow, so very many responses to reply back to I've got my work cut out for me this morning, it seems :P I shall give it the old college try, provided my boss doesn't come hounding me to...actually do some work for a change, you know.

@MichelleZed-It really is kind of looking like that to me sometimes too. It just really startled me and hurt that she jumped into this so readily and when I explained to her what polyamory was and how a good realtionship could or should look like that she so readily agreed to it. Then to make a more or less complete reversal of the whole premise, well....

@Sagency-I know that I *can* get dates with other women, I've had a decent amount of girlfriends,fwb's, etc for a nerdy dude. It's just finding someone who's reasonably compatible that is the issue, or at least what it seems to be. They'll be interested in all my interests but wouldn't touch a poly relationship with a 10 ft. pole, or poly, but their interests and mine clash completely, or both things are good but they have some vastly annoying habit, or mental issue, or something. It's always something lol.

I agree that the only-when-I-say-so thing is controlling, as is the "Big Girlfriend IS watching you." issue. It wouldn't be out of the norm at all for a mono relationship, but I heard a poly person say once "When you(monogamous person) block my exit, the *only* thing I want IS the exit." That stuck with me, as it's often how I feel. You can love me and care for me as I will for you, but you CANNOT own me. I own me, no one else.

By the way, were the prostitutes the creepy part of that? If so, why are they creepy in particular? As long as things like safer sex is practiced and you at least do *some* research, I'd imagine the risks are no worse than your average hookup at a local bar or what have you. (note: probably talking out of my ass, I don't drink, or go to bars) I will try to reduce the amount of crazy though. This is a rough spot to do it from right now, but hopefully soon things will be better.

@BlackUnicorn-The first part, totally agree. No one can really know how poly is gonna strike them till they experience it firsthand, and this was her first exposure to the idea in a bf/gf context.

Depending on her financially might be a little strongly worded. I need her help right now because of the divorce with my ex-wife and trying to get my kids back and make it look like things are reasonably stable at my house...were it not for all the extra issues going on, I could take care of myself and my kids. I have a job, I make a decent enough salary I suppose for this area. I'm not a bum and depend on her for everything, I go out and work every day. I'm not trying to be all defensive, I just don't want you guys to get this idea that I'm like "sure girl, you can move in. Now, pay all my bills for me and let me sit back and watch tv!" :P

The password thing, I gave it to her because we were playing a facebook game together. Nearly all my passwords are the same and she needed to log into my fb account to help her on the game and I was being lazy at that second. So I was like "sure, here's my password, no big deal, not like you're gonna use it to spy on me or anything like that, right?"

She makes it a big deal that I have always had her passwords to her accounts and could look at anything I liked in them whether good or bad, about me or not. I don't though, because I don't really *want* to see what she's saying about me if she is. It's just an added source of stress I don't need. I've seen a few of her messages left up when I got home and they were complaining about me and saying "I don't know if I can do this anymore..." to a friend of hers when she was telling me the day before that things were great and we'd find a way to make things work. It bothered me some, but it wasn't world ending. I just thought it would be better to not know.

On the last bit, maybe I just haven't had the right kind of relationships yet, but aren't *all* relationships based on one controlling the other, or swapping up for the driver's seat at times? In monogamy, it tends to be the whole "If you sleep with anyone else, I will leave you!" that I know so well. With someone else, it might be "if you can't get/keep a job, I'll leave you!" Any number of factors, but all leading to the same end of path. Do what I say, or I'm gone.

The therapy thing, I've said I'm gonna go, and then I make plans to do so, and then there's a million reasons why I can't...not the first of which is that google tells me that there is really no cure for those with bpd. There's some help, sure, something along the lines of exposure therapy for people with phobias like "Go, and be alone, for longer and longer time periods until you're cured!" When I hear that, it's kinda funny. Take out the alone bit, and replace the issue with being burned by a fire. "Go, and expose yourself to hotter fire for longer periods of time until you are immune to fire!" Sorry. I really think I am funnier in my own head :P

A note to everyone, don't take my silliness as that I'm disregarding your advice or that I don't appreciate it. I do. I just...I dunno, I tend to act silly when serious subjects are invoked. Easier to work with, I guess.

@redpepper-I could totally see her doing the blackmail thing. She outright said when we were having one of our really big "I'm leaving you! No, please stay with me!" fights that "You have to consider, would you rather have all these outside people that are not going to stay with you forever and are all going to leave or break your heart, or the one person who will always be here for you and love you with all her heart and try her best to give you anything you want?" I was thinking, but could not say, "If you loved me, you would love all of me, and honor the terms set out in the beginning of this relationship, that we were not going to be exclusive partners, that our relationship would by necessity be of a polyamorous nature, etc..." Probably best that I didn't. She would've walked out right then and there...

The rest of your advice is good as well, I'm just not sure how to even implement it. I have my own place, it's my house that she moved into, not the other way around. She was living about 1 1/2 hours away in a little one bedroom apt with herself, a friend, the guy that was actually renting the apt and her four kids. I was trying to help her out by living with me, I had plenty of room at my house that wasn't being used, and I got an excellent gf out of the deal, I thought that was a pretty cool win/win for both of us. So it'd be sort of hard to have my own place now, given that she's already there.

I have my own finances, but I just barely make enough to keep things afloat, and certainly not enough to hire a lawyer and pay for a divorce that's sure to be contested with two kids custody at stake. Their mother will fight me tooth and nail, don't you doubt. :P

I tend to be a stay at home and play video games and M:tg kinda guy in my off time, hence the lack of friends. So generally whatever I'm doing, she's right there with me. I don't want her to control me, true, but life is a long lonely road when there's literally *no one* that you can talk to, share interests with, etc. Thanks for the well wishes though

@Magdlyn-I hear ya. I have nearly all of those issues going, always have, as far back as I can remember, save the self harming and substance abuse. Never had any issues with those two at least. So mood stabilizers and anti anxiety meds would make me be monogamous? I don't know honestly, I'm just asking. I've never taken any psych meds, nor had any personal experience with those who have. If so, it might be something to bear in mind.

@Carma-It's not courage, it's more just a "just don't care and wish there wasn't so much wrong with me that I can't find the relationship I'm really looking for" type thing. I wish it was courage, then I could look all flashy for the ladies Why hello there sexy girls, didn't notice you standing there... *does muscle poses for like 10 mins*

I've done a (admittedly I'm probably way out of my depth) bit of research on the treatment for bpd and it seems like there really isn't much help to be had is why I walk around like "eh, onward, nothing to be done about this..." attitude. I totally wish there was a magic pill that made all...this, whatever it is, go away. Thank you for the vote of support, guess you guys/gals on the net is better than talking to no one at all.

@AnnabelMore-I'm very, very conflicted on this issue. I've thought of both of those solutions, and what they would mean for my life. They both lean towards me being mostly unhappy for all of my life, but I'm beginning to wonder if everyone isn't unhappy and just grins and bears it as best they can. Maybe that's just the way things are supposed to work...

As far as the friends thing, unfortunately, no. I have no friends, much less close ones. I had some, a long time ago, but they're long gone with the fading of high school days. Besides, this isn't something you could ask of a friend, I don't think. Not as a guy, anyway. I can say things to you guys, because we're all just voices talking in the darkness between electrons. Couldn't talk about any of this to someone who knows me, and could use it against me later. I can hear the simpsons style Nelson "HA-HA"s from here already at a guy who shows any weakness. This is the south, and all of us are supposed to be tough as nails and whatnot.

@everyone-Thank you all for your replys, and advice, and for, well, giving a damn. It's appreciated, much.

PS: If there are any edits needed to this post, please let me know, since I'm not a regular, I don't know all the rules/common things that are necessary to make the post easy to read and all.
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  #13  
Old 10-11-2011, 06:34 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Quote:
Magdlyn-I hear ya. I have nearly all of those issues going, always have, as far back as I can remember, save the self harming and substance abuse. Never had any issues with those two at least. So mood stabilizers and anti anxiety meds would make me be monogamous?
Haha, no. But being healthier in mind and spirit would help you relate better to people in general. My daughter has gotten lots of help for her condition over the past 2-3 years. And she seems much sicker than you, because of her substance abuse issues, and ensuing rages and reckless behavior, she's been hospitalized at least a dozen times.

Quote:
I don't know honestly, I'm just asking. I've never taken any psych meds, nor had any personal experience with those who have. If so, it might be something to bear in mind.
Well, the first thing to do is find a therapist who can help you to determine if they are indicated.

Quote:
It's not courage, it's more just a "just don't care and wish there wasn't so much wrong with me that I can't find the relationship I'm really looking for" type thing. I wish it was courage, then I could look all flashy for the ladies Why hello there sexy girls, didn't notice you standing there... *does muscle poses for like 10 mins*
LOL

Quote:
I've done a (admittedly I'm probably way out of my depth) bit of research on the treatment for bpd and it seems like there really isn't much help to be had is why I walk around like "eh, onward, nothing to be done about this..." attitude. I totally wish there was a magic pill that made all...this, whatever it is, go away. Thank you for the vote of support, guess you guys/gals on the net is better than talking to no one at all.
*hugs*
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  #14  
Old 10-11-2011, 06:37 PM
Minxxa Minxxa is offline
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Hey there!

I didn't have time to post much, but I did want to say that Borderline PD can definitely be helped with DBT (Dialectical Behavior Therapy). Basically it just teaches you skills to learn how to feel your emotions, and deal with them without automatically reacting and letting your thoughts spin you into a cycle of doom.

You can google it, but it has a LOT of success. Most of the idea that Borderline PD can't be helped is not because it can't be done, but most borderline people don't go to therapy, and if they do they tend not to stick with it (or with one therapist).

If you realize you have some emotional stuff you WANT to fix, and you stick to it, you could definitely see a lot of benefit for yourself. You may always still have the thought/emotion process, but you'll know how to deal with it and see that it's under your own control.

I just wanted to toss that out there...
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  #15  
Old 10-11-2011, 07:03 PM
Darknyss Darknyss is offline
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I had read some about dbt, but from what I could gather, it was likened to exposure therapy, which is why I wasn't so sure it would work. Exposure therapy doesn't seem like it would do much on the surface other than make you face your fears, something that most of us probably aren't that good at...Actually, that might've been cognitive behavioral therapy that I was reading about, I tend to get those two confused, but they're sort of the same thing, or rather dbt is a branch off of cbt, I think. I guess it couldn't hurt to find someone to talk to when I have monies, and see what can be done about this. But as soon as I mention poly, don't most therapists tend to diagnose that as an illness in and of itself? "Oh, well, you're polyamorous, so there *must* be something wrong in your head, everyone knows that monogamy is the only way!"

Last edited by Darknyss; 10-11-2011 at 07:09 PM.
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  #16  
Old 10-11-2011, 08:30 PM
Minxxa Minxxa is offline
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No, it's not about exposure therapy. It's actually much closer to buddhist teachings-- of mindfulness. To feel the emotion and how it is in your body and let it go, instead of then thinking "I'm mad. It's so and so's fault. They don't really love me." etc. etc.... which continues the feeling, makes it worse and then turns it into something that isn't even based on reality.

There's a workbook you can get online the DBT workbook (I got one through Amazon). I highly recommend getting one and just taking a good look so you can see what it's about.

It's not about just exposing yourself and "dealing". It gives you actual tools to deal with emotions better.

A good therapist will really make a big difference though. I'd look for a therapist who specializes in DBT specifically, then question them and find one that is at least open to poly, if not experienced with it.

My counselor does DBT and specializes in GLBT, BDSM and poly clients. They are out there, you just have to do a little research and ask them.

Also... there's nothing wrong with (and a lot of good can come from), being up front with your counselor and telling them you suspect you MAY have borderline personality disorder. They will be better at figuring out if you do, or if you just have some other issues, etc. (Interestingly, ADHD shares a lot of the same symptoms as BPD, with a few differences, though.)

It's no different than going to the doctor and telling them what's hurting so they can check into it and help you fix it.
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  #17  
Old 10-11-2011, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknyss View Post
By the way, were the prostitutes the creepy part of that? If so, why are they creepy in particular? As long as things like safer sex is practiced and you at least do *some* research, I'd imagine the risks are no worse than your average hookup at a local bar or what have you...
Don't know what sagency was referring to, but on my part, that bit stood out too.

1) It sounds controlling and dysfunctional as hell. Your gf would be calling all the shots, setting the stage, the time, and the script. She would be unhappy going along with it because she is unhappy with non-monogamy in general, and you would be unhappy going along with it because you are unhappy of being controlled in general.

2) It smacks of issues with sex, in that you are so needy of promiscuous (in the original meaning of the word, which I believe to be seeking out multiple sexual partners for the sake of having a constant flood of new sexual partness, to a point where erotic relationships that last a while grow stale and restlessness sets in) sex that you are willing to do ANYTHING, go with the most absurd scenarios, to cater to the two fears which consume your life; the fear of being alone and the fear of being controlled in some way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknyss View Post
On the last bit, maybe I just haven't had the right kind of relationships yet, but aren't *all* relationships based on one controlling the other, or swapping up for the driver's seat at times? In monogamy, it tends to be the whole "If you sleep with anyone else, I will leave you!" that I know so well. With someone else, it might be "if you can't get/keep a job, I'll leave you!" Any number of factors, but all leading to the same end of path. Do what I say, or I'm gone.
I would venture this is your fear talking. No, healthy relationships are not like that, be they mono or poly. Healthy relationships are based on negotiation, honest communication and respect for self and others. People cannot be controlled with the threat of one partner leaving if they truly and honestly believe that they will not die should their current relationship end. Feel enormously sad, hopeless and lost? Yes, but not actually perish.

In sum, in a healthy relationship, one partner does not use the threat of leaving, or violence, or suing for sole custody, to force the other partner to do something they wouldn't otherwise you. They just leave. Constantly bringing up the threat of leaving is a sign of emotional blackmail and violence.

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Originally Posted by Darknyss View Post
"Go, and expose yourself to hotter fire for longer periods of time until you are immune to fire!"
Unlike fire, being single will. Not. Actually. Kill. You.

Really, it won't. And that's what exposure therapy is all about. Learning that even when you are faced with something you fear, you. Will. Survive.

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Originally Posted by Darknyss View Post
A note to everyone, don't take my silliness as that I'm disregarding your advice or that I don't appreciate it. I do. I just...I dunno, I tend to act silly when serious subjects are invoked. Easier to work with, I guess.
Not at all. I'm not a person totally without a sense of humour, but I feel strong empathy towards your situation and want to help bring up the serious subjects.

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Originally Posted by Darknyss View Post
Probably best that I didn't. She would've walked out right then and there...
She would've have walked away, and then what? Really, what would have happened?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknyss View Post
I've done a (admittedly I'm probably way out of my depth) bit of research on the treatment for bpd and it seems like there really isn't much help to be had is why I walk around like "eh, onward, nothing to be done about this..." attitude.
This is a self-fulfilling prophecy. You start to attribute everything you experience as difficult to your incurable disease, and in the end, it's not really you who is responsible for the stuff you do, it's the disease, and since it cannot be helped, you will just suffer till the end of your life.

Most behaviour, including thought patterns and emotional responses, is learned, and can thus be unlearned. Take the word of someone who is writing this from a shared laptop, and who three years ago was too anxious to be even in the same room with a computer.
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  #18  
Old 10-11-2011, 10:37 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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If your concern about therapy is that you're not so sure it'll work... well... what if it does?? Isn't it worth a try, on the off chance that your life could be better than this? Even if it only helped a little, what could be more valuable than your mental health and resilience? No more excuses! Go! Go!
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:06 PM
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So you are owned by this woman and are not willing to change it... That's what it sounds like. Wow. Well, good luck. I don't know what else to tell you that others haven't.

For the record? I would of said this, "If you loved me, you would love all of me, and honor the terms set out in the beginning of this relationship, that we were not going to be exclusive partners, that our relationship would by necessity be of a polyamorous nature, etc..." and maybe she would of left. This is exactly where you have let this woman manipulate you... Because you are afraid.
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:14 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Quote:
On the last bit, maybe I just haven't had the right kind of relationships yet, but aren't *all* relationships based on one controlling the other, or swapping up for the driver's seat at times? In monogamy, it tends to be the whole "If you sleep with anyone else, I will leave you!" that I know so well. With someone else, it might be "if you can't get/keep a job, I'll leave you!" Any number of factors, but all leading to the same end of path. Do what I say, or I'm gone.
No, that is not healthy. Long term relationships take a lot of negotiation and compromise and unconditional love. Hanging that threat over someone's head is manipulative and ... immature.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

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