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  #21  
Old 10-02-2011, 03:11 AM
cuddlecakes cuddlecakes is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
it seems to me you want to keep a really short leash on your gf and in ways that are somewhat unrealistic or a tad overbearing.
Sorry, I disagree.

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I don't know why it's necessary that she call you after every date.
Because we both want it?

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Why isn't it enough to know she's dating other people and will inform you about it if and when she is moved to do so?
Because that's not how we work? When I go on dates she wants to talk afterward and hear even more detail than I do.
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As long as when she's with you, you have her full attention?
I don't. I'm in her bed but she's currently chatting with the new boy online.
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Also, do you see other people, too? That might help relieve some of your worrying about her.
Just a few awkward dates. :/ My other thread is about that.

But again, this is not why I created this thread. Maybe I should create another thread for people to criticize my girlfriend and me?
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  #22  
Old 10-02-2011, 04:14 AM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Originally Posted by cuddlecakes View Post
But again, this is not why I created this thread. Maybe I should create another thread for people to criticize my girlfriend and me?
Why DID you create this thread then? It's in a discussion area, not in a blog area, so people are allowed to criticize. You keep dancing around this issue of how you have rules but don't want to call them rules, and she's breaking the rules, and you want us to tell you why you have them and what the "consequences" should be. It's like you're throwing little bits and pieces of information out there and people are responding and you're getting offended.

What are you looking for from us exactly? If you don't like the answers you're getting, ask some different fucking questions.
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  #23  
Old 10-02-2011, 06:18 AM
Casey Casey is offline
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We have one rule. It is a rule that applied to mono and poly relationships equally.
Safe Sex.
If Safe Sex does not occur, and I find out about it, unspeakable consequences will arise.

Oh, Shannon has expressed a preference I don't sleep with any of their relatives (have to adopt a look but don't touch attitude here, a particular cousin is VERY nice to look at). It is not a "rule", but it is something I shall respect.

A long list of rules would just be confusing. And sometimes rules are harder to follow for other parties. I am better at telling Shannon where I am and what time I am due home. I am naturally more organized (and have a car so don't rely on public transport, and always have credit on my phone!). Having a rule stating that I must be told where/when/who would just result in grief.

If rules are being broken frequently, more conversation is needed. And a consideration of compromises for both sides.
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  #24  
Old 10-02-2011, 08:51 AM
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rory rory is offline
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Originally Posted by cuddlecakes View Post
I feel like if you're not going to break up over rule-breaking (and I probably wouldn't unless it was really egregious), then what's the point in having them?
Well, there you go. I'm not sure the thinking "these are the rules we have set up and if they are broken, punishment will follow" is very useful or workable in relationships. If you want to have that, then you'll have to go through with whatever you want the punishment to be. You've already stated that you won't break up over something minor. But if you try to punish somebody you're in relationship with you'll hurt both of you (say, not talking to her; she won't get to talk to you and will possibly feel hurt but you won't get to talk with her either). Plus, it's sort of something you wouldn't want or need in adult relationships, don't you think?

Maybe you could try to let go of some of the "lesser rules" altogether. If it's something you both want, like calling each other after your dates then you'll do it anyway, right? So you don't really need the rule. And if it's something only one of you wants and the other isn't able or willing to do, then maybe it's better to look for a compromise you can both agree to; thus making it an agreement and not a rule (although that may be semantics to you).
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  #25  
Old 10-02-2011, 09:52 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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. . . My other thread is about that.
I don't know what other thread you're referring to. I was answering this one.

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Originally Posted by cuddlecakes View Post
Maybe I should create another thread for people to criticize my girlfriend and me?
What the fucking fuck???
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  #26  
Old 10-02-2011, 01:19 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is online now
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Gosh, CC, in reading through this thread and seeing your rules and the rationales behind them, it seems to me you want to keep a really short leash on your gf and in ways that are somewhat unrealistic or a tad overbearing. It doesn't surprise me that she's broken them.

I think that if you two have agreed to be polyamorous and open, that there has to be some leeway for the unexpected to happen. You say you want information about what's been going on with a guy before she hooks up with him, so that you don't have any surprises because that feel like cheating to you. But how about the possibility that her life is her own and she doesn't need to report back to you every little flirtation that happens. AND instead of wanting some sort of insurance against surprises, accept that there will be surprises. Your feeling hurt by her spontaneously getting together with a guy without you knowing about it beforehand is totally on YOU. She is not hurting you; she is being herself and living her life while you are choosing to feel hurt by it.
Well... Cindie, I can actually relate to cuddles as far as that unexpected hookup his gf had, when she told him (cuddles) she just "happened to bump into" a guy from OKC, when the reality was, she was out clubbing with friends, texting with OKC guy all night, got drunk and met up with him at 3AM! I know I'd feel awful if miss pixi did something like that, and lied/downplayed it... "Oh, we just bumped into each other." When caught in that lie, "Oh, it wasn't a 2nd date, just a continuation of our first one." Yeah, right.
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  #27  
Old 10-03-2011, 02:35 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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. . . she told him (cuddles) she just "happened to bump into" a guy from OKC, when the reality was, she was out clubbing with friends, texting with OKC guy all night, got drunk and met up with him at 3AM! I know I'd feel awful if miss pixi did something like that, and lied/downplayed it... "Oh, we just bumped into each other."
Perhaps the rules feel so restrictive to her that she thought the only way to handle it was to lie, like being backed into a corner and not feeling like she has the freedom to be as open as she wants to be! When someone keeps breaking rules and apologizing, breaking rules and apologizing, over and over, obviously the rules don't work for that person. But a lot of times someone like that will agree to those rules because they're afraid of losing their partner if they don't. She hasn't stood up for herself enough in an assertive, direct way, but is clearly letting him know what she wants in a passive way. It sounds like she lied about it so as not to hurt his feelings, but she did the thing in the first place because she can't easily abide by his restrictions. I think some re-negotiations and assessment of what can be reasonably expected could help both of them.
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Last edited by nycindie; 10-03-2011 at 02:40 AM.
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  #28  
Old 10-03-2011, 05:02 AM
cuddlecakes cuddlecakes is offline
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Oh, Shannon has expressed a preference I don't sleep with any of their relatives (have to adopt a look but don't touch attitude here, a particular cousin is VERY nice to look at). It is not a "rule", but it is something I shall respect.
Is that just something that's been discussed verbally?

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A long list of rules would just be confusing.
Yes, unless you're lawyers or into Nomic.

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And sometimes rules are harder to follow for other parties.
That's a good point. Agreements can be asymmetrical.

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Originally Posted by rory View Post
I'm not sure the thinking "these are the rules we have set up and if they are broken, punishment will follow" is very useful or workable in relationships. If you want to have that, then you'll have to go through with whatever you want the punishment to be.
Agreed. But then what? You just state your... "wishes" and if the other person doesn't respect them, you.... talk about it?

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Maybe you could try to let go of some of the "lesser rules" altogether. If it's something you both want, like calling each other after your dates then you'll do it anyway, right? So you don't really need the rule.
Well, it has to be stated in some way or we won't know that we both want it.

(Yeah, that's certainly not a rule, just something we've agreed to do, and not even universally. "I won't be back until late, do you still want me to call after?")

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thus making it an agreement and not a rule (although that may be semantics to you).
This thread is intended to be about semantics; about the way we talk about and enforce rules/boundaries/agreements/whatever.
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  #29  
Old 10-03-2011, 07:48 AM
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sagency sagency is offline
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Rules, boundaries, blah deblahs. It seems you're asking about semantics, but you're talking about desires.

The simple truth is that people want different levels of rules (guidelines, boundaries, whatever). Sometimes those levels are pretty close. It sounds like you and your gf are not close on the desire-for-rules. I suspect some of your anxiety stems from this disparity. After all, if she wanted rules like you do, would you be her talking to us about semantics? No.

So you two have differing rules-desire levels. Thus is neither good nor bad. It's how you react to it that matters. Guess what? Getting anxious about rules... Not good. Forcing rules... Not good. But neither is abandoning rules.

The alternative to making rules is being clear about what you want, what you need, and how you feel to the point where your partner can accurately predict how you would respond to a situation. Then, if the partner is respectful, you likely have minimal problems. If your partner is not respectful, then the issue is either what you need versus what she can provide or the lack of respect. In order to be clear you must be proactive and speak in concrete terms. No hazy, wishy-washy bullshit. If you can't put into words what you need, then don't get your panties in a knot over not getting whatever mysterious thing it was you didn't articulate.

Frankly, it's not clear if you're actually willing to accept her having the freedom to be poly or open without your preconditions (rules, guidelines, consequences, procedures, methodologies, practices, instructions, charts, diagrams, etc.). It seems an awful lot like you're wanting more from her than she's giving you. It would follow then that trying to find ways to apply rules to her is a tactic to inject more control rather than just stating what you really feel. What is it that you actually want? What's the gap between where you are now and where you want ti be?
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  #30  
Old 10-03-2011, 08:32 AM
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rory rory is offline
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Originally Posted by cuddlecakes View Post
But then what? You just state your... "wishes" and if the other person doesn't respect them, you.... talk about it?
It's not a one way street, or it should be.

1. You communicate clearly what it is you want, and what it is you need. You need to tell her and she needs to understand what you mean. This alone doesn't obligate her to anything and you shouldn't expect it to. Your goal shouldn't be to try to control her. She will do what she most wants to do; but by expressing your needs and wishes you make sure she is able to take them into consideration.

2. She should express what she thinks about your needs and wishes. She doesn't have to agree to anything she doesn't want to. Are you expecting her to agree to everything? Do you ever take a critical look at your wishes; what motivates them? Is she allowed to do that? It is her responsibility to speak up, if she feels like a need/want of yours is such that she can't or won't do that. Otherwise she's being dishonest. However, it is your mutual responsibility to create an environment within your relationship where you both can do that.

3. If she doesn't respect your agreements (/rules), you should do a lot of thinking and talking around WHY. What part of the above process isn't working? Are you not clear in what you want/need? Didn't she understand you?

If your communication worked, did she expect herself to be able to do something and agreed, and then failed at that? That's called a mistake, which she should learn from and perhaps not make that agreement again. Or did she agree to something, she knew she wouldn't keep. That's called lying and you should be alarmed. If she lied, WHY is that? Is it because she is afraid of you leaving her if she voices her opinion? Is it because you expect her to always do everything you wish, i.e. she has to agree to everything? Or is it because she doesn't care about what you want or what you feel, has no respect for you, and only thinks about herself? Or some other option I didn't come to think about?

When you find out what the reason is, you can decide what to do about the issue. Some of them are things you can work on, some of them she needs to work on, some are common problems. Very possibly you both need to do some work to make it work. Good luck.
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