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  #461  
Old 09-30-2011, 09:12 PM
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BlackUnicorn BlackUnicorn is offline
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I've had to read quite a bit on D/s, and sympathize with both perspectives. Yes, it's fucking insane, and yes, some people honestly want it. The same goes for polyamory, perhaps?

A D/s relationship, even a 24/7 one, can on the outside look like nothing particular. Not everyone in M/s dynamic will be wearing collars, not everyone in a power exchange relationship incorporates elements of BDSM as in whips and chains into their life (that was a surprise to me). Those kind of relationships might resemble traditional patriarchal marriages , with the exception that gender doesn't predetermine role. It doesn't mean that the slave will never stand up for themselves - just that after hearing their arguments, the master will ultimately make the decision.

That said, most TPEs seem to have an hour a day or a similar safe space practice where roles are discarded for egalitarian communication and voicing of wants and concerns. What little I understand of submissive's needs is that they want to give up control of some or most parts of their life to another person whom they trust. It doesn't have to be sex - it can be stuff like finances/spending money, diet and health/exercise, self-improvement etc. It's from there on the top's/dominant's/master's responsibility to see that their partners needs are met in that area in the best possible way. I've even read that dominants understand that they don't have needs, only wants, and that they can but those aside to take care of the needs of another person. And subs are different, too - some take greatest pleasure in obeying their doms, especially in doing stuff they wouldn't normally do, others want to please their partner and bask in the approval and surprised delight, some relish the possibility of a simpler, more stress-free existence.

That said, in my relationship with VanillaIce, we are not really into roles, safewords etc. It's not roles for us, and thus creating a separate fantasyland we would need to depart from to have a frank discussion isn't needed - if somebody wants to stop, have a time out, or talk about something, they just open their mouths and blurt it out. Like in a normal relationship, if somebody in the middle of sex says "Stop, I need a breather", you stop and give them a breather. BDSM is not something I would do of my own volition, but I have devoted myself to my partner, including accepting, supporting and trying to cater to all of her needs, wants and desires.

Back to OP: are you under orgasm control? If so, then your gf is just a self-centered asshole and you really need to talk about lifting that.
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  #462  
Old 09-30-2011, 09:17 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Hey Nyc,

I didn't take issue with what you wrote, since you had the courtesy to make it about you, as in "I don't get it," not about me or the OP or the other people on this board and in our lives who practice D/s... which is what River did when he wrote "I can in no way see how a 24/7 role playing game of the D/s type should not be seen as pathological.There, I said it." True, it was technically an "I" statement, but seriously. I mean, "harsh."

We field questions here every day from anguished people on this board whose partners are hurting them and who aren't in D/s relationships. Carma and Sundance? Not doing D/s. If they were and everything else was the same, I imagine you might have a hard time considering the idea that the D/s was not necessarily to blame. But it's not. People are often assholes. Poly people, mono people, vanilla people, kinky people. It's a sad fact of life.

I suggested that the OP deliberately and fully step out of her D/s role with her partner for a discussion of this potentially relationship-breaking problem just to be absolutely, positively sure that it wasn't getting in the way here. I see no reason at all to assume it was causing the problem, since NRE and thoughtlessness are so sadly common.

If you want to better understand what it's all about, I can't think of a better resource to direct you to than this one: http://www.xeromag.com/fvbdsm.html
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  #463  
Old 09-30-2011, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
I imagine you might have a hard time considering the idea that the D/s was not necessarily to blame. But it's not. People are often assholes. Poly people, mono people, vanilla people, kinky people. It's a sad fact of life.

I suggested that the OP deliberately and fully step out of her D/s role with her partner for a discussion of this potentially relationship-breaking problem just to be absolutely, positively sure that it wasn't getting in the way here. I see no reason at all to assume it was causing the problem, since NRE and thoughtlessness are so sadly common.
I get all that and I agree assholes are everywhere. And that's why I said "It's the people in the D/s roles I wonder about . . . more than the roles themselves." Stepping out of it makes sense, although I wonder how much of the role you can just shed and turn off or on like a light switch, but the comment you made telling her to do that just made me wonder what the hell the benefit was in the first place if you have to make sure it isn't part of what's fucking things up. But I never said nor meant to imply that D/s was the cause of their problems, though couldn't it exacerbate them, just like poly can magnify problems in a relationship? (Though I do not like correlating the two. I see poly and any aspect of BDSM as vastly different choices from each other)

*sigh* Maybe I'm just babbling. I don't feel like I'm being very clear.

Thanks for the link, but I've got a whole e-book library about D/s, oddly enough, which I read here and there. It downloaded automatically when someone recommended a book to me and I found it in a zip file full of other stuff. And the reason it was recommended to me what that this guy thinks I would make a great Dominatrix. And that's not the first time it's been said to me, which perplexes me even more!!! I just feel like... nope, can't. LOL
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #464  
Old 09-30-2011, 10:02 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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I'm gonna post more about this on my blog later, so as not to continue to threadjack. One thing, though --

"but the comment you made telling her to do that just made me wonder what the hell the benefit was in the first place if you have to make sure it isn't part of what's fucking things up. But I never said nor meant to imply that D/s was the cause of their problems, though couldn't it exacerbate them, just like poly can magnify problems in a relationship? (Though I do not like correlating the two. I see poly and any aspect of BDSM as vastly different choices from each other)"

I've gotta say, I think you're being inconsistent here. You ask what the benefit of D/s is if it could be part of the problem, and then you point out that poly, too, can exacerbate problems in a relationship. Why add poly to a perfectly good marriage if it could end up being a problem? Why add sex to a friendship if it could end up being a problem? Because usually it's not a problem, usually it's *awesome* (at least when you're experienced enough to know what you're doing).

I think the comparison to poly is apt because both are relationship choices that the world at large finds confusing at best and disturbing or immoral at worst. It's true they're very different in other ways, but so are carrots and jogging, and yet I can make the comparison carrots are to candy as jogging is to lying on the couch. Metaphors can compare unlike things and still be valid.

Also, if you've read other sources and still feel you don't understand... and would like to understand... do at least consider the xeromag.com link. Veaux writes in an extraordinarily clear, relateable way and assumes not just lack of knowledge but active resistance, at least initially, in his audience.
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  #465  
Old 10-01-2011, 02:30 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by River View Post
Not being BDSM kinky myself (I'm pure vanilla, baby!) I can't help wondering whether this is uncommon treatment from a "top/dominant" toward a "bottom/submissive". I mean, where is the boundary between the BDSM dynamic and the ... well, everyday "vanilla" world?
A very short xeromag quote:
"But where do you draw the line? How much is too much?

You draw the line wherever you want to. There isn't one way to "do" BDSM, and not everybody is in to the same things."

To address your first conjecture first, no, it is NOT common for a dom to neglect and mistreat their sub, at least not any more than it is for people to treat their partners that way in other relationships... which is to say it happens more than anyone would like because people make mistakes and/or are assholes, but it's not the norm, *especially* not for experienced folks. But of course, as I said, there are exceptions.

As for the question of where the line is, which Veaux addresses, I'll elaborate just a little and say that for some people it's in the bedroom on rare occasions only. For others it's all the time everywhere (though that's relatively to very rare). And literally *every* other spot on the continuum between those two extremes is being practiced by some couple, somewhere.
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  #466  
Old 10-01-2011, 02:49 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
And to me, even if I were a submissive, I couldn't wait to say, "hold on we need to step out of our roles here so we can talk about this." I would want the freedom to speak my mind at the moment, no matter what role I'm supposed to be in, and confront shitty treatment right away. I don't think being in one of these power exchange relationships should preclude basic human rights to express ourselves and be treated with respect. If I were ever to want to try this kind of thing, it would certainly take a whole lotta trust in someone who had proven they were capable of handling this kind of responsibility before I'd ever even consider submitting to anybody.
I would say that in most D/s relationships subs can and do freely express any and all concerns. In some relationships, though, part of the dynamic is that the sub accepts things he or she wouldn't normally, or speaks with extra deference towards the dom, or says "stop, no, I couldn't poooossibly do *that!*" when he or she really *wants* to do just that, or engages in other mutually agreed upon and mutually desired behaviors that, potentially, inhibit the free flow of concerns.

But that doesn't mean the sub isn't free to express an overriding concern at any moment... as has been mentioned previously, that's what safewords are for. And minor concerns in those contexts can either be addressed with a milder safeword, like "yellow" for slow down instead of "red" for stop, or can be talked about at a different time.

Also, if shitty treatment of *any* regularity is a real concern, then you probably wouldn't have gotten to the point of mutual trust, knowledge of each other and respect where you would be doing the sorts of power exchange that might inhibit any type of expression.
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  #467  
Old 10-01-2011, 06:46 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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People use "safe words" in non-BDSM dynamics too, I would think - such as "Hon, there's something we need to talk about. PLease give me your undivided attention for a moment." It doesn't HAVE to be in the middle of sex, and it doesn't have to have anything to do with pain or power exchange.
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  #468  
Old 10-01-2011, 11:04 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
. . . usually it's not a problem, usually it's *awesome* (at least when you're experienced enough to know what you're doing).
^^^ This appears to be the key.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #469  
Old 10-02-2011, 12:40 AM
MichelleZed MichelleZed is offline
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D/s is essentially a game, right? People do it for funsies. Those that do it just in the bedroom are casual about their gaming, and those that "lifestyle" it are more hardcore gamers. That's how I think about it.

Not something I'm personally into, but I can see the appeal.
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  #470  
Old 10-02-2011, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by MichelleZed View Post
D/s is essentially a game, right? People do it for funsies.
From what I understand, the serious 24/7 D/s people do not see it as a game at all.
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The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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