Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > General Poly Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #451  
Old 07-29-2011, 04:57 PM
Lemondrop's Avatar
Lemondrop Lemondrop is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Rocky Mountains, USA
Posts: 305
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
What about " cutters" I don't know the medical term or the pc term ...but people ...mostly women who cut themselves or perhaps have others cut do it for them? ...done to feel good, feel the pain. How would you assist a love one in doing this?
Very, very carefully. Every time you break the skin you risk infection, and cutting can be hard to gauge the exact amount of injury you're causing--thus ending up with cutting too deep or causing more damage than you wanted. I am by far not an expert in this, but I was lucky enough to take a class. In the class, they used scalpels. The scalpels were sterile when they opened the package, and were used ONCE. The teacher sterilized the area where he kept his tools. He wore surgical gloves that he threw away if he suspected that they were no longer sterile. He sterilized the area of skin he was going to cut. Throughout, he was VERY VERY careful. None of us were allowed to cut a person during the class; instead, we all cut the skin of a tomato, learning how to put just enough pressure to cut while not digging in too deep. He even had us practice keeping our tools and area sterile, removing our gloves so that we didn't contaminate ourselves or our area or tools. It made quite an impression.

I don't know if it's like this where you live, but my local community hosts a lot of classes. I tend to think that any time something can cause a risk to your health, it's worth it to maybe take a class and get the benefit of learning from someone who has experience.
Reply With Quote
  #452  
Old 07-29-2011, 05:34 PM
redpepper's Avatar
redpepper redpepper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,634
Default

There have definitely been times when I have been uninterested in BDSM activities. At one point I was so not into it I couldn't believe I ever was. Almost stood outside of it and was fascinated. It came around. Its not much about sex for me at this point. It was before. It changes and morphs and is fluid, just like anything is in life I think.
__________________
Anyone want to be friends on Facebook?
Send me your name via PM
My blog
Reply With Quote
  #453  
Old 09-30-2011, 03:05 PM
River's Avatar
River River is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NM, USA
Posts: 1,894
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
She seems to be very inconsiderate and insensitive about your feelings, AND she's putting the onus on you instead of accepting responsibility for her actions and examining her behavior.
Not being BDSM kinky myself (I'm pure vanilla, baby!) I can't help wondering whether this is uncommon treatment from a "top/dominant" toward a "bottom/submissive". I mean, where is the boundary between the BDSM dynamic and the ... well, everyday "vanilla" world?
__________________
bi, partnered, available

River's Blog
Reply With Quote
  #454  
Old 09-30-2011, 04:32 PM
nycindie's Avatar
nycindie nycindie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Apple
Posts: 7,115
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
Regarding the D/s aspect, even people in 24/7 relationships need a safe space where they can step back from that dynamic and discuss things candidly as equals. Yes, I do believe in safewording for emotional/relational situations, not just sexual/physical ones. I think this is a big enough potential dealbreaker that you need to request that the two of step out of your D/s roles and work this out on egalitarian terms. Otherwise the power exchange might keep getting in the way of you really expressing what you need and her really hearing it.
Just makes me wonder what the purpose and benefit of a D/s power exchange really is. It bewilders me that anyone would find it life-affirming and healing in any way. I can see it if it's just some fun in the bedroom, but 24/7 and having to step out of a role to just to communicate like equals... simply... boggles... my mind! I think I'm gonna have to make a documentary about it just to learn more.

Sorry for the tangent.
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me. ~Bryan Ferry
"Love is that condition in which another person's happiness is essential to your own." ~Robert Heinlein
Reply With Quote
  #455  
Old 09-30-2011, 04:38 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
Custodian
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: new england
Posts: 3,221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Just makes me wonder what the purpose and benefit of a D/s power exchange really is. It bewilders me that anyone would find it life-affirming and healing in any way. I can see it if it's just some fun in the bedroom, but 24/7 and having to step out of a role to just to communicate like equals... simply... boggles... my mind! I think I'm gonna have to make a documentary about it just to learn more.

Sorry for the tangent.
This is one reason why "safe words" are used. It doesn't just mean "ouch! You spanked me too hard!" It also means "we need to step out of our roles for a bit and communicate as equals".
Reply With Quote
  #456  
Old 09-30-2011, 04:55 PM
nycindie's Avatar
nycindie nycindie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Apple
Posts: 7,115
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonKaos View Post
This is one reason why "safe words" are used. It doesn't just mean "ouch! You spanked me too hard!" It also means "we need to step out of our roles for a bit and communicate as equals".
Yeah, I totally get that part. I just don't understand the appeal in NOT being an equal in a relationship in the first place. That's what boggles me. That as a submissive you can't stand up for yourself and say you won't take bullshit anymore unless you call a time-out and negotiate that you may now speak. It just goes against everything I feel about treating another human being with honor and respect to put them in that subservient position, beyond a sexy bedroom game. I know it's real and the way people choose to live, and I've thought about it a lot, but I have a very hard time understanding the benefits.
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me. ~Bryan Ferry
"Love is that condition in which another person's happiness is essential to your own." ~Robert Heinlein
Reply With Quote
  #457  
Old 09-30-2011, 05:10 PM
River's Avatar
River River is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NM, USA
Posts: 1,894
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
... beyond a sexy bedroom game. I know it's real and the way people choose to live, and I've thought about it a lot, but I have a very hard time understanding the benefits.
I'm like you in this, nycindie. I can in no way see how a 24/7 role playing game of the D/s type should not be seen as pathological. There, I said it.

The very core of my thinking on loving relationships has power equality in it, as fundamental. And we all fall short of perfection in that realm from time to time. But we have a target we're shooting after, an ideal we may miss when shooting that way, and we have something to try for. Other things share the core of my thinking about loving relationships, things about kindness, compassion, tenderness, warmth, affection, emotional supportiveness and so on. These are all aspects of the multi-faceted loving heart. When the heart lights up these are all obvious. When it is dim, we're stumbling round in the dark.

And, yes, all of those "soft" values I listed have their strength aspect. Tenderness is strength, and tender strength is good. And strength without tenderness? It is (often) force, or exploitation, or oppression ... which is not good.
__________________
bi, partnered, available

River's Blog
Reply With Quote
  #458  
Old 09-30-2011, 05:38 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
Custodian
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: new england
Posts: 3,221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Yeah, I totally get that part. I just don't understand the appeal in NOT being an equal in a relationship in the first place. That's what boggles me. That as a submissive you can't stand up for yourself and say you won't take bullshit anymore unless you call a time-out and negotiate that you may now speak. It just goes against everything I feel about treating another human being with honor and respect to put them in that subservient position, beyond a sexy bedroom game. I know it's real and the way people choose to live, and I've thought about it a lot, but I have a very hard time understanding the benefits.

I was in a relationship with someone who had these boundary issues as a dominant. Those who can't keep this in perspective and think that a D/s CONSENSUAL relationship gives them the right to be an asshole are ASSHOLES and I don't even want to be in a NON D/s relationship with them. I fail to see the benefit in holding the D/s dynamic responsible for this kind of abuse, when folks who abuse it would suck at ANY kind of relationship. It's the same thing as saying "Sometimes polyamorous relationships are abusive, therefore I can't see any benefit to being in a polyamorous relationship 24/7."

"Sometimes people die in car accidents, therefore I cannot see any benefit to driving a car"

Ever heard the expression "Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater?"
Reply With Quote
  #459  
Old 09-30-2011, 06:40 PM
AnnabelMore's Avatar
AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,229
Default

Pathology is the study of disease. From the wiki, "In humans, "disease" is often used more broadly to refer to any condition that causes pain, dysfunction, distress, social problems, and/or death to the person afflicted, or similar problems for those in contact with the person."

Of course it's possible to do D/s badly. But for many people who practice it, it leaves them feeling more satisfied, happy, loving, whole and well-adjusted. How, then, can it be a disease? The key is the BDSM trifecta of "safe, sane and consensual."

D/s is not about a gloating dom taking advantage of a poor, confused and abused sub. The person in the dom position takes on a huge position of trust and responsibility. A good dom needs to be sensitive, caring and loving to their partner, and strives to give them what they want and need while recognizing them as a unique, beautiful and complex individual. And ultimately, the sub has just as much power as the dom, because they set the initial rules of how much they will give, what they want in return, and they can walk away or renegotiate at any time.

Ultimately, I think explaining D/s to a vanilla person is just as hard as explaining sex to an asexual person or poly to a die-hard mono. It's possible to understand it intellectually but if it's not for you then you're unlikely to ever *really* "get it". That's not meant as a judgment, just a fact.

So please, just try to accept that there's nothing inherently wrong with people who want D/s, whether it's in the bedroom or in the living room.

From xeromag.com (yes, the same guy who writes so brilliantly about poly has a big section on his site about BDSM):

"Uh-huh. Sure. The needs of the submissive. Right. The dominant is the one bossing the other person around; you'd have to be some kind of jerk to want to do that.

While that may seem like it makes sense on the surface, the truth is just the opposite. People who are good at dominating or inflicting pain are,in general, LESS likely than many other people to be jerks or assholes.

Why? Because in order to be good at doing it, you need to be highly in-tune with your submissive. People who are self-centered generally make poor dominants, because they lack the empathy required to be able to read and judge their partner's reactions, and bring their partner where that person wants to go. Assholes quickly find that nobody wants to play with them; and people who are empathic tend not to be assholes. All of the real top-notch dominants I've ever met, without exception, are incredibly cool people."

Obviously this is a subject that's near to my heart. In some form or another, I've been having queer fantasies, poly fantasies, and D/s fantasies since I was a young teen. I had a happy, healthy childhood, and I'm a happy, healthy adult who respects myself and other people. There is nothing wrong or sick about my desires.
__________________
The major players. Me, 30ish bi female. Gia, girlfriend of 4+ years. Clay, boyfriend/dom. Davis, ex/friend/"it's complicated." Eddie, roommate & fwb.
The supporting cast. Eric, Gia's husband. Bee, Gia and Eric's toddler. Dexter, Gia's lover. Helen, Eric's lover. Izzy and Nikki, Clay's partners. Liam, Eddie's husband.
Reply With Quote
  #460  
Old 09-30-2011, 08:47 PM
nycindie's Avatar
nycindie nycindie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Apple
Posts: 7,115
Default

Okay, Annabel, so to be clear, I wasn't saying D/s is sick or pathological, nor that there's something wrong with every person into it. That it isn't clear to me what the benefits are, certainly. No one's ever really been able to tell me how the dynamic enriches their life, beyond a leaning toward kinky behavior. That D/s goes against what I've been taught about to be respectful toward someone else, yes. I do not know how putting myself in a position that is below my partner will serve me. Yes, I can dig role-playing for sex, but I also know that this is a serious life choice for people. It's the 24/7 D/s that freaks me out. I just can't wrap my head around wanting to be a slave or putting someone else in charge of my life. The only reason I bring up how I am confused about it is so I can learn more, because it seems that I run into it everywhere there are poly people (which often frustrates me since I am not into it).

NK, regarding where you wrote, "I fail to see the benefit in holding the D/s dynamic responsible for this kind of abuse," I did not mean to imply that the dynamic was the reason that someone abused someone else. I know people can be cool and people can be jerks, whether in a D/s dynamic or not. However, I think that they had better be pretty damn balanced, emotionally well, and centered in themselves before getting into it. I've read many times here and there, however, that too many people in the dominant position don't know what they're doing or they abuse their position of power and do harm. Makes me wish there was a clearinghouse or something to make sure that the person you sign this sort of contract with has their head screwed on straight and understands and appreciates what a gift the submissive is giving them.

In the case of the OP, I questioned D/s in their situation not because of a blanket generalization about D/s (although I admit I find quite a lot of what I've read about D/s disturbing, I try to keep an open mind and I do acknowledge that people enjoy living this kind of dynamic, even though I don't understand it), but because of what appeared to me to be irresponsible and dismissive behavior of the OP's gf toward her. It's the people in the D/s roles I wonder about, especially the Dominant one, more than the roles themselves. See, the OP's situation is the kind where I wonder if one of the "players" (for lack of a better term) truly has the wherewithal to participate in such a dynamic without abusing the role they're in and potentially doing harm. Just like one could say to someone, "you're not cut out for poly," one could also say "you shouldn't be messing with D/s" if they're not willing to at least even look at their own behaviors. I mean, it seems like serious shit to me, and I'd think anyone would have to be on the alert for the emotionally bereft or disturbed individual (talking generally -- I'm not saying Gypsy's gf is disturbed, but that it seems she perhaps shouldn't be engaged in it if she won't act responsibly).

And to me, even if I were a submissive, I couldn't wait to say, "hold on we need to step out of our roles here so we can talk about this." I would want the freedom to speak my mind at the moment, no matter what role I'm supposed to be in, and confront shitty treatment right away. I don't think being in one of these power exchange relationships should preclude basic human rights to express ourselves and be treated with respect. If I were ever to want to try this kind of thing, it would certainly take a whole lotta trust in someone who had proven they were capable of handling this kind of responsibility before I'd ever even consider submitting to anybody.
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me. ~Bryan Ferry
"Love is that condition in which another person's happiness is essential to your own." ~Robert Heinlein
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bdsm, d/s, dominant, fetishes, metamours, poly, relationships, sex play, submissive

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:05 PM.