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  #11  
Old 09-16-2011, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neegoola View Post
p.s. i finish telling "biancarosa e rosella" by Grimm in the poly-way:
the bear changed into a wonderful prince after the course was broken and he married both sisters that he loved so much
i mean, who is this prince' brother coming up at the end, who has ever seen him?! why should rosella marry a perfect stranger while biancarosa keeps on flirting with the friend they hosted and enjoyed during the whole winter time?!!
I like the idea of changing stories when we tell them to children. But children can be SOOOOOOOO conservative!
If they've already had the story read to them a few times in its usual way and you try to change a single detail, they often protest: "NO NO NO! That's not the way it goes..."
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  #12  
Old 09-16-2011, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by naughty View Post
what a great thread! thank you for posting this. I will happily be looking into the above mentioned ones to read to my girls

you mentioned stereotyped sexual roles. might you also be interested in stereotyped gender roles? if so, there are some themes in the paper bag princess by Robert Munsch that might be relevant to what you are looking for. Its about a princess who rescues a prince, and then when she finally does realizes that her dignity is more important than the prince is and she runs off into the sunset by herself. The target age range is younger children...

as a side note, I think its great that you are writing stories that challenge (is that right word? i don't know) the dominant cultural idea of one true love solving all your problems. I wish you the best of luck in your writing
I'm in 2 minds about The Paper Bag Princess (Story by Robert N. Munsch; Illustrations by Michael Martchenko) Although the challenging of gender roles is excellent and it portrays a princess who can look after herself very well, thank you very much... it includes a cunning trap (set by the princess) which displays a dismaying lack of ecological awareness. (She tricks the dragon into burning 150 forests with its fiery breath, thus exhausting its fuel supply.) I've Googled it and it can be found (although I'm not sure that this is the whole text: there seem to be bits missing; also the wonderful illustrations are missing) at http://cculc.ccu.edu.tw/pdf/paper.pdf

To answer your original question:
Quote:
might you also be interested in [challenging] stereotyped gender roles?
In general I'm VERY interested, but there are quite a lot of excellent stories doing that. [Have a look at the Zipes book just for starters. It contains 3 sections: stories for younger readers, stories for older readers, and essays about fairy tales. It also includes a bibliography where you can find LOADS of stories - and novels - that challenge stereotyped gender roles.] So - back to your question - in order not to swamp this thread with recommendations about challenging stereotyped gender roles, I'd like to keep it about culture for children that challenges stereotyped sexual dynamics (and hope that poly-friendly stories for children will be pointed out to me).

And thanks for the side note!
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If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.
- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence
The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.
- old Chinese proverb
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin
I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson
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  #13  
Old 09-16-2011, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
I like the idea of changing stories when we tell them to children. But children can be SOOOOOOOO conservative!
If they've already had the story read to them a few times in its usual way and you try to change a single detail, they often protest: "NO NO NO! That's not the way it goes..."
yes that's it!
when my kids were very young they asked me many times to invent a story and next they were asking me to repeate them word by word!

concerning that Grimms tale i quoted as changed by me in the final part, well... i somehow "asked" to my kids something like:
"don't you agree with me that it's not nice that the prince is obliged for morality to chose one and leave the second one to a kind of stranger to her?! the prince same says for hte whole story that he loves both sisters who are so kind and generous and beautiful.."
well, in italy i'd say: ho giocato sporco... that doesn't mean cheating, really.

with Pinocchio by Collodi often i absolutely had to "translate" while reading to the kids the original text changing or omitting some very heavy sentences born from our severe Middle-age
but this has nothing to do with the main thread.
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  #14  
Old 09-17-2011, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neegoola View Post
well, in italy i'd say: ho giocato sporco... that doesn't mean cheating, really.[/SIZE]
No, no... just playing dirty!
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If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.
- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence
The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.
- old Chinese proverb
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin
I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson
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  #15  
Old 09-18-2011, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
No, no... just playing dirty!
ok, i try to recover... :
yes, i do not want to hide certain "things" to my kids (well, they are no more kids, they both passed their 11th birthday now), but, in general, i don't even want to "form" completely their ideas in a direct, theorical way: they SEE me in my life, i think that's more important than LISTENing.
what i'm trying to say is that i often try to give them the opportunity of knowing (so that they'll be able to chose at a certain point) suggesting clever solutions instead of strongly despising their opposite.
sameway, i did not give them a religious formation, but a spiritual pagan example; up to them in few years if to ask christian baptism or join bards in the North or anything else..

maybe it goes bit out of topic (but if i have it right it doesn't), but i re-discovered this song (that i vaguely reminded from my childhood)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkNhaRtAFTE
and it's another different example of lovingchosing
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  #16  
Old 09-18-2011, 01:04 PM
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MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neegoola View Post
well, in italy i'd say: ho giocato sporco... that doesn't mean cheating, really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
No, no... just playing dirty!
For those of you who don't understand Italian, I want to point out that I wasn't criticising neegoola (wouldn't dream of doing so). I probably should have added a, a, a, or a to make that clear. She wrote "i'd say: ho giocato sporco". That translates as "I've played dirty". Then went on: "... that doesn't mean cheating, really." I was just sharing the joke.
__________________
If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.
- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence
The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.
- old Chinese proverb
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin
I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson
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  #17  
Old 09-19-2011, 10:24 AM
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neegoola neegoola is offline
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i worked a bit in telling my kids that the original version of Cinderella really seeded the sense of sacrifice within women till amputating parts of their body.. you remember it?

"Cinderella made more catastrophes than Mother Mary" i heard few weeks ago coming out from a christian woman mouth. i think i agree.

umpf...sorry, today i don't have any positive proposal, just bit of nihilism for undirect constructivness..(does this word exist?!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
I was just sharing the joke.
p.s. mrFFR, for me everything was clear from your first exlamation mark "no, no, just playing dirty!"
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  #18  
Old 09-19-2012, 10:24 AM
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Breaking my own rules here, but I'm so excited by this news that I'm spreading the word as much as I can: "Bésame Mucho" has been translated into English!!! More info: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showt...253#post154253
__________________
If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.
- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence
The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.
- old Chinese proverb
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin
I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson
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