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  #11  
Old 05-13-2009, 07:49 PM
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I think it is unhelpful toward one's emotional and spiritual / psychological health to have "just sex" with people--that is, sex without bonding and openning into intimacy and tender feelings and all that. Sex is inherently bonding. It is intrinsic to sex that it is so. So my advice is to avoid having "just sex" without bringing your heart along for the ride. If you're not going to be making love with another, I recommend making love with yourself--either with your right or your left hand. It will avoid all of that messy emotional entanglements -- no worries!
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  #12  
Old 05-14-2009, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRiverMartin View Post
I think it is unhelpful toward one's emotional and spiritual / psychological health to have "just sex" with people--that is, sex without bonding and openning into intimacy and tender feelings and all that. Sex is inherently bonding. It is intrinsic to sex that it is so. So my advice is to avoid having "just sex" without bringing your heart along for the ride. If you're not going to be making love with another, I recommend making love with yourself--either with your right or your left hand. It will avoid all of that messy emotional entanglements -- no worries!
I agree, but is it easier for men to have "just sex"?? Don't get me wrong, sex with people that you love and care for is SOOOOO much more fulfilling, but as young guy, I was able to just fool around to get my jollies off. I guess it was more about the physical need. When I'm hungry a peanut butter and jelly sandwich will fill me up even though that steak is really what I want. Make sense?

I don't want to suggest that just satisfying your need for sex is the right way to go, but was just putting it out there. I agree with JRiver that keeping to yourself would probably help the potential for the "messy emotional entanglements"
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  #13  
Old 05-14-2009, 01:48 PM
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Danny,

I felt a little uncomfortable when saying what I really felt in my above response to this thread. I felt "old fashioned" and prudish a little bit--or that I may be taken that way. The truth is, these questions are tricky, and maybe no one has the right answer. But the perspective I offered, I think, deserves consideration for any merit it may have.

I've had beautiful and nurturing/nourishing brief sexual encounters on a few occasions--brief as a night. I was disappointed each time when it turned out that my partner of the moment wasn't interested even so much as talking with me in the morning or sharing coffee.... Once time I was with this delightful man with whom I had a profound energetic/psychic sort of connection verging into mystical stuff. We both felt our heart chakras open to one another, and even talked about it, comparing notes. We both felt the same thing! The next morning he was gone, though we slept arm in arm. He hadn't left the scene--a large, mostly outdoors, social gathering of queer men lasting days--, but he wouldn't come near me. I moved through it gracefully, but the truth is it did hurt ..., and this sort of thing has happened to me a number of times; much more than I would have liked.

A lot of gay/queer men (but it is true of many heteros, too) don't heartfully honor the power of sex -- which is a power of union and bonding, of tenderness and love and spiritual openning. There appear to me to be many risks in failing to acknowldge this power in sex, and one of them is that we can severely hinder or restrict that magic by mistreating it. We mistreat that magic when we fail to look very closely at what sex really is. We fail to look, often, because we think we know what it is. That is, we fail to recognize the mystery dimention in sexuality. A mystery is something we cannot fully understand in concepts: it's bigger than all of our conceptual categories. Sex is a mystery if ever there was one, and therefore needs to be treated as sacred.

That is, all sex is sacred sex, whether the pratitioners realize this at the moment or not.

I'm talking this way now because these points were driven home strongly for me recently (beginning a year ago). I fell in love with one of my best friends, who subsequently abandoned our friendship. We had been sharing a lot of kisses. He's an eleven on a chart of 1-10 as a kisser! We had a little sex. We held hands, talked intimately, literally slept together, etc. It was great! But, for him, this wasn't all half as much a bonding experience as it was for me. Then his boyfriend found out about what had been going on between "R" and myself. My boyfriend was fine with it, but R's boyfriend was very, very upset. (I figured those two were breaking up, or I wouldn't have gotten involved without his boyfriend's knowledge, but I don't want to go into all that in detail in this already long post.)

Anyway, losing both R's intimate friendship and our loverly friendship all at once was devastating for me, emotionally. (I'd have been okay to lose the sexy intimacy if the friendship had continued.) It was also a great emotional and spiritual challenge for me. And out of that challenge I have learnd a lot--, largely because it catalyzed a deep inquiry into freindship, love, sex, bonding, relationships... and all that sort of thing.

Among the things I have realized is that good kisses (and other sexual contact) are pure emotion. People thinking otherwise just don't know how to examine the question! You cannot get naked with someone and rub body parts and not be intimate in a profound way!, and that's an emotional intimacy--whether we realize that and recognize it or not. The amazing thing is that so many don't realize it! --in fact, very many seem to have their hearts severed from their genitals (and other errogenous zones), so to speak. Well, nothing can sever a person in such a hideous way unless it is traumatic. So, hidden away in a LOT of "casual sex" is an emotional/spiritual trauma -- and an emotional/spiritual opportunity. Sacred.

All relationship is sacred. Holy.

Failure to honor and recognize the mystery of this is a sort of abuse and misuse which may lead to further trauma and more wounding of the soul.

Last edited by River; 05-14-2009 at 02:00 PM.
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  #14  
Old 05-14-2009, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRiverMartin View Post

That is, all sex is sacred sex, whether the pratitioners realize this at the moment or not.
If I had of read this statement a year ago I would have completely disagreed. Now that I have connected with myself and explored my sexual nature (which was not anything like I thought it would be) I completely agree with you.

The only caveat would be in that I accept that it might not be "sacred" for other people as we see it. There is no right or wrong in my opinion, just acceptance that people work differently and that is what makes this world interesting and a little tricky to navigate.

Thank you for opening up on this post, JRM.
I am touched by your honesty and willingness to share to the benefit of others.
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  #15  
Old 05-14-2009, 04:17 PM
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JRM, I will agree with Mono and thank you for opening up. I'm not sure that I completely understand your perspective, but I'm always open to listen and learn.
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  #16  
Old 05-14-2009, 06:56 PM
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What I do and do not mean by "sacred":
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showt...=1027#post1027
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  #17  
Old 05-14-2009, 07:21 PM
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Thank you JRM!! Don't know you but you're AWESOME!
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  #18  
Old 05-14-2009, 07:34 PM
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Thanks!
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  #19  
Old 05-14-2009, 08:15 PM
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JRM....that was an awesome post......it's amazing how many people don't "get it" when it comes to the passion and the emotion of sex and the connections that we forge with kissing or other bodily touches.....I've watched people give their spouse a hug without ever really even touching! How is that possible? I could go on and on, but again thanks for opening up and stating so well what so many of us feel.
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  #20  
Old 05-15-2009, 06:48 AM
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has your fiance had experience in this before I wonder? It sounds like she has given it a lot of thought and has rationalized how it would benefit you and her. Maybe she really thinks this is a good idea? It certainly may lead to a poly lifestyle along the lines.. how would you feel about that?

In my experience with swinging there is a rule that men are not allowed on there own to such events... women are, but not men, they must come with a female partner. I don't know if that is the same in your area, but it might be a heads up.

Being poly I found it difficult not to care about the people I met and met a couple again after the night we met at a swinging party. I found it more comfortable to be with people I know rather better rather than someone I had just talked about the weather with for a half hour.

The lack of communication in the swinging community was difficult for me and it made talking about safe sex difficult too.

Being such a good communicator I prefer the poly option. You sound like a good communicator vintersorg and I wonder what your experience would be to be on your own in such a possibly highly overwhelming environment. Who knows, you may just love it too!!!
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