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  #71  
Old 09-01-2011, 06:45 AM
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redpepper redpepper is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
How is the other thread a possible history of polyamory?
It didn't mention poly no... poly history started similarly it seems. That is what I meant.
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  #72  
Old 09-01-2011, 06:10 PM
MorningTwilight MorningTwilight is offline
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Originally Posted by TruckerPete View Post
Have to disagree with you, here. (And NYC's similar sentiment; can't be bothered to multiquote on iPad.)

I do believe it is possible for someone to choose to be poly, structure their relationships in a poly fashion, or identify as poly. However you'd like to put it.

But there are some for whom it is not a choice. What proof do you want? Well, me. Unless you are referring to choosing poly over cheating or serial monogamy for the rest of my life. That's about the only choice I have over how I deal with falling in love ALL THE FRICKIN' TIME.
What she said. My choice was to try to bottle it up and repress it and stuff this square poly peg into a round mono hole (please excuse the language--I didn't intend for it to be dirty), and it made me intensely unhappy, guilty, and ashamed for a long time.

For me, being poly is every bit as much a wired orientation as someone else being wired gay or lesbian. "Coming out" to me has the same significance--and the same relief--as it does for someone who was closeted and trying to live unhappily as a straight person.

I readily admit that, as with sexual orientation, poly vs. mono probably has a spectrum: some are hardwired mono, some could choose to live either way, and some are hardwired poly.
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  #73  
Old 09-07-2011, 01:30 PM
trueRiver trueRiver is offline
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Originally Posted by MorningTwilight View Post
...
I readily admit that, as with sexual orientation, poly vs. mono probably has a spectrum: some are hardwired mono, some could choose to live either way, and some are hardwired poly.
I'd go with that. I identify as hardwired polyflexible.

Poly is me, I am poly, but not to the extent that I am unable to commit to mono and then keep to it...

Thank you to all the people who have contributed to this thread: I have had to think about this carefully, and that has been useful. If you think I have changed position during this thread, well, I think I have too


And from earlier in this thread:
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Originally Posted by booklady78 View Post
The comparison that comes to mind is the reluctance of some of the gay community to accept bisexuality. There are gay folks out there, for whatever reason, who do not readily accept bisexuality. Lets not forget a few of the ignorant heterosexual crowd who believe bisexuals are just "confused" and haven't made up their minds yet. The community strives for acceptance because they still face a great deal of prejudice. Showing the world how "normal" they are perhaps means rejecting some of the variation that comes with sexual identity. It's sad really and I don't know what the solution is.
Let's not have any of this amongst poly people? We can accept those who are poly, polyflexible, by identity and those who feel it as a conscious choice, surely? None of these is "better" than any other, nor are any of us "better" than mono peope. Just different.
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  #74  
Old 09-07-2011, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by trueRiver View Post
Let's not have any of this amongst poly people? We can accept those who are poly, polyflexible, by identity and those who feel it as a conscious choice, surely? None of these is "better" than any other, nor are any of us "better" than mono peope. Just different.
Well THAT would be nice ! I think they call that 'Live, and let live.'
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  #75  
Old 09-07-2011, 05:17 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Well THAT would be nice ! I think they call that 'Live, and let live.'
I call it "minding my own fucking business" but that's because i'm negative and cynical and hypercritical, and don't any of you ever forget that.
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  #76  
Old 09-07-2011, 05:28 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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... and don't any of you ever forget that.
How dare you order me around.
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  #77  
Old 09-07-2011, 05:35 PM
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I call it "minding my own fucking business" but that's because i'm negative and cynical and hypercritical, and don't any of you ever forget that.
Of the choices available, I`d rather be the hypercritical one, then the hypocrite.

I`m negative and forgetful, so you`ll have to keep reminding me.
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  #78  
Old 12-23-2011, 04:26 AM
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I assume everybody's seen Franklin Veaux's Non-Monogamy Diagram.

My apologies if this is a repeat.
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  #79  
Old 09-17-2013, 12:04 PM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default I hope there is a divide

Amen.

Awomen.

Otherwise how do you tell the difference from the assholes/bigots/mindfuckers from the ones who aren't?

LOL

But seriously,

Seriously, everyone knows right from wrong, and those who claim they don't, are full of shit. Unfortunately with the internet, it is extremely easy for one person to give the appearance of an overwhelming, convinving, dominant majority

fuck them, let them live in their fantasy realm, let them divide a community if they feel like it. You cannot stop people from making a conscious decision to choose wrong when there is a right way to behave

What I am talking about is universal, and it doesn't only apply to mono or poly, or non-monogamy or any dynamic of relationships (intimate or not) or people as islands with as close to zero interactions like Tom Hanks with his buddy Wilson

For instance, when someone told you

" that the only reason that they hung out with me was because there is no one else to hang out with... that small communities have to manage on their own and those that are in them just kinda have to put up with each other "

I would consider that person an asshole as I assume you are using ellipsis properly and there is nothing missing from the jist of it. I can think of very few situations where I would not consider that person an asshole, we all have days when we can be mean, spiteful, and rude. If they didn't come back and make amends there would be very few people I would tolerate that sort of behavior if done on a regular basis.

If he wasn't trying to be funny, I would consider that being an asshole, I would not feel obligated to tolerate his presence and if he was part of a group I "hung out with" if I couldn't completely avoid him during meetings I would seriously consider not associated with the group.

It is not going to be an easy transition from underground to being able to live as you choose without hiding it. It isn't wrong to not want to get involved as it will undoubtably invite much negativity into your life. So it isn't recommended to be out loud and proud unless you are brave and well supported. The way that everyone can help is by doing nothing more than speaking out when you witness persecution or affliction by anyone simply because a person is poly (or LGBT or any person who is being wrongfully discriminated against) You might find yourself having to make some tough decisions that you wouldn't have to make if poly were to stay underground. Some people like dysfunction, it's their comfort zone and it's convenient, but it doesn't stop them from bitching about the dysfunction and pretending to hate it

It's my view that it is the right move to work towards polyamory no longer being persecuted, such persecution is nearly identical to the unrecognized hatred known as racism. It's wrongful discrimination, it's bigotry, and yet there may always be places in the world where it's tolerated just like there are places in the U.S. that tolerates community racism.

Poly people that don't want poly to be legally/socially acceptable (ie no longer persecuted) are not bad, but they become a problem when they interfere with the process of obtaining equal rights. Hopefully there will not be many polies who work against the rights movement, but there will probably be a few.

Of those polies who want to keep it underground, you may find some who desire that because, if it wasn't for the need to be underground, you wouldn't "have to hang out with them" . They may be poly but racists, they're poly but cannot help being bigoted towards LGBT. I hope that those who are like that, would be able to learn why it is not OK to treat others like that, but you cannot force them, and it's not your fault nor any communities

it won't fun if you have to cut people out of a group, or secede from the main group, but it may be necessary if you cannot come to some sort of agreement about respectful behavior

there is a huge difference between people with different beliefs who show respect for the opposition and those who refuse to be respectful. People are not always honest about their intent, and sometime rules need to become more and more detailed which usually happens before a split. It doesn't matter how details and explicit laws can be written, when it comes to treating people with respect it simply cannot be enforced. There will always be motherfuckers who refuse to be respectful and employ the use of subtlety to communicate there disrespect. People have been abusing languages since humans first began communicating. There is a difference between employing subtlety and speaking with words you don't say because the speakers are oppressed, and when it's done because the speaker is a coward and simply doesn't want to be responsible for being an asshole/bigot

It's been my experience with these types of situations that trust is necessary, honesty plays an important role. It is not worth the time and effort into making more and more rules and having to enforce said rules by moderating/policing so I find people with integrity who honor their word ideal to work with, no matter what their beliefs. Conversely people who are dishonest will never be helpful, not even with shared beliefs

As far as the poly and cheating thing goes, they are just that, cheaters. I guess they could be called "poly cheaters" but is there really that much difference between a mono cheater and a poly cheater?

Languages usually don't waste much time labeling things past the lowest common denominator, they would just be called "cheater" and not "middle-aged male hetero brunette brown-eyed HWP poly cheater"

As for the whole "is poly an orientation?"

fuck that, don't even go there because it doesn't matter, that would be to get dragged down into the realm of bigotry. While it is extremely sad that people can be so full of hatred that the only way they will treat others with respect is if it is not a choice, that is exactly the mentality that has kept the world stuck in hell as opposed to earth.

It's been almost 250 years since The United States Constitution was written and we have dragged our feet at the dispensation of the rights for all citizens, nearly 250 years since those brave men and women fought, sacrificed, died, and won the Revolutionary War and then Civil War.

Remember there was a Civil War, so while it's always good to hope for the best, it is almost inevitable that there will be gnashing of the teeth for some, but that no reason not to continue on

I have no choice, many of us are committed to carrying on, and we will

It is sad, but if everyone minded there own fucking business since the the human races first appearance, think of how much evil would still be tolerated in the world

just like most everything, there is a wrong way and a right way to mind your own fucking business, and people who use that the wrong way should not be catered to

in my humble opinion

Last edited by Dirtclustit; 09-17-2013 at 01:32 PM. Reason: typo
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  #80  
Old 09-22-2013, 06:00 PM
EdmCouple EdmCouple is offline
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So much information and opinions here. A great read all the way through.
I am going to try and summarize a few things here, please feel free to correct me if I have missed the mark.
There seems to be different camps or schools of thought on the subject of poly and what is or is not poly.
It seems to me that some people are of the opinion that any non monogamous relationship is poly, where others, purists so to speak only accept poly in its defined form. This I understand as I am a car guy and a Pontiac purist, which means that I only think real Pontiac were built before 1981 when the were equipped with Pontiac engines. In fact I jokingly call 1982-2002 firebird cross dressing camaros (no disrespect meant to crossdressers). Essentially a Pontiac is only a Pontiac in original form. This being said, I have nothing against the other car guys and really respect them as such. My thing just is not their thing.
The whole kids vs no kids, we'll to each their own. We have kids. Have friends that both have and have not. We really don't care if someone does or does not. Think it would be pretty shallow to choose people based on that. You would miss many opportunities to meet and get to know good people. Sounds silly to me.
In closing I would like to say that I hope the mere semantics of the meaning of a word would not cause a rift in a community like this. The mutual support and information shared here is valuable. Especially for new folks like us.
Thank you to all members here, enjoy reading and learning.
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