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  #101  
Old 09-03-2011, 06:44 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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What TR said...

And is GC under the impression that you are seeing only him? Have you explicitly, in words which were said aloud, agreed to be monogamous with him? If so, you need to address that as soon as possible.

Is that why you think GC would be hurt that you have other lovers? Or other reasons?

Finally, do your other involvements know about GC? If they don't, it would be a courtesy to tell them, especially if the relationship with GC evolves into something serious. I'm juggling a marriage and two lovers and have found it very helpful that everyone knows about everyone else.
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  #102  
Old 09-03-2011, 09:58 PM
trueRiver trueRiver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
...is GC under the impression that you are seeing only him? Have you explicitly, in words which were said aloud, agreed to be monogamous with him?
I think we need to be aware that in the mainstream culture, just agreeing to be in a relationship is taken to mean exclusivity. Given that we know that, we do have more of a duty to disclose other relationships.

Let me give an analogy. You turn up at a restaurant, your table is not yet available, and the maitre d' ushers you into the waiting area. Would madam like a drink while waiting? Yes please.
Now, nothing was said about paying for the drink. Was it complimentary (as the table was late), or does it get added to the bill? If you don't check at the time, you cannot refuse to pay because the culture of restaurant usage is that you pay for all food and drink supplied, unless stated otherwise.
Or, still at the restaurant, you get to the end of the meal and you leave. When accused of dishonesty, you say, correctly, all these nice people kept asking what I wanted, nobody asked me to promise to pay.

So, I think there is an ethical push towards being explicit about being poly, as soon as you get around to behaviour that implies exclusivity to most folk in that setting. I think the original post makes clear that this has already occurred, and I would not go along with the idea that it is OK just because words were not said.
Quote:
...
I'm juggling a marriage and two lovers and have found it very helpful that everyone knows about everyone else.
here I agree totally. You will be more comfortable with all these people once you are not keeping something back from them.
That may lead to an ultimatum: choose them or me. Even so, that is better than continuing with something that would hurt the person if they later found out.
It may also lead to an outright rejection. If so, them being with you now is based on false assumptions -- it is not the real you they are with but a sanitized fake made by their assumptions. Again, though rejection is never comfortable, I personally would rather be rejected as the real me than continue to be accepted on the basis of a misassumption.

And you may get really lucky: they may be ok with the idea; even if it is not their ideal scenario, they may be content to allow it to continue.

So yes, my advice is to go for full disclosure of all current ongoing situations.
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  #103  
Old 09-03-2011, 10:12 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe View Post
He is all I am interested at the moment and likely for some time to come. I'm not looking, I'm very happy now and am pretty sure he has never even heard of polyamory.
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Originally Posted by wannabe View Post
Since things got serious with GC both Rob and Matt are more interested. They have both been important to me and I don't want to simply drop them, I could probably continue a sexual relationship with them and it would not affect how I feel about GC.
The above two statements are rather incongruous with each other. This seems to be a conflict and I'm unclear on what it is you want.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #104  
Old 09-04-2011, 05:43 AM
wannabe wannabe is offline
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Yes, fair enough NY it does seem a little odd, let me try to explain.

Rob and Matt are more interested in me...I have pretty much no interest in being sexual with them, for the moment anyway.

However as they have been in my life for a while now, it wouldn't feel right to simply cut them off cold. Hypothetically, if i did sleep with them i suspect it would not change my feelings for GC...but im really not that interested.

So why would i even consider it? Well because I think its important to maintain relationships in general, and also because in my experience causal lovers have stuck around longer and been less painful than relationships. I do realise its somewhat of an avoidant pattern and am trying to take the leap with GC to get out of this pattern. Its hard and a bit scary...
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  #105  
Old 09-04-2011, 05:52 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe View Post
Rob and Matt are more interested in me...I have pretty much no interest in being sexual with them, for the moment anyway.

However as they have been in my life for a while now, it wouldn't feel right to simply cut them off cold.
Hmm. Well, logically, if you don't want to have sex with someone - you don't. Nothing confusing there. It doesn't mean they have to be cut out of your life coldly. You can still maintain friendships with them. I think that part is pretty simple. All relationships change with time and I think that anyone involved in casual, primarily sexual relationships are aware that their partners may find people to get serious with and that they should be prepared for the idea that a sex partner entering into something more committed emotionally with someone else would naturally change things.

As far as GC goes, yes, I think it's important to be upfront and honest with him sooner rather than later. "Hey GC, you know, I'm really enjoying what we have and I'm not pursuing any other relationships, but I wanted to talk to you about the possibility of leaving that option open. How do you feel about that?" Also fairly simple. I come from the "say it directly" (but with compassion) school of thought on things like this. I would think that, emphasizing that it is a long-distance relationship would help in explaining the practicality of keeping your options open.
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The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 09-04-2011 at 06:22 AM.
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  #106  
Old 09-04-2011, 06:01 AM
wannabe wannabe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
What TR said...

And is GC under the impression that you are seeing only him? Have you explicitly, in words which were said aloud, agreed to be monogamous with him? If so, you need to address that as soon as possible.

Is that why you think GC would be hurt that you have other lovers? Or other reasons?

Finally, do your other involvements know about GC? If they don't, it would be a courtesy to tell them, especially if the relationship with GC evolves into something serious. I'm juggling a marriage and two lovers and have found it very helpful that everyone knows about everyone else.
Yes, to be clear, GC would have an expectation on monogamy. As noted by TR, although it has not been explicitly stated by either party its somewhat of an accepted norm. Until poly is more widely known anyway

I do agree that I **should** be telling everyone everything. Note that GC is very long distance, Rob is in a different county and Matt lives a few hours away, I'm dithering because there no practical impetus to tell and sort it out. Again no excuse, I know what I should do here.

GC: is very far away, its very new and has likely never heard of poly. For the moment I'm not seeing or sleeping with Rob or Matt. Would telling him complicate or clarify?

Rob and Matt: Matt knows I've met someone special but I have not indicted that this means I want to be exclusive with new guy. Rob is in a theoretically mono-marriage (clearly he isn't), I dont ask him about his relationship with his wife. Telling Rob/Matt that I'm in a relationship is likely to signal to them that I no longer want to see them. Maybe I'm just not ready to finalise that decision yet.

FYI There can be several months between the times I see either Rob or Matt, even up to half a year.

Rob and Matt don't know about each other, I doubt either would be particularly bothered about it. Its simply never occurred to me to tell either about the other. Funny that...
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  #107  
Old 09-04-2011, 06:11 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe View Post
GC: is very far away, its very new and has likely never heard of poly. For the moment I'm not seeing or sleeping with Rob or Matt. Would telling him complicate or clarify?
I very rarely, if ever, use the words "polyamory" or "polyamorous." It's just too confusing for too many people. Most everyone understands talking about exclusivity, though. I just tell people, "I'm not looking for exclusivity," or "I'm not comfortable with exclusivity right now," and use that as a springboard for discussion.

If he asks if you have anyone in mind, tell the truth: "There are two guys I've been involved with in the past, who are still in my life, and although I don't desire getting involved with them again right now, I don't really want to cut off any possibility for the future, if it feels right."
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The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #108  
Old 09-05-2011, 02:06 AM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
"There are two guys I've been involved with in the past, who are still in my life, and although I don't desire getting involved with them again right now, I don't really want to cut off any possibility for the future, if it feels right."
Seriously, just cut and past NYCindie's entire message. Good language there.

Rant ahead!

I have to take issue with this agreeing to date=we are now a monogamous couple IF NO ONE SAYS SO OUT LOUD. Pardon the shouting but this really tweaks me. Not you, specifically, Wannabe, but this ridiculous convention in general. If there are no actual words in a discussion, there is no actual agreement - just assumptions that can be interpreted any which way by the people involved. People interpret silence however they want. And this leads to miscommunication, sometimes lying, and pain and hurt all around. This convention needs to die and, Wannabe, I hope you take a stab at its heart.

Rant over.
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  #109  
Old 09-05-2011, 02:36 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
Rant ahead!

I have to take issue with this agreeing to date=we are now a monogamous couple IF NO ONE SAYS SO OUT LOUD. Pardon the shouting but this really tweaks me. Not you, specifically, Wannabe, but this ridiculous convention in general.
Yeah, actually it's usually the other way around. How many times have we heard, "But we never said we were monogamous, right?" This is the stuff sitcoms are made of! Remember when Carrie discovered Mr. Big on a date? She had no reason to assume he was only seeing her. I think it's more common that, unless you agree to exclusivity, it is not automatically assumed!
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #110  
Old 10-24-2011, 05:16 PM
3rdwifenow 3rdwifenow is offline
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Default How do you bring it up?

I am currently on my 3rd marriage. My first two ended in disaster. I love my wife and children dearly and do not want to be with out them in any way. I also have an appetite for other women that I suppress.
our sex life was great when we first met, but as usual life gets in the way of our relationship and she seems uninterested in us and the needs I have. We still have fun together and when we have sex it is wonderful but I want and need more.
I have considered bringing up an open relationship with her but not sure that it would go over very well. How do you bring this subject up? and then how do you bring it up to the third party that is involved and etc?
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