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Old 03-10-2011, 11:23 PM
Daylily Daylily is offline
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Question Why can't she just admit she is jealous?

I am relatively new to all of this, but not long ago I fell unexpectedly into a relationship with a married man (he did at the time and still does have an open relationship with his wife). This all happened over a matter of a very few months. Things seemed to be going well in the beginning, though lack of time and, due to our family situations, the lack of anywhere to meet privately was and remains a strain. We had several overnights at hotels, in the beginning, about every other week (4 times) for the first couple months, then that stopped, but I put it off on holiday stress and confusion. We attended a weekend event in Feburary, but other than that have not been able to have a full night together since November.

I knew there were issues with his wife concerning overnights and he was told that she was uncomfortable because she didn't know me as well as she would like. She and I talked and that was clearly not the case, she just had issues with overnights....and I got the impression she had issues with the whole relationship. So we all met and talked and her response to the why no overnights question is, "I don't do overnights so he shouldn't either." There was further discussion that kept coming to the same dead end, but it was very apparent to both me and my partner that this excuse was merely a way for her to shield herself from dealing with whatever her true feelings are. They have had a good bit of discussion about her feelings and he knows she is not being very open about a lot of this. I understand that this happened quickly and she never expected it to get as serious as it did, especially not so fast, and she has problems with it, but how can we address the problems if she will not even try to get a handle on exactly what she is feeling. I don't think I should have to deal with erroneous limits without some kind of rational explanation, or at least the assurance that she will acknowledge and work to identify her feelings and try to deal with them.

Their relationship has a very long, strong history and it was never my intention, nor his, for me to come between them. I am realistically, in no way, a threat to her or their relationship, but I think she feels, on some level, that I am. I have been told she is extremely stubborn as well which makes discussions difficult. Is there anything more he or I can do or say to get her to acknowledge that there is a problem and to realize she has to at least try to work this out? How can we make her understand that just because she ignores it or makes rules to try to avoid the feelings, they are not going to go away, but rather cause more resentment and problems for everyone?

I must also add that she is comfortable with the things we do when alone and we do not overstep any boundaries in that regard. In fact she is fine with us getting a hotel room and staying as late as 3am, but not a second longer, which is also hard for me to comprehend. We are also not asking for much, ideally 2 nights a month, but I would take about anything I could get right now. I also need to know if these things should be discussed just by the two of them alone or should I have some part in it as well.

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Old 03-10-2011, 11:45 PM
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MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
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We all have to realise that we're dealing with human beings... and human beings aren't really outstandingly honest with themselves let alone other people when it comes to their emotions.

I know, I know, that's all so easy for me to write and as glib as you like, but you're suffering here, and what kind of useful advice can I give?

You write: "he was told that she was uncomfortable because she didn't know me as well as she would like. She and I talked and that was clearly not the case". Does she like you? Do you get on generally? If so, why not spend some time with her, work on that relationship, build up some trust? If your reaction is "I can't spare the time", consider that she might feel "I can't spare my husband".

In any case, this is going to need patience. That doesn't mean sitting around doing nothing, waiting for her to change her attitude. It does mean don't expect her attitude to change very quickly.

I wish the best for all of you. Keep us posted...
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Old 03-10-2011, 11:58 PM
Daylily Daylily is offline
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Point well taken and I am doing just that. It has been difficult logistically, with distance between and my responsibilities as a single mom, but although there is some awkwardness on my part we seem to get on fine. I am working on getting to know her better and helping her feel more comfortable with me.

Last edited by Daylily; 03-11-2011 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:17 AM
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Mohegan Mohegan is offline
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It may not have anything to do with jealousy. I am not comfortable with overnights, for myself or Karma. I feel as husband and wife, our place at night is in bed together. I don't care how late he stays out, but when it comes to bed time, we're together. This isn't set in stone, if someone were to enter our lives to point that they truly were a part of our family, I may feel differently. I usualy had no problem when he stayed the night with our wife and I was home alone. It was because she was family.

I think you just need to give her time. If she says it's because she doesn't know you well enough, that may really be it.

It may be other stuff as well. But I know personaly, it bothers me when people read to far in to what I've said. I am a very literal person, if I said it, that's what I mean, not whatever you think is in between the lines. I don't write in between lines.

Now maybe she does, I dunno, I don't know any of you. But I just wanted to share something from the other side.

If you're right, and she just hasn't faced some things, give her time. Ask what she needs. And don't assume you know what is best for her, or how she should handle things. Not saying you are, don't take it that way, more of a don't let it start going that way in your frustration.

Cricket and I had a lot of issues because we assumed we knew how the other was feeling and why. Instead of talking and asking questions, we both went on with our assumptions and put Karma in the middle. Try to keep lines of communication with her open on your end.

Good luck!
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Old 03-11-2011, 01:51 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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I don't have an issue with overnights as long as they are kept to nights where it isn't infringing upon the kids or work obligations.

However, Maca does and always has. His rule is no overnights if he's available to sleep with me (ie if he works out of town I can sleep with bf all I want). Therefore, there hasn't been an overnight between GG and I in more than 6 months, closer to 12...

And it's only been 18 months since we became poly.


I think it's crappy that people don' work on themselves, but as Mr. said above, most people aren't honest with THEMSELVES so working on themselves is a hell of a lot to ask. First they have to learn that they aren't honest to themselves, then HOW to be, then start to be all before they can actually work on themselves...
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Old 03-11-2011, 02:34 AM
Vinccenzo Vinccenzo is offline
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I've ran into it where a rule my husband was first to insist on was assumed to be a rule I made by who he was seeing. It wasn't a helpful assumption.
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Old 03-13-2011, 06:15 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
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Default Likely not real jealousy

Hi DayLilly,

Some other folks have given some good feedback I see also that what you are dealing with is really not jealousy. There could be a number of other valid reasons involved.
Mohegan for example mentioned that there's a certain bond that happens between people that might want to dictate that you at least wake up together to start your day. For example, if you were all living in the same home it could be far less of an issue. Even if not "in the bed" you'd be there to greet each other for the new day Make sense ?

There's other possibilities too - family/societal things. Are there kids involved ? How complicated does it become for her to continue to lie about why "daddy" didn't come home last night ? Other family members that might be popping in unannounced early in the morning ? Neighbors ? See what I'm getting at ? She's in a position where she has to run cover for him although she approves fully of where he is. Most of us don't like being in the role of liar even though we can't honestly get to live the way we'd choose.

So be patient and understanding. I can totally understand where you'd want the same luxury she has but circumstances don't always cooperate with our wishes. Embrace those special time you DO have together, make the most of them, and over time things may change to allow you more flexibility.

Hard not to be selfish when we are drunk on NRE

GS
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:28 PM
Vinccenzo Vinccenzo is offline
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Was this a rule that she put in place after you began seeing her husband or was this a rule they made prior to meeting anyone?
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Old 03-14-2011, 02:52 AM
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I would suggest just leaving it for now. Everything changes as time goes on. The time isn't right yet. I think I would accept the compromise for now and make it known that this is a compromise... there will be further negotiation as you all go along, but for now there is no set boundary. Then keep at communicating what you would like to accomplish, at a pace that seems appropriate and respectful to all involved. You will need to realize that you will have to meet half way as they will have their own idea about what is comfortable. Enjoy your time and work on achiveing a place of acceptance and comfort for all.
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Old 03-14-2011, 03:43 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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I concur with the others that overnights with a new sweetie are a big step, and can be a challenge to the primary. I've felt this myself and it took some time to come to terms with my feelings of overnights.

However...:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daylily View Post
...They have had a good bit of discussion about her feelings and he knows she is not being very open about a lot of this. I understand that this happened quickly and she never expected it to get as serious as it did, especially not so fast,
That's what NRE will do. Things do seem to move so quickly when you really click with a new person. It can feel quite challenging and even threatening to the primary.

Quote:
...and she has problems with it, but how can we address the problems if she will not even try to get a handle on exactly what she is feeling. I don't think I should have to deal with erroneous limits without some kind of rational explanation, or at least the assurance that she will acknowledge and work to identify her feelings and try to deal with them.
Her limits might not be "erroneus," and she can only come to terms with her husband's new relationship and desire for its deepening, in her own time, according to her own comfort. I understand your eagerness for her to deal with this more quickly.

Quote:
I am realistically, in no way, a threat to her or their relationship, but I think she feels, on some level, that I am. I have been told she is extremely stubborn as well which makes discussions difficult. Is there anything more he or I can do or say to get her to acknowledge that there is a problem and to realize she has to at least try to work this out? How can we make her understand that just because she ignores it or makes rules to try to avoid the feelings, they are not going to go away, but rather cause more resentment and problems for everyone?

I must also add that she is comfortable with the things we do when alone and we do not overstep any boundaries in that regard. In fact she is fine with us getting a hotel room and staying as late as 3am, but not a second longer, which is also hard for me to comprehend. We are also not asking for much, ideally 2 nights a month, but I would take about anything I could get right now. I also need to know if these things should be discussed just by the two of them alone or should I have some part in it as well.

Thanks
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